MASS KILLINGS AT SCHOOL in Newtown, Connecticut, USA

1356

Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Yeah, there are other ways to kill people so what's the point in getting rid of one of the most common ways? (sarcasm).

    The answer to this, like most answers to problems, is not a simple single thing.

    1) Guns are too easy to get in America.
    2) The right to sell an assault weapon is nonsense.
    3) Sick people should be undergoing treatment.
    4) 'Security' should not mean video cameras with no one watching the monitors- we have to employ REAL PEOPLE as security guards.

    But like I said, all this results in a net profit loss all around, so it won't likely change in my lifetime...
  • Jesus guys- I just read a rumor that the Westboro Baptist Church has plans to show up at the funeral.....
    is there anything we can do about this??? :-&
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    This group is a real embarassment to America. They protest funerals for slain military members and various victims of other numerous tragedies (i.e. victims in the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords). For those not familiar with the Westboro Baptist Church, they're reasoning behind these protests is that God is punishing America becasue of America's tolerance of homosexuals. Anyone with any sort of rational mind thinks that at best this a group of kool-aid drinking idiots who are just trying to draw attention to themselves. At worst, they're very disruptive at the most inconvienent times.

    Law requires them to be a block away from the funeral, although various counter-protesters, including motorcycle gangs have kept them further back in the past.

    Surprisingly, nothing violent has come out of the Westboro Baptist Church protests yet, but I fear that day will come rather sooner than later.
  • Being a Canadian, it's at best puzzling to read some of the user's comments on, say, CNN. At worst, it's depressing and makes you think that there's no hope for the human race.

    My girlfriend was very depressed yesterday because of something that happened online. She was upset by the shooting - what human being isn't affected by the loss of the most innocent and most helpless in our society? - and she made a comment on Facebook along the lines of "Jesus, if even this isn't enough then would would have to happen to make some people change their minds about gun culture?".

    Her American friends, ones that in the US would be considered progressive, unleashed a sh*tstorm of defensiveness and hostility. One said that any person who even suggests that Americans should have a DISCUSSION of whether or not changes to gun laws should be made would automatically be deleted as a friend. Another got really angry saying that anyone outside of the US has no right to "lecture" Americans on guns. Another posted completely inaccurate "facts" about gun crimes and when another friend provided a few links to real facts the other person kept repeating her untrue stories. Another said she always carries a handgun because hey, you never know, that homeless person begging for change outside of her office building might decide to try to kill her one morning (in front of the hundreds of other people entering the building at the same time as her?)! Another said that if all the teachers had been carrying concealed weapons they could have stopped the massacre from happening, as if regular people can suddenly switch into being Rambo in the middle of an unexpected situation in the real world.

    I'm not trying to be preachy, but people of every society have to decide what kind of a place they want to live in. When you look at how safe or unsafe other places are, and how the laws affect those levels of safety, why in the world *wouldn't* you want to replicate the safer communities?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I dont even know how this counts as news anymore.

    America has no desire to stop selling guns on every street corner so why is there shock when this happens with such increasing regularity?

    The hackneyed old 'but the constitution states every citizen has the right to bear arms' argument is also pretty wearisome. When was that drawn up? It probably said at the time every white citizen had the right to keep slaves but that was repealed. If the constitution had been drawn up in the middle ages it would have said the earth is flat does that mean you would have to believe that forever?

    The constitution is just a document drawn up by man. And what was common sense and implacable logic 200 years ago may very well not be now. I dont see why it has to be set in stone. But then when you think about how much the NRA puts into political parties its all pretty clear. I dont think the families of people shot by a lunatic can muster similar billions in lobbying funds.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2012 Posts: 6,304
    Being a Canadian, it's at best puzzling to read some of the user's comments on, say, CNN. At worst, it's depressing and makes you think that there's no hope for the human race.

    My girlfriend was very depressed yesterday because of something that happened online. She was upset by the shooting - what human being isn't affected by the loss of the most innocent and most helpless in our society? - and she made a comment on Facebook along the lines of "Jesus, if even this isn't enough then would would have to happen to make some people change their minds about gun culture?".

    Her American friends, ones that in the US would be considered progressive, unleashed a sh*tstorm of defensiveness and hostility. One said that any person who even suggests that Americans should have a DISCUSSION of whether or not changes to gun laws should be made would automatically be deleted as a friend. Another got really angry saying that anyone outside of the US has no right to "lecture" Americans on guns. Another posted completely inaccurate "facts" about gun crimes and when another friend provided a few links to real facts the other person kept repeating her untrue stories. Another said she always carries a handgun because hey, you never know, that homeless person begging for change outside of her office building might decide to try to kill her one morning (in front of the hundreds of other people entering the building at the same time as her?)! Another said that if all the teachers had been carrying concealed weapons they could have stopped the massacre from happening, as if regular people can suddenly switch into being Rambo in the middle of an unexpected situation in the real world.

    Those aren't progressive/liberal American arguments. They're conservative/NRA ones.

    Most liberals in the US have been and are appalled that (1) the assault weapons ban signed by President Clinton was allowed to expire after ten years by Republicans in Congress under pressure from the NRA lobbyists and (2) the conservative-majority US Supreme Court recently held that there is an individual right to bear arms, not merely that right for a "well-regulated militia."
  • Posts: 1,314
    I hate the way yanks class things as one of two things: conserbative and liberal as though both are derigatory labels. Changing Americas frankly idiotic gun laws and casual attitude to violence isn't either. It's progressive.

    I speak as a brit from the outside looking in, and I have to say to any pro gun Americans, even with the second amendment, is it really worth it?

    Is it worth going through this every 4-6 months? At what point do you stop and think, "maybe with our changing society we need to rethink"

    Does a civilised society really have the "need" to allow every to be able to carry something to kill each other?

    It's like the bronze age ideals with modern tech.

    Sorry, worrying, depressing and too familiar.
  • I wish I had all the answers, but I think the issue isn't so much 'being allowed to have a gun' as much as it's just too easy for the wrong people to get them
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I wish I had all the answers, but I think the issue isn't so much 'being allowed to have a gun' as much as it's just too easy for the wrong people to get them

    The latter being impossible to differentiate between.
  • Sadly, true
  • It's easy from an outside perspective to think this is a regular occurence in our country. The fact of the matter is, it isn't

    I hate the general misconception sometimes from some countries that events like these are 'only in America'. Bullshit. We're hardly on our own for these kinds of things, but if it happens here, it always becomes more prominent and warrants greater attention. Yes, it's recent after the Colorado shootings and only five years on from the Virginia Tech massacre but actually these things are very few and far between and it's nothing like a regular event in our country as some may view it

    There's really not much else to be said on this issue, except give our thoughts and prayers to the families involved, and at such a difficult time coming up towards end of year. This won't be the first time we have witnessed such an atrocity, and it won't be the last. The gun laws are such, that almost anyone can get hold of a firearm, regardless of being mentally incompetent, and we don't have the stricter laws of say The United Kingdom where it's much more difficult to own a firearm, and checks are made for those who wish to purchase. There was a big overhaul following the Hungerford incident in 1987 I believe

    Until laws in this country become more rigorous, events such as Friday will continue to occur, and that's what worries me a bit too much. Once again, my thoughts go out to the parents and families of those who lost their lives at this most difficult time
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2012 Posts: 6,304
    Matt007 wrote:
    I hate the way yanks class things as one of two things: conserbative and liberal as though both are derigatory labels. Changing Americas frankly idiotic gun laws and casual attitude to violence isn't either. It's progressive.

    I speak as a brit from the outside looking in

    Progressive equals liberal in the US (we only have two significant political parties), and frankly, the progressives in the US are a lot more liberal than President Obama is. Look at our drone strikes and Guantanamo, which most progressives oppose.

    An overwhelming majority of NRA members support background checks for gun purchases.

    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr006-12.shtml

    The problem is that the gun lobbyists do not--they see any restrictions (no matter how logical) on gun ownership as a "slippery slope" toward more gun control laws. And the gun lobbyists are aided and abetted by our very conservative-leaning Supreme Court.

  • The World of Tomorrow - The more I look at the modern world the more I fear for our children's future. Conflict all over the Globe, Corporations, Banks & Governments manipulating the economy by placing unrealistic values on non-existent assets, a generation of young people leaving further education with huge unmanageable debts, employers asking more & more from fewer workers, employees feeling less & less secure as their wages flat line & inflation increases, businesses & even nations failing week on week, yet the ruling classes seem blind to the possibility that our society & their cushy existence could be on the verge of collapse.

    I'm sorry if I seem a bit melancholy at this festive time, but there are so many disaffected people, especially the young, that another tragedy like the School massacre can only be a matter of months, weeks or even days away.

    If I have a prayer for this time it would be to paraphrase John Lennon "Imagine theirs no possessions, no countries, no religion, no hell below us, above us only sky, a brotherhood of man & woman, living in peace".

    I'm reminded of "Man of La Mancha" a musical who's principle song is "The Impossible Dream" which is a really good inspirational song. I believe in humanity but I also believe in the existence of evil which I think is wining.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I believe in humanity but I also believe in the existence of evil which I think is wining.
    Actually.... we live in one of the least violent times mankind has ever known. Yes, right now. Even counting these horrible shooter-nutjobs.
    Atrocities get greater press than ever before, yet the actual instances are far fewer than you'd think.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html
    Evil is not winning, it just hangs on so fiercely is all.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    I believe in humanity but I also believe in the existence of evil which I think is wining.
    Actually.... we live in one of the least violent times mankind has ever known. Yes, right now. Even counting these horrible shooter-nutjobs.
    Atrocities get greater press than ever before, yet the actual instances are far fewer than you'd think.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html
    Evil is not winning, it just hangs on so fiercely is all.

    I think evil comes in many forms, it doesn't necessarily have to involve violence, the stress created by idiotic layers of bureaucracy & unrealistic demands made on individuals is making so many people live in a state of deepening depression.

    With regards violence I think we are becoming a lot more desensitised to it in the news because as you say there is greater coverage, 24/7 in fact.

    I would say to you however, ask any grieving parent who's lost a child in Newtown, Connecticut if we live in a less violent world? I think you know the answer.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    This is the perfect time to post this magnificently on the nose video:
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I think evil comes in many forms, it doesn't necessarily have to involve violence, the stress created by idiotic layers of bureaucracy & unrealistic demands made on individuals is making so many people live in a state of deepening depression.
    A form of evil to be sure.
    I would say to you however, ask any grieving parent who's lost a child in Newtown, Connecticut if we live in a less violent world? I think you know the answer.
    Yeah, and my Brother-in-law might agree as he escaped being killed in Manhattan on 9-11 (he worked in a building next to the WTC).

    Despite these events, despite corporate greed & political folly, it's not the Dark Ages....
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 129
    chrisisall wrote:
    I think evil comes in many forms, it doesn't necessarily have to involve violence, the stress created by idiotic layers of bureaucracy & unrealistic demands made on individuals is making so many people live in a state of deepening depression.
    A form of evil to be sure.
    I would say to you however, ask any grieving parent who's lost a child in Newtown, Connecticut if we live in a less violent world? I think you know the answer.
    Yeah, and my Brother-in-law might agree as he escaped being killed in Manhattan on 9-11 (he worked in a building next to the WTC).

    Despite these events, despite corporate greed & political folly, it's not the Dark Ages....

    Sorry but have to quote Dickens:

    "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way"

    (Tale of Two Cities)

    Basically don't believe all that the authorities say, always question & never accept what you know is wrong.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Words fail me on this im afraid! Yet again another senseless mass murder in a school enviroment. The gun laws need sorting in the US surely? If your saying its more important to own a gun than to protect life? The world is going mad! I know there are countries out there that have a far worse reputation than the US! But you have a democracy and duty and responcibility to get this done.

    Sincere condolences to all the people who have sadly lost innocent loved ones.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The right of a 6 year old girl to be able to attend school in safety completely outweighs the right of the ordinary citizen to own automatic firearms in my opinion. If this isn't a fork in the road for the American public, if this isn't enough to make them change their ideas regarding the ownership of guns, then nothing will ever change there.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    SaintMark wrote:
    The right of a 6 year old girl to be able to attend school in safety completely outweighs the right of the ordinary citizen to own automatic firearms in my opinion.
    Completely agree.
    SaintMark wrote:
    If this isn't a fork in the road for the American public, if this isn't enough to make them change their ideas regarding the ownership of guns, then nothing will ever change there.
    It won't change. As horrifying as this particular incident is, a much smaller one before it made me realize that Right wingers rule this country & maybe always will:
    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/01/13/jury-deliberating-in-uzi-death-trial/
    An 8 year old boy was handed a loaded Uzi by his father (an educated & respected trauma surgeon, no less) at a gun show here in Massachusetts and while the father was proudly taping the moment his Son accidentally shot the top of his own head off from the unexpected kickback.
    No laws were changed as a result of it.
    The nuts run our particular nuthouse. 8-|
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 129
    As Brit's we sometimes have a problem getting our heads around the US gun culture, we don't even arm our police except specialist officers.

    America might as well be bashing it's collective head against a wall if it thinks it could ever get control of the problem, Stable door & horse bolting come to mind.

    I've read that there are over 300 Million Firearms in the USA & that in 32 states there are no ID checks when purchasing weapons. Ammunition can be bought from a Supermarket along with the weekly shop?

    "HELLO" USA! There are enough guns in circulation for 9 out of 10 of your citizens, now that's what I call potential weapons of mass destruction.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    It won't change. As horrifying as this particular incident is, a much smaller one before it made me realize that Right wingers rule this country & maybe always will:
    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/01/13/jury-deliberating-in-uzi-death-trial/
    An 8 year old boy was handed a loaded Uzi by his father (an educated & respected trauma surgeon, no less) at a gun show here in Massachusetts and while the father was proudly taping the moment his Son accidentally shot the top of his own head off from the unexpected kickback.
    No laws were changed as a result of it.
    The nuts run our particular nuthouse. 8-|

    Thats pretty horrifying. Not the kid shooting himself particularly but the idea that a country has a system in place that allows someone to qualify as a doctor who thinks giving an Uzi to an 8 year old is a good idea. Would you want that guy doing open heart surgery on you?

    I used to worry that George Bush had his finger on the button but it seems going by this that any American in that position is as scary as North Korea or Iran having nukes. The only countries where children are handed guns on a regular basis are the foothills of Afghanistan or war torn, lawless African states. Are these what the most powerful country on earth is modelling itself on?
  • Posts: 12,526
    As Brit's we sometimes have a problem getting our heads around the US gun culture, we don't even arm our police except specialist officers.

    America might as well be bashing it's collective head against a wall if it thinks it could ever get control of the problem, Stable door & horse bolting come to mind.

    I've read that there are over 300 Million Firearms in the USA & that in 32 states there are no ID checks when purchasing weapons. Ammunition can be bought from a Supermarket along with the weekly shop?

    "HELLO" USA! There are enough guns in circulation for 9 out of 10 of your citizens, now that's what I call potential weapons of mass destruction.

    That is some very scary statistics!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2012 Posts: 17,800

    Thats pretty horrifying. Not the kid shooting himself particularly but the idea that a country has a system in place that allows someone to qualify as a doctor who thinks giving an Uzi to an 8 year old is a good idea.
    Thank you!
    Right after that I expected to see state after state adopt no-kids-at-gun-show laws at least.
    Nothing. :O
    When I think of the kids in my country that have paid the price for this kind of immature lunacy I want to cry.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Unbelievable.

    Just watching BBC News and they were interviewing a gun store owner who said 'this has been the best weekend my business has ever known.'

    When the general reaction to this tragedy is everyone rushes out and buys more guns you have to say the battle is already lost.

    In its own way America is no less disturbing than North Korea or Iran.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2012 Posts: 17,800
    In its own way America is no less disturbing than North Korea
    I wouldn't go that far.
    But yeah, as Lev said in Armageddon, we are a bunch of cowboys...
  • I'll apologise in advance, but America, you really need to give yourself a big slap & wake up, on average you don't know anything of the rest of the world, you seem to an outsider to be living in a constant state of fear, you're afraid of your own shadow.

    In spec ops we used to have an anachronism, ISP or In Situ Procurement, basically if there's a shed full of weapons easily to hand then why carry in country, in America these weapons are so easily available it's a joke.

    Yet days later we are hearing the same old rhetoric from the Gun Lobby, they're like a broken record, they think because they have these weapons they're safe, but have you seen some of these guys, fat, unfit, myopic, they're more of a danger to each other than your average perp.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I'll apologise in advance, but America, you really need to give yourself a big slap & wake up, on average you don't know anything of the rest of the world, you seem to an outsider to be living in a constant state of fear, you're afraid of your own shadow.
    I tend to agree with this assessment.

    Almost half my country voted for Romney.


  • chrisisall wrote:
    I'll apologise in advance, but America, you really need to give yourself a big slap & wake up, on average you don't know anything of the rest of the world, you seem to an outsider to be living in a constant state of fear, you're afraid of your own shadow.
    I tend to agree with this assessment.

    Almost half my country voted for Romney.


    I know, it frightened me & a lot of my friends that Romney could have become President.

    Thank heaven for small mercies.
Sign In or Register to comment.