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Most dramatic shift in tone between Bond films?

Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
edited November 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 2,722
Is it between FRWL and GF? Between OHMSS and DAF? Between MF and FEYO? TLD & LTK? DAD & CR?
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  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    edited November 2012 Posts: 803
    Those are all pretty significant. I guess the top two for me would be:

    1. The shift between From Russia With Love and Goldfinger, which really started the character's transition away from being a spy/assassin and more into superhero territory. and,
    2. the shift between Die Another Day and Casino Royale, which seemed to shift the character more toward the character found in Fleming's books.
  • dchantrydchantry
    Posts: 278
    first one for me is YOLT to OHMSS.
    FRWL to GF is just more humour, both quality films but same Bone in character and tone.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,171
    Heads up for you folks.
    This is not news. Moved to Bond movies. But I'm betting a similar discussion already exists on this subject.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Thanks Benny. Im Still getting the hang of this (brilliant) forum.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    dchantry wrote:
    first one for me is YOLT to OHMSS.
    FRWL to GF is just more humour, both quality films but same Bone in character and tone.

    I can't really imagine Bond from Dr.No or FRWL ponsing about with a duck on his head.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    doubleoego wrote:
    dchantry wrote:
    first one for me is YOLT to OHMSS.
    FRWL to GF is just more humour, both quality films but same Bone in character and tone.

    I can't really imagine Bond from Dr.No or FRWL ponsing about with a duck on his head.

    Ha, yeah, I remember reading ages ago an author stating that the Bond franchise changed when the ejector seat was used in Goldfinger. It was perhaps the first outright laugh in any Bond film and while iconic it altered the course of the series with a heavy focus on gadgets and outlandish sequences. When Bond was strapped up with the propulsion unit at the climax of TB he said 'and the kitchen sink' and it was Terence Young's way of poking fun at what the series had developed into from its relatively humble beginnings.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Moonraker has to win simply for having the biggest shift in tone within the film (and back and forth repeatedly!!)

    But seriously, going from OHMSS to DAF has to be the biggest change in tone
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    But seriously, going from OHMSS to DAF has to be the biggest change in tone
    I agree that was a huge shift in tone; I don't know as it was any greater than the shift in tone between A View To A Kill and The Living Daylights, however.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited November 2012 Posts: 2,722
    I think within the actors eras it's TLD into LTK (the former written with Moore in mind, the latter clearly with Dalton) and maybe to a lesser extent for Moore MF into FYEO...I still feel MF isn't quite as ridiculous and FYEO not quite as tough as everyone says. I do agree that FRWL into GF is a decent shift but maybe a bit more gradual as the film progresses (kind of similar to FYEO) whereas LTK is immediately...drug dealers cutting out dudes hearts like it's scarface all of a sudden!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Die Another Day - Casino Royale would be my choice. It's almost like chalk against cheese.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Die Another Day - Casino Royale would be my choice. It's almost like chalk against cheese.

    I think I'd probably have to go with this too. Bond parasurfing next to Bond getting his balls flogged. Visually and narratively so disparate it's unreal.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 13,356
    I feel sorry for the kids who wanted to see 'the new James Bond film'!
  • MaxRebo120MaxRebo120
    Posts: 136
    ''You Only Live Twice'' - ''On Her Majesty's Secret Service'' - ''Diamonds Are Forever''
    ''A View to a Kill'' - ''The Living Daylights''
    ''Die Another Day' - ''Casino Royale''
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2012 Posts: 28,694
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    Those are all pretty significant. I guess the top two for me would be:

    1. The shift between From Russia With Love and Goldfinger, which really started the character's transition away from being a spy/assassin and more into superhero territory. and,
    2. the shift between Die Another Day and Casino Royale, which seemed to shift the character more toward the character found in Fleming's books.
    Bond wasn't a superhero type at all in GF. I don't understand why people try to make
    that argument.

    DAD to CR would be a good choice here, as well as OHMSS and the bad excuse for a Bond film that tarnished it, DAF.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    The first thing I thought of, was after From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. Connery goes from serious and ruthless, to almost jovial and phlegmatic and such an increase in humor, that was quite strange so soon after the last release, and dare I say it, yes, appeared boring quite often. Goldfinger is strange a release in that respect, as Connery once again became fun again for Thunderball from what I remember

    OHMSS to Diamonds would be another example, and it wasn't just a change in Bonds or the sudden rise in age difference. (Lazenby 29, Connery 41 I think), there were so many other elements, at least OHMSS was mostly believable

    And of course, A View to a Kill, to Daylights. By god, you wouldn't believe they were merely two years apart or next to each other in order of release. Could be the biggest shift, but Royale and Die Another Day before it, have to be up there also
  • ElliotCarverElliotCarver
    Posts: 249
    OHMSS ended with Bond's wife shot dead in cold murder. DAF started with a copy of Blofeld sliding into a giant pile of poo.

    Yeah.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,390
    Agree that it is OHMSS to DAF. Whatever possessed Connery to play the PTS so lightly?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,360
    This.
    563946_442010762503192_1539347863_n.jpg

    To This.
    06%20blofeld.jpg
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Yes, it was bizarre, in retrospect or in general, that Blofeld would one time be as Pleasance resembled it, then the Charles Gray version so soon after. Savalas was merely in between, but at least still looked plausible after the Pleasance version. And did Savalas' Blofeld even have a cat that year ? You can't have Blofeld without a cat, and lo and behold, in 1969, they didn't even give him one ?

    There was some serious messing about and changes being done back in the time..
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,360
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    Yes, it was bizarre, in retrospect or in general, that Blofeld would one time be as Pleasance resembled it, then the Charles Gray version so soon after. Savalas was merely in between, but at least still looked plausible after the Pleasance version. And did Savalas' Blofeld even have a cat that year ? You can't have Blofeld without a cat, and lo and behold, in 1969, they didn't even give him one ?

    There was some serious messing about and changes being done back in the time..

    Yes, Telly's Blofeld did have a cat. In his introduction scene when he answers the phone. It's very brief but it's the only time the cat is seen.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    No wonder I didn't remember it..

    Was that a 'Cat Cameo' maybe

    Must have taken one look at Bunt and ran for the hills..
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,360
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    No wonder I didn't remember it..

    Was that a 'Cat Cameo' maybe

    Must have taken one look at Bunt and ran for the hills..

    It was found 40 years later. :))
    tumblr_lwwn7zN0rP1r29lfwo1_500.png
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    1. Moonraker to For Your Eyes Only
    2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service to Diamonds Are Forever
    3. You Only Live Twice to On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. From Russia with Love to Goldfinger
    5. The World is not Enough to Die Another Day
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I was surprised you didn't mention Goldfinger to Thunderball, as we always say how poor Connery was in that and an overall release, only to redeem himself in 1965 with a fine peformance and much better overall release. Maybe I should of included that

    Actually Goldeneye to Tomorrow Never Dies seem quite apart now that I think about it, from the wide open and exotic spaces of Cuba to the industrial setting of Germany, although only there for a short while, and Brosnan wasn't anything like he was on his debut also. But did get back to his former Bondness for The World Is Not Enough
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    The 2 that stand out for me are AVTAK - TLD and also DAD to CR.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    LTK-GE.

    From the sublime to the ridiculous.
  • ElliotCarverElliotCarver
    Posts: 249
    Thinking about it, most of the most radical shift in tones are when the actor's shift.

    YOLT-OHMSS (This one is probably the least radical, but still, YOLT is quite silly, and OHMSS quite serious.)
    OHMSS-DAF (The most severe. DAF is my second least favorite Bond movie for that reason.)
    DAF-LALD (Also a not very radical shift, considering Connery in DAF were almost more Moore than Moore is. Still, LALD is possibly Moore's second most serious movie.)
    AVTAK-TLD (TLD isn't quite as serious as LTK, but still more so than most of Moore's movies. The idea of Bond shooting Kara in the start, and his reaction to having to shoot a woman, is something you didn't see with Moore.)
    LTK-GE (GE is Brosnan's most serious entry, still nothing in comparis to LTK. Heck, I wouldn't even say Craig's movies compare to LTK.)
    DAD-CR (This is quite obvious. We go from a giant laser in the sky actually chasing Bond in a car to OHMSS V2.0.)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    Murdock wrote:
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    Yes, it was bizarre, in retrospect or in general, that Blofeld would one time be as Pleasance resembled it, then the Charles Gray version so soon after. Savalas was merely in between, but at least still looked plausible after the Pleasance version. And did Savalas' Blofeld even have a cat that year ? You can't have Blofeld without a cat, and lo and behold, in 1969, they didn't even give him one ?

    There was some serious messing about and changes being done back in the time..

    Yes, Telly's Blofeld did have a cat. In his introduction scene when he answers the phone. It's very brief but it's the only time the cat is seen.

    You also see it when he's informed that Bond is trying to escape Piz Gloria.
  • STLCards3STLCards3
    Posts: 230
    First that popped into mind was OHMSS to DAF.
  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    edited February 2014 Posts: 1,009
    Birdleson wrote:
    I'd have to go with OHMSS to DAF.

    Make it another one.

    Now that I think of it, anyone of you guys is familiar with the Tintin comic book series? There's a similar shift there.
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