TWINE: Did Brosnan offer a definitive characterisation of 007?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    I prefer Gladys to Adele. LTK is a decent song. I honestly find the Adele song completely forgetable. I don't think it's very hummable.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    I prefer Gladys to Adele. LTK is a decent song. I honestly find the Adele song completely forgetable. I don't think it's very hummable.

    I think its a wonderful song. I like Gladys Knight but LTK does sound a bit...80s.

    Also Adele's song has a melancholic feel to it that suits Bond as well as the film itself.

    Great bit of music. The best Bond song we've had in a long time.
  • Posts: 1,107
    Getafix wrote:
    I prefer Gladys to Adele. LTK is a decent song. I honestly find the Adele song completely forgetable. I don't think it's very hummable.
    LTK song is one of my favorites.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited December 2012 Posts: 3,497

    IMO- The boat chase wasn't overly long. Goldie wasn't wasted, he didn't have much screen time but he wasn't a brilliant character anyway, and Denise Richards was no worse than some of the Moore era girls. She did her job, she showed up, looked hot, and shagged Bond.

    Cleese was a bit Mr Bean in this one but there was nothing terrible about him. He was better in DAD though. Honestly most of those flaws you pointed out don't seem major to me.
    Imho, these flaws are not enough to hate it as much as DAD or TND. Did you actually read the entire post?

    It's still called a simple opinion.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Dalton12 wrote:
    LTK song is one of my favorites.

    I was perfectly happy when they chose Adele but I just don't think the song is that memorable. Bit of a durge really.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:

    I was perfectly happy when they chose Adele but I just don't think the song is that memorable. Bit of a durge really.

    I remember crying with happiness mentally when I heard it in the cinema. It really works in the film.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Newman barely uses it in the film... which is another one of my gripes.

    The soundtrack is very mediocre. I think it's one of the reasons I found the film so soporiphic. I think Mendes forgot to remind Newman he was scoring a Bond movie and not some depressing melodrama. Adele was a decent choice of artist but the song is only just serviceable IMO. There is no catchy little chorus or anything to really draw you in. It feels like a dull hymn sung at school on a wet Monday morning.

  • Posts: 1,107
    Getafix wrote:
    Newman barely uses it in the film... which is another one of my gripes.

    The soundtrack is very mediocre. I think it's one of the reasons I found the film so soporiphic. I think Mendes forgot to remind Newman he was scoring a Bond movie and not some depressing melodrama. Adele was a decent choice of artist but the song is only just serviceable IMO. There is no catchy little chorus or anything to really draw you in. It feels like a dull hymn sung at school on a wet Monday morning.

    I agree.
  • Posts: 1,107
    Pierce Brosnan wasn't very suitable for this role. It was really wierd to see him on the screen as Bond. He is a good actor ,but he doesn't have that kind of quality.It was like Remington Steele is playing Bond.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I've never seen Remington Steele so for me it was even worse - it was like Pierce Brosnan is playing Bond...
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    The LTK song is one of the best Bondtitletracks imho too. :)>-
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Getafix wrote:
    Brozza gave the definitively awful Bond performance.

    29029881.jpg

  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Is that supposed to be the pain face?

    Of course I'm serious. Brozza was the worst Bond. Definitively.
  • Posts: 3,327
    002 wrote:

    29029881.jpg

    I've ammended your post slightly so it makes more sense to most people on Planet Earth.....
    ;)
  • JamesCraig wrote:
    Imho, these flaws are not enough to hate it as much as DAD or TND. Did you actually read the entire post?

    It's still called a simple opinion.

    Calm down. I just said that none of them seemed major to me and none of them stop it being in my top 10.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I think its a wonderful song. I like Gladys Knight but LTK does sound a bit...80s.

    Also Adele's song has a melancholic feel to it that suits Bond as well as the film itself.

    Great bit of music. The best Bond song we've had in a long time.

    @Bain123 Of course LTK sounds 80's because it was '89.

    Skyfall is a great song but nothing I have not heard before. It sounds very 2012! :)

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:

    SF is easily better than LTK (and I say that as someone who used to rate LTK in my top 5).

    At least SF doesn't contain a silly American bar fight and cheesey "look how tough he is" dialogue ("he's had enough...run a tab") ;)

    Oh and its filmed better

    The stunning Adele song/PTS video alone trounce it too.

    I'd say we are in one of the best positions we've been in for a LONG time (and the "Daltonator" would probably admit that too)

    Are you seriously suggesting on this forum that the Adele song and SF PTS trounce LTK as a film????????????? My goodness, but what is this world coming to? Has logic stopped applying in debates?

    SF had an f'ing budget of $200 f'ing million. Of course it will be be filmed well. For that kind of money I would expect that and who wouldn't?

    But let's get this straight. John Glen had a measly $30 million for LTK and he did an amazing job. In all fairness, if SF had a measly budget it would have been a disaster because look at how much money was needed to get SF to where it was.

    Considering all the problems LTK had with the studio and no helping hand, then as an effort I would go with LTK as the greater achievement.

    The filming in SF was nothing I had not seen in other films already. It looked good but that is not why I liked the film. It was the story and because it kicked out the cornyness.

    LTK has amazing cinematography too and they used the Mexican location very well.

    The bar scene is not even a key scene in the film. If I want to go to that nit picky level, then let me tell you that I cringed in the cinema at the scene where Craig is wearing a hat at the airport with dark sunglasses in SF looking like a member of The Pet Shop Boys.





  • Posts: 1,492
    Won't happen from me. I know what I like and what I don't instantly, which doesn't really change over time.

    I hated Brozza back in the 90's, and still do now. Your theory is based on me actually originally liking old Brozza, then changing my mind once Craig came on the scene.

    It never happened. I hated Brozza from the beginning.

    While I never hated Brozzer I despaired at the way his films went and to be frank I would rather watch midget clown porn that watch DAD again.

    But then his film were based around his lazy characterisation and were tailored to his sub-moore characterisation.

    Dan?

    How will he be thought of when his tenure finishes?

    Well, to be frank I don't envy Babs chosing the new one once he goes. To the world he is James Bond. The worldwide grosses for SF are actually so big they are making me gasp. His reputation is at an all time high. Thats not just a Craig fanboy talking thats reading reviews, listening to film critics. I actually think his tenure is very well thought of and not just in fan circles.

    I think the next guy has to be as good as Craig or he is in alot of trouble.

  • Posts: 1,492
    acoppola wrote:
    [If I want to go to that nit picky level, then let me tell you that I cringed in the cinema at the scene where Craig is wearing a hat at the airport with dark sunglasses in SF looking like a member of The Pet Shop Boys.

    Wasn't he in disguise as a chaffeur or something?

    I agree with you about LTK. The budget was low and Glen had to concentrate on story and character which is a plus.

  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,425
    acoppola wrote:

    Are you seriously suggesting on this forum that the Adele song and SF PTS trounce LTK as a film????????????? My goodness, but what is this world coming to? Has logic stopped applying in debates?

    SF had an f'ing budget of $200 f'ing million. Of course it will be be filmed well. For that kind of money I would expect that and who wouldn't?

    But let's get this straight. John Glen had a measly $30 million for LTK and he did an amazing job. In all fairness, if SF had a measly budget it would have been a disaster because look at how much money was needed to get SF to where it was.

    Considering all the problems LTK had with the studio and no helping hand, then as an effort I would go with LTK as the greater achievement.

    The filming in SF was nothing I had not seen in other films already. It looked good but that is not why I liked the film. It was the story and because it kicked out the cornyness.

    LTK has amazing cinematography too and they used the Mexican location very well.

    The bar scene is not even a key scene in the film. If I want to go to that nit picky level, then let me tell you that I cringed in the cinema at the scene where Craig is wearing a hat at the airport with dark sunglasses in SF looking like a member of The Pet Shop Boys.





    That shot was excruciating. I was thinking Village People rather than Pet ShopsBoys though. What kind of chauffer dresses like that in this day and age? He looked like a stripogram.

    Ditto when he put product placement shades on again before Severine is shot. He looked absurd and I wanted to laugh.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:

    That shot was excruciating. I was thinking Village People rather than Pet ShopsBoys though. What kind of chauffer dresses like that in this day and age? He looked like a stripogram.

    Ditto when he put product placement shades on again before Severine is shot. He looked absurd and I wanted to laugh.

    Sometimes Craigers are people who throw stones in their glass houses. Dalton in the bar scene looks mean and even the famous Bond script writer Tom Mankiewicz said he was tough.

    I must say Rog's clown costume looked less bad than that chauffeur scene. I am not kidding @Getafix but Craig looked short in that scene. You are right, it did look like a stripogram.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    actonsteve wrote:
    uin
    Wasn't he in disguise as a chaffeur or something?

    I agree with you about LTK. The budget was low and Glen had to concentrate on story and character which is a plus.

    He was in disguise but it did look stupid. I can't have people bashing Rog for the clown outfit and then let Dan get off the hook. He could be in disguise without looking ridiculously bad!

    I think LTK has great rewatchability and something highly unusual. I think Glen excelled himself considering he was going against franchise protocol. It was his fifth film and the man still had ample steam.

    LTK is a remarkable achievement. QOS cost $200 million including promotion but LTK just does it better with far less. Old Bond directors could make a classic for a pittance.
    And I tip my hat to them.

  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote:

    @Bain123 Of course LTK sounds 80's because it was '89.

    Skyfall is a great song but nothing I have not heard before. It sounds very 2012! :)
    acoppola wrote:

    Are you seriously suggesting on this forum that the Adele song and SF PTS trounce LTK as a film????????????? My goodness, but what is this world coming to? Has logic stopped applying in debates?

    SF had an f'ing budget of $200 f'ing million. Of course it will be be filmed well. For that kind of money I would expect that and who wouldn't?

    But let's get this straight. John Glen had a measly $30 million for LTK and he did an amazing job. In all fairness, if SF had a measly budget it would have been a disaster because look at how much money was needed to get SF to where it was.

    Considering all the problems LTK had with the studio and no helping hand, then as an effort I would go with LTK as the greater achievement.

    The filming in SF was nothing I had not seen in other films already. It looked good but that is not why I liked the film. It was the story and because it kicked out the cornyness.

    LTK has amazing cinematography too and they used the Mexican location very well.

    The bar scene is not even a key scene in the film. If I want to go to that nit picky level, then let me tell you that I cringed in the cinema at the scene where Craig is wearing a hat at the airport with dark sunglasses in SF looking like a member of The Pet Shop Boys.





    I think certainly Adele's song is one of the great things about SF. As much as I enjoy Galdys Knight's track I don't think it reflects the "feel" of the film in the way that Skyfall does. Adele's theme is a sombre but memorable tune. A bit like parts of the film.

    Glady's is ok but it has more of an "80's pop" feel. It doesn't really indicate the mood of the film as well.

    Maybe I was being a bit hard by saying that that alone makes it superior to LTK as a whole but IMO Adele's song is one of the reasons why Skyfall is a great film.

    I do genuinely think SF is a superior film to LTK. It's got a better director at the helm (no offence to JG but Mendes is a stronger, more heavyweight film maker), it's got DC (who IMO is better than Dalton), it's got other more heavyweight actors like Ralph Feinnes, Judi Dench etc, the balance between humour and violence is more succesful than it was in LTK, the story is about M's past coming back to haunt her is good, the budget is bigger and hence the film is more impressive to look at (that IS important in a Bond film) it's not quite as Americanised in terms of its "feel" and finally the song/credit sequence is better.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I think certainly Adele's song is one of the great things about SF. As much as I enjoy Galdys Knight's track I don't think it reflects the "feel" of the film in the way that Skyfall does. Adele's theme is a sombre but memorable tune. A bit like parts of the film.

    Glady's is ok but it has more of an "80's pop" feel. It doesn't really indicate the mood of the film as well.

    Maybe I was being a bit hard by saying that that alone makes it superior to LTK as a whole but IMO Adele's song is one of the reasons why Skyfall is a great film.

    No question @Bain123 Adele is a great singer and her song is wonderful. But it fits the story as to what happens in the PTS. At that moment audiences don't know if Bond has survived so it makes sense.

    Gladys Knight's LTK song is perfect considering that the PTS finishes with the wedding of Leiter and on a happy note.

    It is much later that things gets ugly in LTK. And the song is the last glimmer of happiness before the film goes into darkness and revenge!



  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Hmm...I suppose thats a good point but, to use another example to illustrate my argument,  "We Have All The Time in The World" really captures the overall feel of the film its in. On the surface it's a happy song (i.e. being played over the montage of Bond and Tracy) but, at the same time, has a hint of sadness about it considering the outcome of the film and the fact it uses Bond's final line in the book. That's why its such a good song. It mirrors the emotional weight of the whole film perfectly and works on its own just as well. Not all that many songs in Bond do that and personally I think Adelle's SF comes closer than LTK - although I do like LTK as a song. Anyway, shouldn't this be about TWINE?   
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Hmm...I suppose thats a good point but, to use another example to illustrate my argument,  "We Have All The Time in The World" really captures the overall feel of the film its in. On the surface it's a happy song (i.e. being played over the montage of Bond and Tracy) but, at the same time, has a hint of sadness about it considering the outcome of the film and the fact it uses Bond's final line in the book. That's why its such a good song. It mirrors the emotional weight of the whole film perfectly and works on its own just as well. Not all that many songs in Bond do that and personally I think Adelle's SF comes closer than LTK - although I do like LTK as a song. Anyway, shouldn't this be about TWINE?   

    "We Have All The Time in The World" is a great song! Suits the romantic segment in the film. In fact, I love the whole Barry score. Even the gun barrel music is haunting.

    As for this being about TWINE my friend, no problem. But you did bring up LTK and I had to defend it! :)

    Talking of TWINE, the film's PTS was amazing and then it went downhill. Man, they had all the budget and studio help and still the film was a mixed affair that tried to do too much.

    And the scenes with Sophie Marceau and Brosnan were poorly executed. She was very interesting and become second fiddle to Denise Richards the renowned nuclear scientist. :)

    This was Brosnan's third film but a step back compared to his first two. I felt he was not sincere with the serious parts. I did not buy the depth. He looked most happy during the goofy gag moments.


  • Posts: 11,425
    TWINE is bad in a really dull way though. Much more interesting talking about LTK and SF, which even if you don't like them, have ambition.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:
    TWINE is bad in a really dull way though. Much more interesting talking about LTK and SF, which even if you don't like them, have ambition.

    John Glen is owed an apology because had he directed any nineties Bond, he would get the story nicely glued from beginning to end. He is way too underrated, and the action in all his Bonds was sexy.

    Glen truly understood Bond. He is the man who filmed the most famous PTS with Rog parachuting off the mountain and the Union Jack opening. The man is a legend!

    Had Glen directed TWINE, it would have been a way better film. Glen can handle light as well as dark. This is the man who could do AVTAK and then give us LTK.

    Yes Mendes is a fine director, but he needed tonnes of cash to get his vision realised for Bond. Glen could do wonders with what he was given and would just get on with it.
    He could cook up a film nicely even if the financial ingredients were missing.

    Man, but I am starting to miss AVTAK!

  • Posts: 11,425
    acoppola wrote:

    John Glen is owed an apology because had he directed any nineties Bond, he would get the story nicely glued from beginning to end. He is way too underrated, and the action in all his Bonds was sexy.

    Glen truly understood Bond. He is the man who filmed the most famous PTS with Rog parachuting off the mountain and the Union Jack opening. The man is a legend!

    Had Glen directed TWINE, it would have been a way better film. Glen can handle light as well as dark. This is the man who could do AVTAK and then give us LTK.

    I completely 100% utterly agree with you. Glen is massively massively under rated. He brought a very distinctive and unique feel to his films. It was in an sense the essence of Bondness. His absence was felt immediately with GE, which is such an inferior, drab film. It certainly would have been interesting to see what Glen might have done had he been given GE. That film is terminally awful for me, but I think Glen just might have been able to get something of quality out of it. He'd have needed to whip Brosnan into shape though and I don't know if that was his thing. I get the impression he left TIm and Rog to do their own thing to an extent and because they were so good that worked. But Brozza needed to be taken in hand and told what to do.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:

    I completely 100% utterly agree with you. Glen is massively massively under rated. He brought a very distinctive and unique feel to his films. It was in an sense the essence of Bondness. His absence was felt immediately with GE, which is such an inferior, drab film. It certainly would have been interesting to see what Glen might have done had he been given GE. That film is terminally awful for me, but I think Glen just might have been able to get something of quality out of it. He'd have needed to whip Brosnan into shape though and I don't know if that was his thing. I get the impression he left TIm and Rog to do their own thing to an extent and because they were so good that worked. But Brozza needed to be taken in hand and told what to do.

    Campbell was kind of dismissive of Glen when he did GE.

    What I dislike about the newer post 80's franchise is that newcomers disparage what has gone before. Up until that point, no one in the Bond crew would say anything bad about a predecessor because Cubby was strict and did not stand for bad mouthing.

    When the individual Blu Rays come out next year in the UK, apart from FYEO which I own on Blu, I shall be ordering Glen's other four 100 and 10%.

    I think Glen would have done a fine job with Brozza and I mean that sincerely. He is the one who made his screen tests in '86 get Cubby's approval. Glen was a master of making his actors look good.

    And I think Brozza would have been more comfortable with Glen to get the job done. If you see the EON documentary when Broz repeats what Campbell said to him : " You better be f'ing good Brosnan!."

    Glen would never talk like that to anyone and must have been great to be around.
    Broz would have benefited from having a director that stayed on with him for his tenure as Bond.

    You can thank studio politics as to why Glen had to move on. Bond needed a huge makeover as directed by the financiers yet we were always told nothing changed. Yeah right! :)

    And that makeover is evident with each film moving further and further away from the classic style.

    I thought the train sequence in OP was better than SF. It was super dangerous and Martin Grace the stunt double got badly injured. No wires back in those days that could be CGI'd out like today.

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