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What editions of the Fleming novels do you own?

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  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 391
    Were there some changes in Fleming texts in recent editions?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Stamper wrote: »
    Were there some changes in Fleming texts in recent editions?

    Yes, in the US the chapter title NIGGER HEAVEN from LIVE AND LET DIE was changed into something else.
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    I absolutely adore the Folio Society editions. The paintings are (mostly) superb, they are really atmospheric, very sexy in places, and they have a slight pulp quality to them which really fits the 1950s/60s. They really chose the best artist there.

    Anyone thinking about starting to get them now would need a fair amount of disposable income in their bank account. But I wonder if the FS will do a box set when they’re all done? - selling a box set of all of the books at a lower price than it would be to buy them all individually.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2021 Posts: 18,343
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Were there some changes in Fleming texts in recent editions?

    Yes, in the US the chapter title NIGGER HEAVEN from LIVE AND LET DIE was changed into something else.

    The chapter title was changed to SEVENTH AVENUE in the US editions and the "local colour" scene in the same chapter where Bond listened in to a black couple talking in their Harlem dialect was cut completely. There were also certain other 'race edits' throughout the rest of the novel and in some of the others, including Diamonds Are Forever. I believe the original text was restored in US editions of the Fleming novels in more recent years. Anyone interested in knowing some more can read my article here:

    https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/james-bond-novels-that-were-edited.html?m=1
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,085
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Were there some changes in Fleming texts in recent editions?

    Yes, in the US the chapter title NIGGER HEAVEN from LIVE AND LET DIE was changed into something else.

    The (very nice) hardback Penguin Vintage Classics 2017 edition used the US version of the book Live and let Die, where chapter five was called Seventh Avenue instead of Nigger Heaven.

    literary-vintage-uk-2017-lald.jpg

    But more importantly, it deleted about three pages of text from that chapter, (as did the original US versions as I understand it).
    Now, seeing as the original US version of the book had these changes, it could be debated if this is censorship in the true sense, as Fleming himself agreed to the US version. But either way, I was glad to see Folio went with the full-fat UK version of Live and Let Die.
    The only worrying thing now, is that Folio are going to stay strict to their plan of issuing the first UK edition texts, which would mean Octopussy wouldn't include the story Property Of A Lady. And this would mean people with a complete Folio edition collection, wouldn't have all the James Bond adventures in there.
    I did mention this before on here, but it got no response. I've even thought of contacting Folio about it.
    Ideally, I'd like to see 007 in New York in there too.
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 391
    Damn, I didn't realise until reading your blog, that what Felix says in his last minutes in NTTD is derived from LALD.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,085
    yolt.jpg

    I got the Folio edition of YOLT for Xmas, and I love it! That makes three hardback copies of YOLT I have now. Here they are. Along with the Folio there's the Cape first edition, and the Cape book club 1964 edition, which I particularly like as it depicts Blofeld in his suit of armour walking through the garden of death.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,593
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    yolt.jpg

    I got the Folio edition of YOLT for Xmas, and I love it! That makes three hardback copies of YOLT I have now. Here they are. Along with the Folio there's the Cape first edition, and the Cape book club 1964 edition, which I particularly like as it depicts Blofeld in his suit of armour walking through the garden of death.

    Very jealous of this beautiful collection of YOLT novels.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,085
    I'm re-reading YOLT as part of my great Fleming re-read that started March last year. I always said YOLT was my favourite, but I re-read it about four or five years ago and it didn't grab me like I remembered. We'll see. I thought OHMSS was excellent, and along with FRWL, possibly Fleming's masterpiece.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,593
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    I'm re-reading YOLT as part of my great Fleming re-read that started March last year. I always said YOLT was my favourite, but I re-read it about four or five years ago and it didn't grab me like I remembered. We'll see. I thought OHMSS was excellent, and along with FRWL, possibly Fleming's masterpiece.

    I've got to do a re-read at some point soon as well; I want to get it in before Horowitz' new novel comes out.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,085
    I'm making sure I read a few books in between each Bond book, that's why it's taking so long. I once tried to read them one after another, and they all gelled into one. I was expecting characters from the previous book to turn up in the stories.
    I'm excited for the next Horowitz too.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    edited December 2021 Posts: 2,161
    Delete
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    yolt.jpg

    I got the Folio edition of YOLT for Xmas, and I love it! That makes three hardback copies of YOLT I have now. Here they are. Along with the Folio there's the Cape first edition, and the Cape book club 1964 edition, which I particularly like as it depicts Blofeld in his suit of armour walking through the garden of death.

    The one on the left was the second ever Fleming Bond I read. I had an hour to wait for my bus home after school and the library was just across the street, so I would sit there and read books and magazines. That one is one I remember picking up.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    This is a bit of a tangent to the thread, but I figured it would be the best place to ask: Is there a collection/box set of the Fleming books available? I don't own any of the books in physical form and felt it was time to rectify that. I can't seem to find any collections and don't even really know what to search for. A pointer would be much appreciated.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 558
    Vintage is the most recent printing, that's the one that's currently in the bookshops in the UK at least. They did do a boxset but I don't think they still sell it so you'd probably have to try your luck on eBay or buy them individually. Alternatively you could spend a small fortune buying the Folio Society ones.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Those are the ones I get shown on Amazon Germany, when searching for the english versions. Sadly, they are often unreliable and suddenly you get a different cover than the one that was shown when you clicked on it...
    Maybe just cobbling them together used is the better way to go anyway. Again, not that easy to do for the english versions in Germany, but just clicking on a link is boring anyway, isn't it?
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Just the bog standard Pan editions. They were bequeathed to me by a friend. Apart from watching the odd film on TV, I had no particular interest in Bond until I read them.

    My friend was very particular as to how he kept the books and I've upheld his standards. I cherish them not because of any perceived monetary value (I know they're not worth anything anyway) but in memory of a good friend who introduced me to Ian Fleming's work.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,300
    I'm not someone bothered about which editions I own personally. The Fleming novels I do have are all different editions. One of the older ones I have is a nice hardback Book Club edition of GF, the one with the titular character's profile on the right hand side with a black and gold picture of a woman on the left. I think it's quite an old one and a friend got it for me as a birthday present from a charity shop. I also have old ones of CR and LALD, the ones with the blue covers and silhouettes of Bond with very sensationalist blurbs on the back. Not sure where they came from but I've always had them, actually long before I ever read them. I think they were owned previously by my Grandfather. The rest I think are Penguin Modern classic editions which are all pretty recent and were bought by me when I re-read the books.

    I half wish I owned one of the Folio Society editions as from what I've seen the illustrations are beautiful, but I'm someone who prefers to imagine a scene/characters when reading so I'm not sure if I'd go out of my way to get one.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    And the one thing about Fleming is that he paints such vivid picture for the mind's eye, people who read them don't even have to have an imagination!
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,085
    I get surprised when I read people picture Bond movie actors in their head when they read Fleming. I never have, I couldn't. I rely on the text and my imagination, and I think that's how novels work best.
    I look on the Folio illustrations as some else's versions of what they read, and I'd never use them as reference points to help me visualise the book in my mind. I don't think they're there for that.
    A novel should be just a two way relationship between the author and the reader. That's how I see it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,593
    It's true that there exists a unique version of Bond in my imagination, for the novels.

    The Folio Society Flemings are nice to have though; the Dalton illustrations, while they don't replace my own imagined imagery, are really nice new Bond content to have.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,800
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    Yes, he looked a bit of Hoagy Carmichael, well this guy:

    Fleming007impression.jpg
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,300
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looked like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bears little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,800
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    I'm re-reading YOLT as part of my great Fleming re-read that started March last year. I always said YOLT was my favourite, but I re-read it about four or five years ago and it didn't grab me like I remembered. We'll see. I thought OHMSS was excellent, and along with FRWL, possibly Fleming's masterpiece.

    I'm not sure about OHMSS, the brainwashing plot and Blofeld's description quite brought the book down for me, and Tracy didn't had much of a presence, I found her a bit weak, she's sandwiched between two greatly written Bond Girls (Domino and Kissy), the romance was also a bit rushed.

    The stakes are low since it's just focused on UK.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,327
    007HallY wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looks like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bear little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.

    I don't imagine any actor in the role when reading the books. To be honest, the person I am imagining who Bond is when reading the books is actually myself in the role.... :))
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looks like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bear little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.

    I don't imagine any actor in the role when reading the books. To be honest, the person I am imagining who Bond is when reading the books is actually myself in the role.... :))

    Let me see..... 🧐😅
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,300
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looks like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bear little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.

    I don't imagine any actor in the role when reading the books. To be honest, the person I am imagining who Bond is when reading the books is actually myself in the role.... :))

    Makes sense, I suspect we all (even subconsciously and to different extents) would like to be Bond.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    007HallY wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looked like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bear little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.

    I'm old enough to remember him, though his star had waned by my time. I've seen a few of his films in the past. He was very big in his day, but long forgotten. For those who don't know what he looked like here's a link to a photo.

    https://jamesbondradio.com/reading-fleming-casino-royale-1953-benjamin-clow/hoagy-carmichael/
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,300
    stag wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    The Bond I envisage in the IF books is in no way related to the screen actors. I imagine him as more Fleming who, in certain photographs, bears a resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael. Though I've no evidence to back this next claim up, I suspect it was remarked upon that IF looked like HC and he picked up and ran with it.

    I always find that reference interesting. Partly because very few people nowadays would know what Carmichael looked like, but also because Fleming only references Bond as looking like him twice in the early books. In later novels he tends to lean more into the colder aspects of Bond's appearance and runs more with the 'mysterious dark stranger' impression. I get the sense his original idea of what Bond would look like and how he would come across changed slightly as the novels got more fantastical after CR. Even the Daily Express illustration of Bond that Fleming oversaw (as well as the early comic strips) bear little resemblance to Carmichael.

    Honestly, I tend to imagine Bond as a mixture of a young Oliver Reed and young Christopher Plummer when I read Fleming. The Carmichael reference never brought anything to mind for me.

    I'm old enough to remember him, though his star had waned by my time. I've seen a few of his films in the past. He was very big in his day, but long forgotten. For those who don't know what he looked like here's a link to a photo.

    https://jamesbondradio.com/reading-fleming-casino-royale-1953-benjamin-clow/hoagy-carmichael/

    Whenever I see his photographs I always think an English accent should come out of Carmichael's mouth. Obviously he was American. Again, it gives you a very different idea of Bond if you know what Carmichael looked like compared to if you read Bond's description without the reference in other Fleming novels.

    The only time I've ever sort of 'gotten it' with regards to a version of Bond coming across like a young Carmichael is in this clip:



    It might just be his more low key performance, but the way he moves his eyes and the slight smiles he gives is how I imagine Fleming envisioned Bond in CR. It's not how I do personally, but I just get that sense.
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