SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Gustav_Graves wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Samuel001 wrote:

Quite. This is the new way the films work and have done since GoldenEye. 'Old Bond' is dead, long live the future.

Though many may hate to admit it, Fiennes isn't getting paid this much to just appear at the beginning and end. I mean, he's RALPH FIENNES. He is obviously going to appear a lot in the coming films. That would be like paying Daniel Day Lewis $50,000 for only a two minute cameo. EON will get their money's worth with Ralph, meaning he will continue to be like Judi's M and appear largely in the future films.

Not so sure. Certain famous actors do you like to have a small recurring role in a movie franchise. They see it as an honor. Look to Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman in Batman.

Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman didn't have minor roles at all. They appear in a great part of the trilogy. A minor role would be only appearing in a scene or two, not being instrumental in the plot and being major allies to Bruce in all the films.

Gustav_Graves

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

What point are you trying to make here?

Gustav_Graves

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

What point are you trying to make here?

Sorry....but basically my point is: Famous Oscar heavy actors doesn't necessarily ignore minor roles, as how they were written in the final screenplays. I remember Gwyneth Paltrow loved to be in a movie from Steven Soderbergh. She got the 'ungrateful' part of Beth Emhoff in 'Contagion', where she was almost immediately killed after only 7 minutes into the movie. But Paltrow didn't mind :-).

TheWizardOfIce

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

Yeah but Caine and Freeman still probably have more screen time in the Batman films than Bernard Lee in all his Bond films combined.

M works perfectly in DN where he just gives Bond the mission. In OHMSS he works well again even though he is in it more but because he still stays in the office instead of galavanting around the globe or constantly being in Bonds ear on a mobile.

But the fact is Ralph will continue the Dench ubiquity as they seem to like this habit of having a heavyweight in the role and then flogging it more than they should.

I would really like to see Ralphs M and Dan do the Blades bridge scene from MR though if M is to be given a bigger role. Never going to happen of course - bridge is far too complicated for the masses to understand.

ultrabox

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

Yeah but Caine and Freeman still probably have more screen time in the Batman films than Bernard Lee in all his Bond films combined.

M works perfectly in DN where he just gives Bond the mission. In OHMSS he works well again even though he is in it more but because he still stays in the office instead of galavanting around the globe or constantly being in Bonds ear on a mobile.

But the fact is Ralph will continue the Dench ubiquity as they seem to like this habit of having a heavyweight in the role and then flogging it more than they should.

I would really like to see Ralphs M and Dan do the Blades bridge scene from MR though if M is to be given a bigger role. Never going to happen of course - bridge is far too complicated for the masses to understand.

I was also thinking that that would be a good intro to Ralph's M. Have him be prominent in the introduction, involved in the early plot and giving the mission then he could fade to the background. It would also give a good contrast to Dench's motherly M role, Bond and M being chummy, over drinks and cards.

echo

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

I think if the story demands it (a la Skyfall or even TWINE), then there should be more M.

Gustav_Graves

echo wrote:

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Let me put it like this then. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine weren't playing leading roles in Batman. Judi Dench in 'Skyfall' was in a lead role though. That's the difference.

I think if the story demands it (a la Skyfall or even TWINE), then there should be more M.

Yes, but that's why I think the story/screenplay should be focussed on the crime syndicate that is the central theme of the movie: SPECTRE or QUANTUM and on a possible return of Blofeld. This time it should really be a mission for Bond only, without too much interference of 'M' during the movie. A bit like what happened in 'Thunderball'. So I really hope John Logan can deliver ánd actually stays faithful to what he said late 2011: "Bond should always fight Blofeld..."

Gustav_Graves

So, here is that list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of March 6th 2013:

17 mentionings --> 'Gunbarrel back at the start'
11 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office'
10 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)'

---

09 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
07 mentionings --> 'James Bond in the snow/Ski scenes'
07 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)'
=================================================================
07 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
06 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding the Bond girl at the end'
05 mentionings --> 'Escapist locations, smarter use of it'
05 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights'
04 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase'
04 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM'
04 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
03 mentionings --> 'Bring back SKYFALL-crew, including director Sam Mendes'
03 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
03 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
03 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
03 mentionings --> 'Wodka Martini, shaken......not stirred!'
02 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate S.P.E.C.T.R.E.'
02 mentionings --> 'Bring in new/previous crew, including director Martin Campbell'
02 mentionings --> 'A straightforward Bond adventure'
02 mentionings --> 'Less CGI that is too obvious'
01 mentionings --> 'A Gala Brandt story arc'
01 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets'
01 mentionings --> 'A villain-/ally-mixup, like in FYEO'
01 mentionings --> 'A dinner with the villain (Dr.No/Kamal Khan)'
01 mentionings --> 'Better use of Monty Norman's James Bond Theme'


Short summary so far: Forummembers in here are ready for a slightly more traditional Bond film. One that off course oozes Craig's charisma on screen, but that now is predominantly focussed on the villain's scheme, sans revenge. Traditional elements like the gunbarrel at the start, better use of Felix Leiter, a more simple mission briefing at MI6, Bond bedding the girl at the end and more lush locations are welcomed.

Moreover, a possible return of Blofeld/great henchwoman/SPECTRE/QUANTUM, in a new revived kind of way, could attribute to the familiarity/recognizability of the 24th Bond film. Concerning crew, there's a strong desire to bring back David Arnold, but at the same time we want to stick with Sam Mendes as director and Roger Deakins as cinematographer.

Concerning action, the 24th Bond film could still add trendsetting moments and at the same time be smarter and more jawdropping. A new, more dangerous kind of ski-chase and/or (Formula 1) car-chase are frequently mentioned as examples of such. A 'winter Bond film' is welcomed.

What is your TOP 5? Keep updating please :-).

NapoleonPlural

1) Gunbarrel at start

But only if it's done right. The only Craig one I thought was ok was in CR! When he bulks up, he can't turn so fluently, he looks bloated! Film it before he bulks up. And have him at a distance, like in the first three Connery films.

2) Different look to film

With Deakins out, this may happen. Though would Deakins really have to go, surely he needs a job and isn't tied to Mendes?

That said, I felt his look was a bit too mellow and not like an action film, it's too elegaic for my tastes.

2b) Different locations and visuals

A crisper, wintery feel for a winter themed Bond film. Snow, yes, little of London this time, Moscow (still not used for a Bond film, even Fleming had it in FRWL) or New York. Maybe even set it at Christmas.

3) Know when to surround Craig, and when to leave him alone

He is a bit like Hugh Grant to my mind, he can't quite carry a film, there's a hollowness there, he needs an ensemble cast to shine and bounce off, as with Layer Cake and SF. He needs people to take the mickey out of a bit. But don't have them too much, or he gets crowded, like Harrison Ford in Crystal Skulls.

4) It's not all about Bond

But how he reacts to the plot, so more screen time for the villain and more interaction between them. Because surely, the first three Craigs, he's hardly shared the screen with the villains much. Even in the casino game, it's the game with Le Chiffre rather than any real dialogue. Ditto Greene, and same with Silva - they share screentime probably, what 13 minutes. I really don't think they had recognisable personalities.

5) Big, overblown finale in a foreign location

Get the army in, the Yanks, like a Thunderball finale, nuking it out.

Oh, I'd also make the whole thing less self-referencing.

chrisisall

L-) All this wot he said.

RC7

NapoleonPlural wrote:

1) Gunbarrel at start

But only if it's done right. The only Craig one I thought was ok was in CR! When he bulks up, he can't turn so fluently, he looks bloated! Film it before he bulks up. And have him at a distance, like in the first three Connery films.

2) Different look to film

With Deakins out, this may happen. Though would Deakins really have to go, surely he needs a job and isn't tied to Mendes?

That said, I felt his look was a bit too mellow and not like an action film, it's too elegaic for my tastes.

2b) Different locations and visuals

A crisper, wintery feel for a winter themed Bond film. Snow, yes, little of London this time, Moscow (still not used for a Bond film, even Fleming had it in FRWL) or New York. Maybe even set it at Christmas.

3) Know when to surround Craig, and when to leave him alone

He is a bit like Hugh Grant to my mind, he can't quite carry a film, there's a hollowness there, he needs an ensemble cast to shine and bounce off, as with Layer Cake and SF. He needs people to take the mickey out of a bit. But don't have them too much, or he gets crowded, like Harrison Ford in Crystal Skulls.

4) It's not all about Bond

But how he reacts to the plot, so more screen time for the villain and more interaction between them. Because surely, the first three Craigs, he's hardly shared the screen with the villains much. Even in the casino game, it's the game with Le Chiffre rather than any real dialogue. Ditto Greene, and same with Silva - they share screentime probably, what 13 minutes. I really don't think they had recognisable personalities.

5) Big, overblown finale in a foreign location

Get the army in, the Yanks, like a Thunderball finale, nuking it out.

Oh, I'd also make the whole thing less self-referencing.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

FromCanadaWithLove

NapoleonPlural wrote:

1) Gunbarrel at start

But only if it's done right. The only Craig one I thought was ok was in CR! When he bulks up, he can't turn so fluently, he looks bloated! Film it before he bulks up. And have him at a distance, like in the first three Connery films.

2) Different look to film

With Deakins out, this may happen. Though would Deakins really have to go, surely he needs a job and isn't tied to Mendes?

That said, I felt his look was a bit too mellow and not like an action film, it's too elegaic for my tastes.

2b) Different locations and visuals

A crisper, wintery feel for a winter themed Bond film. Snow, yes, little of London this time, Moscow (still not used for a Bond film, even Fleming had it in FRWL) or New York. Maybe even set it at Christmas.

3) Know when to surround Craig, and when to leave him alone

He is a bit like Hugh Grant to my mind, he can't quite carry a film, there's a hollowness there, he needs an ensemble cast to shine and bounce off, as with Layer Cake and SF. He needs people to take the mickey out of a bit. But don't have them too much, or he gets crowded, like Harrison Ford in Crystal Skulls.

4) It's not all about Bond

But how he reacts to the plot, so more screen time for the villain and more interaction between them. Because surely, the first three Craigs, he's hardly shared the screen with the villains much. Even in the casino game, it's the game with Le Chiffre rather than any real dialogue. Ditto Greene, and same with Silva - they share screentime probably, what 13 minutes. I really don't think they had recognisable personalities.

5) Big, overblown finale in a foreign location

Get the army in, the Yanks, like a Thunderball finale, nuking it out.

Oh, I'd also make the whole thing less self-referencing.

Thank you for not saying Blofeld, too! This is a solid list.

The franchise needs to keep doing something new, now rehash what it has already done.

Gustav_Graves

Different look to the film? Please no. What we need now is some continuity if you ask me. Both in acting and (visual) style.

So adding a rejuvinated Blofeld will immediately make Bond 24 a cheap rehash? That's bullocks. Look what Nolan did to 'The Joker'. You can create a perfect new Blofeld that is suitable to today's political environment. Not necessarily the cat stroking gay guy, but a more dangerous, sinistre kind of man.

thelivingroyale

I think there are two options for Blofeld.

1) Bring back the film Blofeld but make sure he isn't a parody of himself (and that he isn't too camp like in DAF).

2) Use one of the novels as inspiration (I'd love to see a Blofeld close to the YOLT book on the big screen).

If you're going to create a brand new Blofeld and change him so much that he doesn't resemble what's come before at all, then you may as well just make a new villian.

Gustav_Graves

thelivingroyale wrote:

I think there are two options for Blofeld.

1) Bring back the film Blofeld but make sure he isn't a parody of himself (and that he isn't too camp like in DAF).

2) Use one of the novels as inspiration (I'd love to see a Blofeld close to the YOLT book on the big screen).

If you're going to create a brand new Blofeld and change him so much that he doesn't resemble what's come before at all, then you may as well just make a new villian.

I agree with you here :-).

Gustav_Graves

Keep posting your TOP 5's please :-).

Skyfail

Hey guys I am new here :)

I joined because I felt something needed to be said, something so important that many overlook

Bond 24 MUST HAVE BETTER ACTION MUST .Skyfall's action was subpar at best .There was no sense of threat and intensity in the action

Gustav_Graves

Skyfail wrote:

Hey guys I am new here :)

I joined because I felt something needed to be said, something so important that many overlook

Bond 24 MUST HAVE BETTER ACTION MUST .Skyfall's action was subpar at best .There was no sense of threat and intensity in the action

Thanks for your remark, but do you think you can make a TOP 5?

Skyfail

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Skyfail wrote:

Hey guys I am new here :)

I joined because I felt something needed to be said, something so important that many overlook

Bond 24 MUST HAVE BETTER ACTION MUST .Skyfall's action was subpar at best .There was no sense of threat and intensity in the action

Thanks for your remark, but do you think you can make a TOP 5?

Not at all :)
But please elaborate exactly what I need to touch on

HASEROT

NapoleonPlural wrote:

Though would Deakins really have to go, surely he needs a job and isn't tied to Mendes?

do you honestly think Deakins is hard pressed for work??... LOL ... the man is arguably THE master at his craft.

Gustav_Graves

Skyfail wrote:

Gustav_Graves wrote:

Skyfail wrote:

Hey guys I am new here :)

I joined because I felt something needed to be said, something so important that many overlook

Bond 24 MUST HAVE BETTER ACTION MUST .Skyfall's action was subpar at best .There was no sense of threat and intensity in the action

Thanks for your remark, but do you think you can make a TOP 5?

Not at all :)
But please elaborate exactly what I need to touch on

Your TOP 5 of elements Bond 24 must have, to even undo those tiny bit of negative reviews 'Skyfall' got.

Skyfail

Ok,
Let me start of by saying that I felt Skyfall pales in comparison to the previous two superior predecessors.
1. The action is VERY VERY VERY VERY BLAND .There is no sense of excitement or thrill or pain or suspense with it. They have too get better action sequences.
2.No Thomas Newman he doesen't get the feel of Bond, Bring back David Arnold!
3.Get rid of that useless costume designer Jany Temime and get Craig a solid good hair cut
4.More escapist glamorous lpcations
5.A film that doesn't have a mournful quality

Gustav_Graves

Skyfail wrote:

Ok,
Let me start of by saying that I felt Skyfall pales in comparison to the previous two superior predecessors.
1. The action is VERY VERY VERY VERY BLAND .There is no sense of excitement or thrill or pain or suspense with it. They have too get better action sequences.
2.No Thomas Newman he doesen't get the feel of Bond, Bring back David Arnold!
3.Get rid of that useless costume designer Jany Temime and get Craig a solid good hair cut
4.More escapist glamorous lpcations
5.A film that doesn't have a mournful quality

So...now your input for Bond 24 please :-)?

Skyfail

Hey Gustav!
Uhm.. isn't the above already my input for Bond 24 ?

QBranch

1) Obviously a well designed gunbarrel at the start- or at least somewhere in the PTS.
2) Bond doing some solid investigating like in DN.
3) As many others here have said- a dynamic snow action scene.
4) No Aston Martin- we've had one in every film since GE. Bond can take the Lotus for a spin.
5) Bond beds the girl in the climax.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

I like your number 2, @QBranch. I love when Bond goes into his rooms in DN and FRWL most notably and searches for bugs of any sort. That was seen a tad again farther down the line in OHMSS where Bond checks his room while at Piz Gloria, but it isn't in the films close to enough. Just to see a few seconds of Dan's Bond looking around and rummaging through the room for bugs or traps would be spectacular.

M_Balje

From

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Pictures/Pictures/BondQuantum54.jpg

http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0094.htm

http://smashmaterials.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/shadow-wallpapers-10.jpg

to



http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0066.htm







As said before: With one litle trickerfinger will you bring to other side of the world.

The transport should be usefull. I like the way of using in QOS.

QBranch

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

I love when Bond goes into his rooms in DN and FRWL most notably and searches for bugs of any sort. That was seen a tad again farther down the line in OHMSS where Bond checks his room while at Piz Gloria, but it isn't in the films close to enough. Just to see a few seconds of Dan's Bond looking around and rummaging through the room for bugs or traps would be spectacular.

Exactly. I miss that, as they're not actions specific to the mission, but rather something a spy would do just out of habit. Also, I'd like to see Bond scan around a bit when he enters a crowded room, and see how he sets up an escape plan.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

QBranch wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

I love when Bond goes into his rooms in DN and FRWL most notably and searches for bugs of any sort. That was seen a tad again farther down the line in OHMSS where Bond checks his room while at Piz Gloria, but it isn't in the films close to enough. Just to see a few seconds of Dan's Bond looking around and rummaging through the room for bugs or traps would be spectacular.

Exactly. I miss that, as they're not actions specific to the mission, but rather something a spy would do just out of habit. Also, I'd like to see Bond scan around a bit when he enters a crowded room, and see how he sets up an escape plan.

He did a bit of that in Skyfall at the Macau casino.