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India Locations Cancelled [Was: 'India Locations Selected']

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Correct. CGI isn't something we need to avoid like a deadly virus. However, it has to be applied only when it can add something valuable, not as a replacement for the real world. If your ambitions are too high for real stunt work, reconsider your ambitions. I much rather have a simple car chase but well shot and exciting like in the days of Sam Peckinpah than a ridiculously spectacular Star Warsian action scene that our Bond film is unable to film for real.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348

    IMO, that those stereotypes were the best part of OP. Those elements of the Vijay chase were just outrageously hilarious, and I would welcome them back with open arms. It would certainly give Craig the time to relax, smile, and enjoy himself and pop one liners, instead of looking dead serious the whole film.
    It sounds as if you are looking for a Rog Moore Bond film rather then a Dan Craig one and in that case you are going to be gravelly disapointed.
    There is set no standard for a Craig Bond film. From the reaction to QOS audiences demand something lighter. Who knows what the future holds?
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited September 2011 Posts: 348
    Every time I saw Casino Royale, people would gasp at that crane jump, or let out an barely audible 'Oh my god...', and damn it, that is how an action scene should be. The second and third time I saw that scene, the audience reaction was triggering my goosebumps!
    Personally it does nothing for me. The stunt double had harnesses which were edited out in post-production, and an extra 200 feet were added. Compare that to the TSWLM parachute jump, and it doesn't hold up. Why? Because the stuntman was risking his life.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    Keeping your view based in the post production, how do you ever enjoy any movies @shark? Movies are supposed to take you out of reality. If you constantly think throughout the thing, "oh he had strings" then of course it is going to ruin it for you, and will likely lead you to find a problem with every movie ever made.

    When you go into the theater you should relax, clear your head, and watch the plot unfold. Not think "they did that with this, which makes it lame." Someone shouldn't have to risk their life to please anyone, and I'm VERY happy, and most other people too, at the turnout of CR and its stunt scenes. The fact the guy was willing to fight on a foot of metal hundreds of feet above death is good enough for me. I would want strings. :P
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,718
    how do you ever enjoy any movies @shark
    I don't know how many hundreds of reviews @Shark made on the old MI6Forums, but you can count the movies he enjoyed with only your 2 hands.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    If CGI is to be used, it would probably be used for the first part of the stunt. Jumping one moving vehicle onto another is incredibly dangerous because of the differences in speed between the two. The only other way to reasonably do it would be to use a wire, but even that has its dangers.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    If CGI is to be used, it would probably be used for the first part of the stunt. Jumping one moving vehicle onto another is incredibly dangerous because of the differences in speed between the two. The only other way to reasonably do it would be to use a wire, but even that has its dangers.
    If they can't do it in real life, then forget about it. If the filmmakers had that kind of mentality for QOS, we'd have been saved from the stupidity of the gallery fight.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    If they can't do it in real life, then forget about it. If the filmmakers had that kind of mentality for QOS, we'd have been saved from the stupidity of the gallery fight.
    Actually, the gallery fight was done for real. The only CGI was the bizarre decision to lengthen the shot when Bond and Mitchell fall into the skylight. Otherwise, everything else was done with practical effects.

    There is an intermediary possibilty here: take a page out of THE DARK KNIGHT's playbook. For the car chase sequence, Christopher Nolan attempted to create a Tumbler rig that could actually eject the Batpod the way it is seen in the finished film. However, this was found to be largely impossible, but they managed to shoot it with a one-second CGI shot in it of when the Batpod actually ejects. It's possible that the landing on the train in BOND 23 could be done with a little bit of CGI, with everything else done by practical effects.

    Of course, we don't know the demands of the scene. Like I said, landing one moving vehicle on top of another is ridiculously dangerous, but that can be downplayed a little bit. For example, if the train is travelling at low speed, or if the jump that has to be made is a short one, or if the surface Bond has to land on is flat (as opposed to the curved top of many carraiges), then the danger is downplayed. It's still a factor, of course, but there's a bit difference between Bond jumping onto a freight train that is slowing for an upcoming corner, and jumping onto the TGV on a straight section of track.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    If they can't do it in real life, then forget about it. If the filmmakers had that kind of mentality for QOS, we'd have been saved from the stupidity of the gallery fight.
    Actually, the gallery fight was done for real.
    It was done through harnesses and padding. If they did it for real, Craig and the stuntman would've broken ever bone in their body.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    It was done through harnesses and padding.
    I hate to break it to you, but practically every stunt that involves heights uses harnesses and padding. Are you going to complain that the actors were held up by safety wires that were removed in post-production?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,718
    It was done through harnesses and padding.
    I hate to break it to you, but practically every stunt that involves heights uses harnesses and padding.
    The car flip in TMWTGG ? The free-fall in MR ? The boat jump in LALD ? The bus cutting in half in LALD ? The Union Jack ski jump in TSWLM ?
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    edited September 2011 Posts: 1,894
    How on earth would wires be used in any of those stunts? They're all vehicular; wires would simply get in the way.

    The next time you want to make an argument to disprove a point, at least pick one that actually applies. I mean, the bus getting cut in half in LIVE AND LET DIE doesn't even involve heights in the first place.

    You'll also note that I said "practically every stunt", not "every stunt". There's a subtle, but important difference between the two statements that changes the meaning entirely.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,718
    The free-fall in MR counts, as it was made for real while the one in QOS was made in front of blue screen.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Counts as what? We're not even talking about freefall sequeneces.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Counts as what? We're not even talking about freefall sequeneces.
    I thought we were talking about CGI... QOS free fall = CGI, MR free fall = the real deal.

  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,847
    I hate to be an ass here but what if anything does this argument have to do with the locations in India?

    I would love to see some pictures of the locations considered does anyone know where I should go.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    It was done through harnesses and padding.
    Are you going to complain that the actors were held up by safety wires that were removed in post-production?
    I am.

  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    Counts as what? We're not even talking about freefall sequeneces.
    I thought we were talking about CGI... QOS free fall = CGI, MR free fall = the real deal.

    Not to quibble, but although the *stunt team* did a free fall in MR, there was also rear projection used. If CGI had been around in the late 70s I'm sure they would have used it instead of the rear projection they used when showing Moore.

    The question is, is bad rear projection and obvious stunt doubles worse than CGI where you can see the actual actors as the characters? Six of one perhaps..?

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,718
    The question is, is bad rear projection and obvious stunt doubles worse than CGI where you can see the actual actors as the characters? Six of one perhaps..?
    Call me nostalgic, but I much prefer rear projection and obvious stunt double... I love me some old fashioned film making.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    I am.
    Well, that's just petty. You repeatedly say you want stunts that are done realistically, and then recant when such a stunt is done simply because the safety harnesses were removed in post-production (which is very common, very easy to do and never looks like cheap CGI). You simply cannot have these stunts performed without safety wires. You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,847


    For Dalton.


    And again call me crazy Bot as long as the stunt looks amazing I could care less how it's done I watch Bond to enjoy bond not to critque film making but that's just me. And Please don't go by me I'm Looking forward to Same of Shadows Ghost Protocol and TGWDT.
  • JamesPageJamesPage Administrator, Moderator, Director
    Posts: 1,380
    As MI6 first reported back in April this year, the picturesque Dudhsagar waterfall, situated on the Goa-Karnataka border, was on of the top Indian locations selected for a train sequence in the the 23rd James Bond film.

    Sources of the Indian Express confirm that a recce of the spot, located in the thick jungles on the state border, has already been done and the railway ministry has also given its approval. The South-Western Railway operates train services from near the waterfall.

    Some issues related to shooting, however, are yet to be sorted out.

    “Height is an issue. For the sequence, they require a particular height, which is not there near this spot. But they have still listed this place,” a source told the paper.

    But, even though the Entertainment Society of Goa (ESG), a nodal agency which gives permission for film shooting in Goa, is yet to receive an application for the shooting, sources said the next Bond movie would be shot over 40 days from January to March.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    If everything that's been sorted so far can be worked out I'm hoping this will not a problem. This beautiful needs to be in Bond 23, perhaps shot in a Moonraker sort of way.
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Kind of about the new film. The Goa waterfall is a 'deity' it seems:

    If British super-spy James Bond comes visiting at the Dudh Sagar waterfall, he had better take care of some do's and don'ts. Local people regard it as a guardian spirit.

    The crew of Bond 23, which is on the floors and will star Daniel Craig, has shortlisted Dudh Sagar as one of the locations for their January to March shooting schedule along with another location in Gujarat.

    But sociologists and social historians say the waterfall Dudh Sagar, literally translated as 'Sea of Milk', is regarded as a fear-invoking deity, whom the villagers of nearby villages call 'Rakhno Dev' (protector god) and unfailingly pay obeisance to.

    The waterfall, which comes thundering down a few hundred metres into a basin barely kissing a railway arch bridge, is located deep in the Western ghats, 70 km from here.

    Prajal Sakhardande, a leading social historian from Goa, said, "The Dudh Sagar is a guardian spirit for the villagers of Collem. People worship it in awe."

    He said a temple has also been built in its honour a short distance away.

    "You are not supposed to spit when you are near the waterfall or throw non-vegetarian food into the water or shout and scream loudly. All these things are taboo at the waterfall site."

    Sakhardande said these are factors that the Bond 23 crew might have to consider, if they finally choose India's sixth highest waterfall as a shooting location for their January-March 2012 schedule.

    The alternative shooting locale for the stunt sequence, which reportedly involves the blond Bond Daniel Craig jumping off the train with the waterfall in the backdrop, is in Gujarat.

    "The villagers of Collem (a nearby village) regard the Dudh Sagar waterfall as god itself. The waterfall, because of its sheer size and because of the fact that it provides them with water all year round, is for them a deity, whom they worship and treat with awe," sociologist Bernadette Gomes said.

    Villagers say several families annually slaughter roosters as an offering to the 'Dudh Sagar Deo', seeking his protection against any potential evil.

    "The sacrifice happens at the Dudh Sagar temple located a short distance from the waterfall. It is an old, old custom, which most families observe, either when they want a favour from the 'rakhno', or when they feel some trouble is plaguing them," said a local resident of Collem, who did not want to be identified.

    The authorities in Goa earlier this month confirmed an interest expressed by the Bond production team for shooting a sequence for the forthcoming film at Dudh Sagar.

    "They have shortlisted Dudh Sagar as one of the locations for their January to March shooting schedule along with another location in Gujarat," said Manoj Srivastava, CEO of the Entertainment Society of Goa (ESG), which issues permission for film shoots in the state.

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/will-it-be-bond-versus-goas-waterfall-deity/184443-8-67.html

    Thoughts?
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    So long as filming doesn't do any damage to the waterfall, I don't think there will be any problem.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited September 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Could the waterfall be used for the bike stunt, or something of that sort? I can't quite picture how it'll factor in yet.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Here's a picture of the falls:

    http://news.cheapflighthouse.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/dudhsagar.jpg

    So I'd say Bond will be on the train when it goes past them. The waterfall itself won't figure into the sequence - Bond won't ride his bike off them or whatever - they'll just be in the background as Bond rides the train.

    I could understand the QOS procudtion team deliberately shooting the ESO observatory building without actually showing the telescopes in the background, but I can't imagine EON would pick this particular location and then ask Roger Deakins to shoot it all with his back to the falls.
  • Char35tChar35t
    Posts: 289
    yeah i agree....they will honor the locals and most likely just shoot going by that would be the wisest thing to do. its awesome...
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Well, we know the details of the planned sequence. None of it calls for the waterfall to be used in any way. We'll likely just see Bond riding the train as it goes past the falls.
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