Your thoughts on the Zorin Miners Massacre in AVTAK?

SIULHOUETTE_MAN

What are your thoughts on the Zorin miners massacre from AVTAK where Zorin and Scarpine seemingly just flood the mine and sadistically gun down each and every one of the loyal miners?

Was this simply overkill on the part of the screenwriters/director and what purpose did it even serve in the end-up?

Roger Moore is on record as saying on a number of occasions that he didn't agree with this more violent aspects that came into the James Bond films at the end of his run as Bond.

What are your thoughts on this?

Does it recall Silva's gunning down of the defenceless Severine?

Does it recall Stamper in TND or Xenia in GE also?

Mallory

Zorin's psychotic. There's no real reason for hm to do it, as the miners would have been killed when the bomb goes off anyway.

It was just to show what an evil, psychotic villain he was. I thought it was effective in doing that.

JimThompson45

I think the scene was very much in keeping with the nature of James Bond's world, in that he finds himself confronting truly evil men.

myworldisenough

The whole scene was a tad boring for me. He could have played it more interestingly.

Samuel001

I like this scene. It's violent but well placed within the film and only makes me more pleased when Zorin finally hits the water.

actonsteve

Well, you know, some miners might have survived the bomb, flood and upcoming earthquake (joke)

Zorin was just being tidy.

Creasy47

Isn't this one of the big things that made Moore leave the franchise? I know he said he was getting old, but if I remember correctly, I remember him stating in the 'Fifty Years of Bond' magazine that came out this year that he just didn't feel like it was Bond to him anymore, mainly because of this scene.

Major_Boothroyd

I think it stands out in a good way. Until now Zorin had kind of kept his pure psycho in check and here he let's it all hang out while getting his hands dirty. I found it disturbing and wouldn't want to see it become commonplace in Bond but especially for the Moore era it is particularly unusual. Walken is the perfect actor for it too, I mean you wouldn't want Kamal Kahn or Scaramanga doing it but it works for Zorin.

JimThompson45

Major_Boothroyd wrote:

I think it stands out in a good way. Until now Zorin had kind of kept his pure psycho in check and here he let's it all hang out while getting his hands dirty. I found it disturbing and wouldn't want to see it become commonplace in Bond but especially for the Moore era it is particularly unusual. Walken is the perfect actor for it too, I mean you wouldn't want Kamal Kahn or Scaramanga doing it but it works for Zorin.

I think the scene stand out a bit more than it might otherwise because it happened during Mr. Moore's era of Bond films. It was particularly unusual in one of his films, though it did keep better to the sadism that could happen in Fleming's books.

RogueAgent

I just thought it was pure manic, gangster type Walken! And i loved it! :D

Getafix

This is one of the most memorable scenes in AVTAK and underlines what a psycho Zorin is. I think it's a good scene and plays to Walkens strengths!

I was actually thinking about this very scene only the other day. I was wondering why I actually felt more sympathy for several of the recent villains, such as LeChiffre and Silva. I think the mine scene in AVTAK leaves you no alternative but to see Zorin as evil. It provides a more simplistic black and white moral universe within the films. These days it's more complex.

JimThompson45

Getafix wrote:

This is one of the most memorable scenes in AVTAK and underlines what a psycho Zorin is. I think it's a good scene and plays to Walkens strengths!

I was actually thinking about this very scene only the other day. I was wondering why I actually felt more sympathy for several of the recent villains, such as LeChiffre and Silva. I think the mine scene in AVTAK leaves you no alternative but to see Zorin as evil. It provides a more simplistic black and white moral universe within the films. These days it's more complex.

It certainly played to Walken's strengths!

As to your other thought, I tend to find the more black and white things and people are painted in a Bond film, the less I tend to enjoy it. The stories are centered around an assassin; it just seems to me those sorts of stories work better when there is more moral ambiguity in them.

Getafix

Perhaps. I just find myself seeing the villains as the victims in the recent movies. And Bond is this sought of relentless killing machine - you can poison him, shoot him, drown him and he just pops back up and keeps on coming. It's all a bit too Terminator for my liking.

oorogers

its a Bond Film what else do you want from a Bond film. James Bond 007 license to kill it is his job to take down evil people that kill loads of people good over evil. If Zorin was not the kind of psycho that would kill all them people like that would they send in 007 no they send the local bobby

JimThompson45

Getafix wrote:

Perhaps. I just find myself seeing the villains as the victims in the recent movies. And Bond is this sought of relentless killing machine - you can poison him, shoot him, drown him and he just pops back up and keeps on coming. It's all a bit too Terminator for my liking.

Might it not be a good sign that the villains are getting interesting enough for viewers to start becoming invested in them a bit?

fjdinardo

Its one of my favorite scenes in the movie. It only worked cause Christopher Walken just played the role so well. I don't see this scene working with any other actor other then Walken.