TWINE: Did Brosnan offer a definitive characterisation of 007?

1111213141517»

Comments

  • edited April 2020 Posts: 4,409
    Edit
  • Posts: 698
    @Pierce2Daniel I completely agree. Elektra is my favourite villain in the series for exactly the reasons you mentioned. She is so innocent and beautiful in the first half of the film, and then she is over the top when it's revealed she's the baddie. The torture scene in the chair I think is one of the best scenes in the series, largely due to how Marceau plays it, like she's playing with her toys. I think Elektra is an underrated villain in an underrated film.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel I completely agree. Elektra is my favourite villain in the series for exactly the reasons you mentioned. She is so innocent and beautiful in the first half of the film, and then she is over the top when it's revealed she's the baddie. The torture scene in the chair I think is one of the best scenes in the series, largely due to how Marceau plays it, like she's playing with her toys. I think Elektra is an underrated villain in an underrated film.

    100% Agreed with both of you. An underrated gem of a Bond film.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 4,409
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel I completely agree. Elektra is my favourite villain in the series for exactly the reasons you mentioned. She is so innocent and beautiful in the first half of the film, and then she is over the top when it's revealed she's the baddie. The torture scene in the chair I think is one of the best scenes in the series, largely due to how Marceau plays it, like she's playing with her toys. I think Elektra is an underrated villain in an underrated film.

    I don't think I'd describe her as 'over the top,' I think her behaviour in that moment is totally in keeping with her character. She's always been a bit reckless and entitled throughout the film. She just so happens to be relishing the moment that little bit more as she's wants to Bond to know how foolish he was to fall for her act. She played him and she really wanted him to know.

    MiserableLateAllosaurus-size_restricted.gif

    I agree that the torture chair is a terrific scene, mainly as Bond is genuinely vulnerable and in pain. She has the upper hand. It's a bit of a Bond cliche, but doesn't feel like it at all. It feels fresh and not like a rehash.

    It's interesting that the team decided to have Bond kill Elektra. The easiest decision would have been for her to escape and get caught after the action in the finale. The fact that they said 'no', we are going to have a confrontation between her and Bond where he is forced to make a decision is a big deal.

    Whilst many may disagree with the outcome, Eon put themselves in the position where they forced their hero make a decision. Then - rather interestingly - they decided to have Bond make the more aggressive decision. It's quite a provocative and conversation-starting choice....this type of stuff is overlooked about TWINE and people focus too much on the dumb 'Christmas comes twice a year' crap. Though the film does itself no favours in that regard

    600px-Twine_colt14.jpg
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel I completely agree. Elektra is my favourite villain in the series for exactly the reasons you mentioned. She is so innocent and beautiful in the first half of the film, and then she is over the top when it's revealed she's the baddie. The torture scene in the chair I think is one of the best scenes in the series, largely due to how Marceau plays it, like she's playing with her toys. I think Elektra is an underrated villain in an underrated film.

    100% Agreed with both of you. An underrated gem of a Bond film.

    Totally agree. There's some sorta psychological depth to this film. But primarily it's terrific entertainment.

    I also watched The Dark Knight Rises a few weeks back. A movie that I really love despite its polarising response. But it always seemed to me that Nolan was basically remaking TWINE with that film....
    1. Both have big grandiose action openings (with said opening being the highlight of the film)
    2. Both villains are very similar that they're bald, immune to pain, and are actually not the main villain.
    3. The true main villain is a businesswoman with daddy issues who slept with the hero. Both are played by French actresses who are rather similar
    4. Both female villains injure the hero prior to death. Electra tortures Bond with a chair. Miranda stabs Batman.
    5. Both villains plans involve nuclear bombs to fulfil the bad girl's family goals. In both cases, the male lover villain is willing to die to make sure it happens.
    6. Both have an extremely hot (albeit unimportant) American love interest who the hero ends up with at the end. Christmas Jones and Catwoman.
    7. Both heroes have a serious injury that prevents them from being the badass hero that they are.
    8. Midway in the movie, the hero confronts or is confronted by the male villain and either loses or is gotten the better of. Either way it doesn't end well for the hero (Renard hurts his shoulder and escapes with the bombs. Bane breaks Batman's back, steals his stuff, and imprisons him).
    9. An authority figure close the hero is targeted in a bad way (Renard and Electra want to kill M for revenge. Bane exposes Gordon's secret and plans to have him executed).
    10. Both have vertigo inducing action scenes (the plane in TDKR and the submarine in TWINE)
    11. Q and Fox are basically the same character.

    5LDE.gif

    TDKR is basically a Bond movie in disguise.
  • Posts: 4,409
    Went back to have another look at some scenes today....is it me or does this film have Pierce's most Bondian look? Something about it - he's more mature and masculine than he was in GE, but still devastatingly handsome.

    the-world-is-not-enough-204.png

    Also, love the whole casino scene which feels like its indebted to the mood and atmosphere of Hitchcock.

    the script can be a little corny at time, but I dig Renard's dialogue. Especially, 'A man tires of being executed.' It's a bit on the nose, I suppose, but I like it; it's pulpy. I also think it's interesting that M is really the person who created Elektra opposed to Renard. It's her fault that she turned out this way; hence why Elektra repays her the favour of leaving her kidnapped. This film is so very underrated.

    Submarine finale is a bit of overkill though.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    IIRC, one of the many issues with the submarine finale is that the score turns upbeat too soon, giving away the happy ending a bit.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For me, the whole premise of this thread is ironic, as I feel TWINE offers the weakest Bond performance of them all. FWIW, I think Brosnan does fine in TND and DAD. I don t hate his Bond as I used to. His performance in TWINE however (and GE) feels forced and unnatural and borders on soap opera territory. It isn t only down to Brosnan. The scripts and the directors are also to blame.
  • edited May 2020 Posts: 4,409
    Also, is this scene supposed to be a video that her kidnappers made of her whilst she was imprisoned? It looks like the sort of video that kidnappers would release to get money. But she talks int he past tense about how "he shouted all the time." Is it supposed to be from some police interview? I suppose there is no clear answer and it could be either........what do we reckon?

    the-world-is-not-enough-134.png?w=590&h=368
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    For me, the whole premise of this thread is ironic, as I feel TWINE offers the weakest Bond performance of them all. FWIW, I think Brosnan does fine in TND and DAD. I don t hate his Bond as I used to. His performance in TWINE however (and GE) feels forced and unnatural and borders on soap opera territory. It isn t only down to Brosnan. The scripts and the directors are also to blame.


    I definitely blame the director, which is why I'm not so harsh on Denise Richards because nobody was really directed well. Elektra's maniacal ranting makes her less interesting and more cartoonish. "EEET EEZ MY OIL! MINE!"

    Also, is this scene supposed to be a video that her kidnappers made of her whilst she was imprisoned? It looks like the sort of video that kidnappers would release to get money. But she talks int he past tense about how "he shouted all the time." Is it supposed to be from some police interview? I suppose there is no clear answer and it could be either........what do we reckon?

    the-world-is-not-enough-134.png?w=590&h=368

    The first clip Bond watches is a new anchor announcing that Elektra was rescued, so I think that makes it pretty clear that what footage Bond is seeing of her is when she was just rescued.
  • Posts: 1,917
    For me, the whole premise of this thread is ironic, as I feel TWINE offers the weakest Bond performance of them all. FWIW, I think Brosnan does fine in TND and DAD. I don t hate his Bond as I used to. His performance in TWINE however (and GE) feels forced and unnatural and borders on soap opera territory. It isn t only down to Brosnan. The scripts and the directors are also to blame.

    Agreed. GE and TWINE seem like they're trying too hard in including these moments to and don't play to strengths and instead try stretching for things they can't possibly reach convincingly. It's why I find one overrated and the other awful and TND and DAD actually enjoyable overall experiences (with many reservations on DAD).
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Also, is this scene supposed to be a video that her kidnappers made of her whilst she was imprisoned? It looks like the sort of video that kidnappers would release to get money. But she talks int he past tense about how "he shouted all the time." Is it supposed to be from some police interview? I suppose there is no clear answer and it could be either........what do we reckon?

    the-world-is-not-enough-134.png?w=590&h=368

    Just watched TWINE, I thought this was from a police interview immediately after she was 'rescued'.
  • Posts: 2,436
    Went back to have another look at some scenes today....is it me or does this film have Pierce's most Bondian look? Something about it - he's more mature and masculine than he was in GE, but still devastatingly handsome.

    the-world-is-not-enough-204.png

    Also, love the whole casino scene which feels like its indebted to the mood and atmosphere of Hitchcock.

    the script can be a little corny at time, but I dig Renard's dialogue. Especially, 'A man tires of being executed.' It's a bit on the nose, I suppose, but I like it; it's pulpy. I also think it's interesting that M is really the person who created Elektra opposed to Renard. It's her fault that she turned out this way; hence why Elektra repays her the favour of leaving her kidnapped. This film is so very underrated.

    Submarine finale is a bit of overkill though.

    TWINE had such potential - I just think that the execution (along with too much corniness) is where it's lacking. Brosnan for me just doesn't cut it in this film - it's like it's beyond him to reach the dramatic depths that they were after - maybe it's the fault of direction. I feel like Brosnan is an actor who needs a director to get his performances out of him. Across his films I find his acting bordering on awful to brilliant, there's little in between. Polanski's Ghost and The Tailor of Panama show what he can do. But then Apted is known for getting good dramatic performances ...
  • Posts: 1,917
    Finally did another viewing of TWINE, which prior to was my least favorite Bond film. Upon last evening's viewing, well, it's still down in the basement. Maybe not quite as miserable as I'd thought before but certainly nothing I want to revisit again anytime soon.

    On the plus side, Sophie Marceau is excellent. She'd have made a good girlfriend for Zorin. Denise Richards isn't that bad; no better than before, but she's great to look at, especially in the caviar factory scene, and miles better than Tanya Roberts. At least she isn't screaming "James!" every couple minutes and her technical lines are convincing. The Mi6 castle is a great setting.

    Other than that, this film just drags. The boat chase, which seemed like a highlight before, went on and on (why the hell didn't Bond just torpedo her boat in the open water much earlier?) and the detours through restaurants just seem excessive and stupid.

    So does the caviar factory sequence, just going on and on. I've named the ski sequence one of the worst action sequences in any Bond film and it holds up in that way, especially noticed how many times the parahawk guys have clear shots at Bond with their machine guns and still can't hit him.

    There were so many instances also of people getting into or off of boats, helicopters, cars, planes, subs, etc. It was like watching a webcam at a travel agency. I also had to feel for Brosnan as he gets stuck with so many awful lines like "Davidoff caught a bullet instead of a plane" or something like that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    The Vic Armstrong action sequences from TND/TWINE/DAD do make up my least favorites. The caviar factory is the weakest for me because it feels very stagey, like one of those live shows you see at theme parks full of pyrotechnics. It’s fun to watch in person, but on the film there’s nothing tense about it.

    Same with the boat chase, which probably has the most nonsensical kick off with Cigar Girl shooting at Bond for no in-universe reason.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    The Vic Armstrong action sequences from TND/TWINE/DAD do make up my least favorites. The caviar factory is the weakest for me because it feels very stagey, like one of those live shows you see at theme parks full of pyrotechnics. It’s fun to watch in person, but on the film there’s nothing tense about it.

    Same with the boat chase, which probably has the most nonsensical kick off with Cigar Girl shooting at Bond for no in-universe reason.

    Agree. Attempts to assassinate Bond and then ends up killing herself when she could've easily killed Bond.
Sign In or Register to comment.