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DAF an overlooked masterpiece, OHMSS overrated

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    It's not the winning that's important, but the taking part etc

    I haven't read the Diamonds novel, but it's a safe bet it's a better entertainment than the movie release. Agreed the title seems questionable from a film perspective, but as I haven't read the books yet I can't really comment on their content. Let's just say that as far as the film releases go, OHMSS is a winner over it's rival here. The only saving graces it has, (DAF), is the inclusion of Jill St John, the Wint and Kidd characters and some decent sporadic action here and there, that do nothing to cover what is essentially a poor release and an embarrassment for Sean Connery, and his former greatness

    OHMSS is anything but best ever, but at least Lazenby makes for a tangible James Bond, and it is after all, a 'timeless classic' in some eyes. Savalas Blofeld, against the Charles Gray Blofeld.. You do the math
    I find Jill St. Jon/Tiffany to be one of the worst gut shots DAF dishes out.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    It's dependant on the age. St John really is a sexy lady in that for the most part, particularly when we are in Amsterdam, but somehow not quite so alluring once we get to Vegas, as Case had gone from a savvy Diamond smuggler to an air headed bimbo that didn't know one end of a gun from the other by the end of film, so in that respect, she gets a black mark, but still a nice looking woman

    It works for the most part when she's intelligent and capable, but as the film goes on, she kind of degenerates into a bit of an air head that struggles with even the most fundamental tasks. I wasn't quite sure what was going on there sometimes, if we can get past just merely being an all round good looking woman
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    If we're talking about the films, then no question OHMSS wipes the floor with DAF. Literary 007, I'm inclined to go the opposite. And Jill St. John is hot, even when she becomes a dumb bimbo at the end.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I find Jill St. Jon/Tiffany to be one of the worst gut shots DAF dishes out.

    FAG!
    Sorry, a Bill & Ted moment there... :))
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I find Jill St. Jon/Tiffany to be one of the worst gut shots DAF dishes out.

    FAG!
    Sorry, a Bill & Ted moment there... :))

    Is that kind of language seriously necessary? I feel the flag option is being used too much around here.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Aziz_Fekkesh wrote:
    If we're talking about the films, then no question OHMSS wipes the floor with DAF. Literary 007, I'm inclined to go the opposite.

    I'm sorry? Does OHMSS hit DAF out of the park in both book and film versions?

    Indubitably!
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    DAF an overlooked masterpiece? No.

    Underrated? Yes.

    I loved DAF, but then my favorite Fleming tends to be the less bombastic ones. I prefer dialogue to action sequences for the most part. I also know many of the locations used in DAF and can conjure up a very vivid picture when reading it.

    To anyone, who only read it once and was not impressed, give it another go.
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    One of the most ludicrous thread titles I've ever seen.

    Mind you initially I assumed you were talking about the films and I leapt in here to give you both barrels. As its the books I'll cut you a little more slack as the book version of DAF isn't quite as bad as the film.

    However it is certainly the weakest of the early period novels (CR-FRWL) and to be honest if we exclude the short story collections there's only really TSWLM and TMWTGG that are worse as novels.

    OHMSS smashes it out of the park in every respect and whilst DAF has some good scenes and a good heroine it's villains are extremely weak, the plot isn't the most thrilling and overall it just doesn't hang together that well.

    OHMSS on the other hand has a very strong leading lady and villain, an epic plot, sensational action and a classic ending. I have a constant dilemma as to which is the best OHMSS or FRWL (with MR occasionally biting at their heels) but DAF isn't in the same league at all.

    @TheWizardOfice is so correct.
    Only the lobotomised would put DAF remotely in the league of OHMSS. Book or film!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Villiers53 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    One of the most ludicrous thread titles I've ever seen.

    Mind you initially I assumed you were talking about the films and I leapt in here to give you both barrels. As its the books I'll cut you a little more slack as the book version of DAF isn't quite as bad as the film.

    However it is certainly the weakest of the early period novels (CR-FRWL) and to be honest if we exclude the short story collections there's only really TSWLM and TMWTGG that are worse as novels.

    OHMSS smashes it out of the park in every respect and whilst DAF has some good scenes and a good heroine it's villains are extremely weak, the plot isn't the most thrilling and overall it just doesn't hang together that well.

    OHMSS on the other hand has a very strong leading lady and villain, an epic plot, sensational action and a classic ending. I have a constant dilemma as to which is the best OHMSS or FRWL (with MR occasionally biting at their heels) but DAF isn't in the same league at all.

    @TheWizardOfice is so correct.
    Only the lobotomised would put DAF remotely in the league of OHMSS. Book or film!

    You'll find that the Wizard is often right if you hang around here long enough!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Villiers53 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    One of the most ludicrous thread titles I've ever seen.

    Mind you initially I assumed you were talking about the films and I leapt in here to give you both barrels. As its the books I'll cut you a little more slack as the book version of DAF isn't quite as bad as the film.

    However it is certainly the weakest of the early period novels (CR-FRWL) and to be honest if we exclude the short story collections there's only really TSWLM and TMWTGG that are worse as novels.

    OHMSS smashes it out of the park in every respect and whilst DAF has some good scenes and a good heroine it's villains are extremely weak, the plot isn't the most thrilling and overall it just doesn't hang together that well.

    OHMSS on the other hand has a very strong leading lady and villain, an epic plot, sensational action and a classic ending. I have a constant dilemma as to which is the best OHMSS or FRWL (with MR occasionally biting at their heels) but DAF isn't in the same league at all.

    @TheWizardOfice is so correct.
    Only the lobotomised would put DAF remotely in the league of OHMSS. Book or film!

    You'll find that the Wizard is often right if you hang around here long enough!

    Wise words indeed Draggers.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    If you think this conversation is bad I remember someone once put DAD ahead of OHMSS.

    You should have seen @Wizard's response. It was epic!! :))
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If you think this conversation is bad I remember someone once put DAD ahead of OHMSS.

    You should have seen @Wizard's response. It was epic!! :))

    Did that really happen? I don't recall it. I suppose my mind has blanked it out for my own sanity.
  • PerdoggPerdogg
    Posts: 686
    Aziz_Fekkesh wrote:
    Not sure if I'll find anyone who agrees with this, but I find DAF such a well-written book and having such a good story that the film version really raises my ire. Likewise, I never found Fleming's OHMSS to be that great--the film improves on many plot points and the love story with Tracy is so sidelined that it kind of comes out of nowhere, unlike in the film.

    Could you give examples?

  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    edited June 2013 Posts: 403
    I still stand by my OP. There's not much more I want to add (I think I've said everything I wanted to in my previous posts) but I think DAF has such a good flow and Fleming's prose is excellent. Granted, I read both of them years ago, but remember being engaged by how different the DAF book was from the film. In the case of OHMS, I found it to be inferior to the film because the love story was shoehorned in for no reason and I found the Tracy/Bond relationship to be weak and no credible. And if you thought that the Spangs were lame, OHMSS's Blofled was very nearly a non-entity; no menace, no presence, not even an entirely convincing plan. And the unravelling of the plot is quite boring and comes out of nowhere. Overall, pretty disappointing.

    As for film versions, obviously OHMSS blows DAF out of the water. DAF was only usurped as the worst film in the series after 30 years when DAD was released.
  • timmertimmer
    edited June 2013 Posts: 4,622
    I've read DAF several times. It always engrosses. I love the book, but I love all the Fleming books. I don't rank them, but consider them rather as part of a greater 14 volume omnibus.
    The Spang brothers I don't think are lame villians per se. What's missing from DAF compared with other Flemings IMO, is that Bond has no meaningful relationship with these villains. They barely know him.
    Fleming concentrates Bond's relationships on allies such as Leiter, especially Leiter, and to lesser extent, Ernie Cuneo ( the jockey Tingaling Bell gets a lot of play too) and very much develops the Bond Tiffany relationship, especially later in the book. The villains serve more as back-drop including the lead pair. Just the way Fleming chose to write this story. I don't think its bad or good. It's still vintage Fleming. Although it may not grab as much as Bond vs pick-your-favourite-Fleming-supervillain.

    ==I can buy the argument that OHMSS was a better presentation of the OHMSS story than even the book was. The film was superb and captured the best elements of the book and I think even improved upon the story in some ways, especially the Bond-Tracy romance.
    Both book and film are excellent.
    As Fleming books go though, OHMSS I think is more of a grabber than DAF, but I hesitate to call it better. It's just different. You Only Live Twice is also very different as is Casino Royale and even From Russia With Love.
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