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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Also, what happened to Bond representing british values? Stiff upper lip, Keep Calm and Carry On, that sort of thing? The British have always had a deep and unwavering respect for authority, yet Craig disregards M's orders in order to fulfill a private objective. That's not James Bond. I can only hope that in the wake of Brexit and a renewed faith in conservative principles around the globe, we will see the next iteration of Bond much closer to how he was written in the Books, and not this new age, progressive figurehead we have today.
    Haha! Spot on!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Also, what happened to Bond representing british values? Stiff upper lip, Keep Calm and Carry On, that sort of thing? The British have always had a deep and unwavering respect for authority, yet Craig disregards M's orders in order to fulfill a private objective. That's not James Bond. I can only hope that in the wake of Brexit and a renewed faith in conservative principles around the globe, we will see the next iteration of Bond much closer to how he was written in the Books, and not this new age, progressive figurehead we have today.

    Although, in the Bond novels he sometimes goes against authority too - 'TLD', OHMSS, YOLT etc.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited January 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Also, what happened to Bond representing british values? Stiff upper lip, Keep Calm and Carry On, that sort of thing? The British have always had a deep and unwavering respect for authority, yet Craig disregards M's orders in order to fulfill a private objective. That's not James Bond. I can only hope that in the wake of Brexit and a renewed faith in conservative principles around the globe, we will see the next iteration of Bond much closer to how he was written in the Books, and not this new age, progressive figurehead we have today.

    Although, in the Bond novels he sometimes goes against authority too - 'TLD', OHMSS, YOLT etc.

    True, but if I'm not mistaken, it's usually something he grapples with, or feels guilty about after the fact. With Craig he's outright talking back to M whilst getting a scolding for "Mexico City". The Connery Bond would have lowered his head and acknowledged M's authority, even if he disagreed. Even with Dalton, you felt he was at the end of his tether when he became insubordinate. With Craig, he's so cavalier about it. He may as well work freelance, or be self-employed.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Brosnan did it in GE,but then M was a woman and an accountant before,and it made sense that a 'sexist relic' would make unfavourable comments ,so it was true to how Bond would react.
    Also,respect was shown in the latter films.

    So i see where you are going with this @Mendes4Lyfe and i do agree ,especially with his blatant rudeness and then sarcasm to M in SP...
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    Also, what happened to Bond representing british values? Stiff upper lip, Keep Calm and Carry On, that sort of thing? The British have always had a deep and unwavering respect for authority, yet Craig disregards M's orders in order to fulfill a private objective. That's not James Bond. I can only hope that in the wake of Brexit and a renewed faith in conservative principles around the globe, we will see the next iteration of Bond much closer to how he was written in the Books, and not this new age, progressive figurehead we have today.

    Apologies. Double post.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Also, what happened to Bond representing british values? Stiff upper lip, Keep Calm and Carry On, that sort of thing? The British have always had a deep and unwavering respect for authority, yet Craig disregards M's orders in order to fulfill a private objective. That's not James Bond. I can only hope that in the wake of Brexit and a renewed faith in conservative principles around the globe, we will see the next iteration of Bond much closer to how he was written in the Books, and not this new age, progressive figurehead we have today.

    I felt Bond being able to break into M's flat on two occasions was so alien to what Fleming created. Bond had a fear and respect for M. For M could get him killed should he choose.

    I agree that qualities they give Bond now are weighing the character down.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Yes, there is a danger in knowing too much too soon. Ian Fleming's genius was to slowly (over the series) drip-feed the reader Bond's background and motivations.

    Interestingly enough he gave most of Bond's background in the latest novels, at the end of his literary career and of course his life.

    Hope nobody here is superstitious.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I hate to say it,but the more time goes by,the more i am finding big holes in the Craig career,maybe only QOS being the one that seems to stand up to time !!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    QOS is where I actually really warm to Craig. SF compared to QOS was like watching paint dry. Screw the critics like Mark Kermode who hate classic Bond. And Craig had the right balance with women in QOS.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Quantum still isn't explained how is it a subsidiary. I mean, is it conquered by Spectre and their chief answers directly to Blofeld? It still doesn't make sense. The latest film raised so many questions and left them unanswered. In other words, it was rushed.

    Rushed and bloated. Sadly, I fear we'll just have to accept whatever their explanation was, as I doubt we ever hear about Quantum again.

    Within the narrative of SP, explaining the link between Quantum and Spectre is extraneous. It's only fans that really care. Whatever one thinks of the story, it has no bearing on it.

    It doesn't have a bearing on it, but yes, being such a big fan of QoS, I would've enjoyed having the link fleshed out just a little bit more.

    QOS, when Mr White tells M that they have people everywhere was scary. For me the Craig era was the best in QOS, including his performance.

    Regarding SP, I hated how they were pulling things out of thin hair. I was surprised they did not surprise us that M is his mother. I resent the family link he has to Blofeld. It is pathetically presented and another nail in the coffin for the credibility of the franchise.

    Nail in the coffin? Wonder how many times that's been said over the last 50+ years? Bond will outlive us all my friend.

    Bond will survive, but studios these days want huge returns. SP is a mess for $350 million. But when you over-explore a character like Bond, then where do you have to go?

    Look at the old days of Bond when budgets were smaller and some films could make 10 to 20 times their budgets back. SP is less than three times the ratio of budget to box office.



    That doesn t matter one iota. Suppose they spend 100 dollars on the next one, and it sells fifty tickets or so, earning back ten times its budget. Does not make it an economic success.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Its shot up my list from #16 to #4 recently ....i love it...its short but so so Bondian and full of beautiful scenes and dialogue..if people think QOS is all action then they need to sit and WATCH it.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Quantum still isn't explained how is it a subsidiary. I mean, is it conquered by Spectre and their chief answers directly to Blofeld? It still doesn't make sense. The latest film raised so many questions and left them unanswered. In other words, it was rushed.

    Rushed and bloated. Sadly, I fear we'll just have to accept whatever their explanation was, as I doubt we ever hear about Quantum again.

    Within the narrative of SP, explaining the link between Quantum and Spectre is extraneous. It's only fans that really care. Whatever one thinks of the story, it has no bearing on it.

    It doesn't have a bearing on it, but yes, being such a big fan of QoS, I would've enjoyed having the link fleshed out just a little bit more.

    QOS, when Mr White tells M that they have people everywhere was scary. For me the Craig era was the best in QOS, including his performance.

    Regarding SP, I hated how they were pulling things out of thin hair. I was surprised they did not surprise us that M is his mother. I resent the family link he has to Blofeld. It is pathetically presented and another nail in the coffin for the credibility of the franchise.

    Nail in the coffin? Wonder how many times that's been said over the last 50+ years? Bond will outlive us all my friend.

    Bond will survive, but studios these days want huge returns. SP is a mess for $350 million. But when you over-explore a character like Bond, then where do you have to go?

    Look at the old days of Bond when budgets were smaller and some films could make 10 to 20 times their budgets back. SP is less than three times the ratio of budget to box office.



    That doesn t matter one iota. Suppose they spend 100 dollars on the next one, and it sells fifty tickets or so, earning back ten times its budget. Does not make it an economic success.

    You obviously don't understand the film business. It is very clear in my posts that I implied the franchise sticks to budgets that make it easier to recoup the costs.


    Like they did in the Cubby and Harry days. That way it is ensures the continued success of the series.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I'm not sure I'd say a $245 million+ budget, where roughly $30 million was spent on a car chase alone, is necessarily making it easy to recoup the costs. Bond never truly has to worry about the box office, but having a budget of that size isn't making things easier on yourself, either.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'm not sure I'd say a $245 million+ budget, where roughly $30 million was spent on a car chase alone, is necessarily making it easy to recoup the costs. Bond never truly has to worry about the box office, but having a budget of that size isn't making things easier on yourself, either.


    The Sony hacks revealed a different figure. I think the $245 million excluded the advertising and marketing. Because they promoted the film strongly.

    Cubby 's book said for a film to break even, it needs to make back 2.5 times it's budget. SP took $900 million, but, the theatres take half of that. So a profit, but not much money to finance the next film. LTK took back 5 times its budget.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    That was why I added the plus sign, because I figured like most listed budgets, it didn't account for any sort of advertising/marketing, which probably ran them another $100 million for a film this size.

    I've typically accepted that doubling a budget accounts for the "true", final budget of the film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    It depends greatly on the type of film that it is. With certain films like Paranormal Activity they spend much more to market than they do to make it.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    That was why I added the plus sign, because I figured like most listed budgets, it didn't account for any sort of advertising/marketing, which probably ran them another $100 million for a film this size.

    I've typically accepted that doubling a budget accounts for the "true", final budget of the film.

    Indeed. On a total cost budget for SP, they were hoping for 1.4 billion dollars. Because you have profit and next film budget.

    Better to spend $100 million and make $500 million. Less risk and more frequent Bond. I like 2 year gaps as they managed for decades.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Mendes4Lyfe, no doubt. The first movie in that series had a budget of a mere $15,000, so I'm sure they spent countless times more on the marketing (if it needed it, anyway; the film had some crazy word-of-mouth upon release).
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    SF did not to be connected to SP, agreed. I've never felt that this was convincing.

    As for Bond being British, the Craig era was way more invested in the classic history of the franchise than Broz's era. The '90's were focused on rehashing the classic tropes and formula, but strictly with an American action movie sensibility. Don't get me wrong, I like Broz a lot and even his first three films to varying extents, but Mendes4Lyfe's complaints on the Craig era seem kind of nonsensical. Dalton and Lazenby constantly defied authority, though Craig is certainly more indignant.
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