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@everyone else
Bottom line is when things like this happen it is a terrible occurrence, and I hate how people overseas look to the US and think this happens every day. It doesn't. Stop looking at my country and judging us by only the negatives. I find it laughable when people who don't even live in this country lecture the U.S. on gun control.
Gun Control doesn't equal Crime Control. There is no way to stop crime, and even if we had the strictest gun control in the world, this massacre would have still happened. There is no way to take a gun out of a criminal's hands. He will find a way if he is truly hellbent.
I am originally from the area, minutes from the town.
So many affected by this.
Master Dahark, there are teams showing up to assist in preventing any further grief by this misguided hypocrites.
You are so blinkered, this 20 year would never have had the chance in Britain because they're simply aren't these type of weapons available to average citizens.
I've studied world politics to degree level & believe me, America has too types of political leaning, right of centre (Democrats) & very right of centre (Republicans), if you think Obama is left wing you should come & live in the UK, for gods sake he took out Bin Laden in a foreign country.
Things like this massacre of innocents seems to happen all too often in the USA, yes they happen here in the UK but maybe once every 10 to 15 years not every 6 months as its beginning to seem in the USA.
I agree that a truly convicted person will find a way, but the firearm is still the simplest way for the most ordinary of individual to kill a large number of people in a short period of time, this young man was screwed up big style, but if the guns hadn't been available with easy access, I'd wager this tragedy would not have occurred.
9,146 gun related homicides in a year.
You're right, limiting access to guns would do nothing to help.
Take a look at this as well. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337221/a-timeline-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-since-columbine/
62 mass shootings in 30 years. Because that is a ringing endorsement for the current gun control laws.
You cannot compare England to the United States. Our country is bigger than yours, and we have a higher population too. More people= more crazy people.
Oh really?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-by-35/
Tell me again how well those bans are working for ya. It seems that bad guys in England still have guns despite your bans. Face it, bans don't work.
Not comparing England to the US, I don't live in England nor do I think comparisons of legislation are fair. However, I just feel that firearm homicide rates that are 19.5 times higher than countries of similar socio-economic status, along with firearm homicide rates for 15-year olds to 24-year olds that are 42.7 times higher, show that there is a serious problem.
And I'm sorry if I'm going to offend anyone, but those who believe that a stricter gun control in the United States is a bad thing, they're just nuts. How many massacres are needed for those stupid politicians and people to finally wake up? How in Earth is acceptable a guy with a gun killing harmless children? Sorry, for those who say that gun control wouldn't help to stop these tragedies doesn't want to see the truth. But a vast majority of Americans live in a perfect world, where nothing needs to be changed.
Stricter gun control isn't the definite solution, because there's no definite solution for any problem. But it can help.
I'm going to give the example of my own country: Portugal, which may have many flaws on it's legal system ( letting criminals out, just because they're famous politicians, footballers, TV persons, all those things), but it has one of the stricter gun control laws in the world. And, mass killings like of those of past Friday, never happened in Portugal, at least since 1974, the year when democracy was restored. Until 1980, when democracy finally settled down in my country, there were many tense moments ( attempted coup d' états to bring the far-right back to power, far-left trying to get political power by violence), but, even on that time, during those turbulent times, nothing of this caliber happened. Why? Because of our strict laws relating to guns which date back from the 60's.
I'm going to say it again: Stricter gun control isn't the definite solution, but it can help stopping those mad men from purchasing guns and killing innocents.
The difference in the UK is that a firearms related crime could be for any number of reasons, including being in possession of an airsoft replica in a public place, however it does not involve killing children in a school or cinema goers enjoying a night out.
Say what you like but like you said you don't live here & I don't live there so we'll agree to disagree.
By this I can tell you have no clear idea of the politics of our own country.
I will risk redundancy by pointing out (from my Yank POV) that Obama is NOT Left OR Liberal, he is MODERATE RIGHT. I'm sick of pointing this out to my fellow countrymen who are so adamantly and antiquatedly fixated on the whole anti-Commie thing to the point of embracing political ignorance over WORLD REALITY. You are correct; it's not every day. More like every 200 days. A black & white statement, you must watch FoxNews.
He might have had a harder time of acquiring the weapons & been detected somehow, he might have had to settle for less 'effective' weapons, he might have decided to use a home made bomb & accidentally blown himself up for his lack of brainpower in the fabrication, YOU DON'T KNOW.
In ANY case, making it harder for a sick person to carry out taking as many with him as he can when he plans to check out cannot be A BAD THING.
If it can help, it's worth it.
Not "narrowly." Obama won by more votes over Romney than Bush did over Kerry. And Bush tried to claim a mandate then.
A clear majority of NRA members favor more gun restrictions...see my earlier post in this thread. The problem is that the NRA lobbyists don't want any restrictions on guns, ever, not even mental health checks or bans on buying guns by convicted felons.
And the NRA's stance, my right wing friend, is a crazy stance indeed.
Oh boy, more Fox News bashing. 8-| Fox News is right, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and all the rest of them are far left. The only reason why Fox gets bashed is because they aren't left leaning.
Calling Obama Moderate Right is laughable. The things he has done to promote a larger government is far from right, my friend.
Look, taking guns out of the hands of people who aren't, for the lack of a better word, evil is not going to cut crime. Florida has nearly 1,000,000 concealed carry permits issued, and guess what? Crime rates have dropped because criminal scumbags have to think twice about committing a crime because that person that they are robbing may just put a bullet in between their eyes, and that's a good thing. The world is a better place without criminals, my friend. Good people have the right to defend themselves against those scumbags.
So let's say we ban guns 100%. Big brother and the FBI comes-a-knocking and takes all of them away and melts down every last gun in America (Just kidding, Eric Holder would ship them all to Mexico again.) The only thing is, they will take them away from the good guys because no criminal is going to give up that easy. So, the good guys don't have guns, and criminals are clinging onto them. Making anything illegal makes people want to do it even more. Prohibition ring a bell? Let's say somehow we do get the criminals to give up their guns. They're criminals! They will find a way to get them back! They will smuggle them over the border and start a black market. Let's say they don't do that. We have something called a 3D printer now. People will be able to print guns out of plastic in their own homes! (Look it up!) Then we'll have to ban 3D printers! People who use them for their jobs, engineers, designers, machinists, will mot be able to use them anymore just because the bad guys abuse them. CNC machines can make guns! Let's outlaw them too! Where does it all this end? It's so frustrating that I may not be able to participate in my favorite sport (target shooting, clay birds, you name it) all because it is impossible to get the tool to use in said sport! ALL BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE TOLD ME THAT BECAUSE THIS GUY ABUSED THEM, I CAN'T HAVE THEM EITHER.
What if someone breaks into my house and threatens to kill me? What am I supposed to do? Let him kill me? Lock myself in a room and let him steal everything I own? He is a criminal, the scum of this earth, I have the right to defend myself and my family.
Everyday, literally BILLIONS of people do not commit a crime with a gun, and just because a select few abuse them, none of us can have ours. That is the sort of train of thought I am sick of in this country. One person messes up, so we're gonna punish you too.
I will argue this to death, because it is what I believe in. It is how I was raised. I have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If anyone threatens any of those rights, you better believe I am going to defend them.
I am just going to stop there because I can do this all night.
Let's be honest, that's all pretty ridiculous. I don't think anyone has suggested banning guns 100%. No one thinks that would work. But, that seems to be what people are afraid of and why they resist gun restrictions so fiercely. The aim isn't to restrict the freedom of normal people, but to lessen the chances of a psychopath getting hold of a weapon.
What if the restrictions were a mandatory mental health check? Mandatory safety training? Restrictions on mental health patients and felons? Does that threaten your "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?
There is no context to these statistics. They might be thirty years old. 1993 might be mentioned but there is no real timeline. Someone could have cut and pasted this from an article thirty years old.
In fact the 'New' in 'New' statistics has been crossed out.
Sorry, I don't meant to jump on a high horse, but the stuff I'm reading on the internet from pro gun supporters and right wingers is truly upsetting. Sort yourselves out.
Peace everyone, just a big cuddly socialist here leaving my two cents.
I'll give you a scenario, the scumbags comes to rob you, they know your armed, been watching, seen you go to the range, by ammo at the store. They come armed as well, brake into your house, you go for your gun, it's dark you fire, one of them goes down, the rest panic & start firing, all hell breaks loss. You manage to kill the perps, the smoke dies down, only for you to find that a stray bullet has kill a member of your family.
I've been in fire fights in War, believe me they are never straight forward, they always end in tragedy for someone.
I've killed enemy combatants in war, I had a mandate you might say, as you would in protecting your house, but believe me if your a normal guy, it never leaves you, guns always escalate violence, period!
I blame sh*t like The Kardashians for appearing to be aspirational and the glorification of gang violence, it's all a f*cking load of BS. A decaying culture + social displacement + access to weaponary is quite simply - bad news. I don't limit this to the US, I think the UK has major social problems, mainly because our mainstream media is dripfed from the US, all for capital gain obviously. The only advantage we have is a much tighter hold on gun culture, although in the bigger cities there are incidents between gangs, fighting like rats in a ditch over some piss.
I think there's a lot in what you say, I mean in the UK we've got a generation of young adults who believe they're owed a certain standard of life, more of whom vote on X-Factor than in the general election.
I think this is a social issue, your right about the underclass, all stems from the idea that capitalism is the best form of economics, yet it's not reasonable to expect infinite growth.
Our whole system is based on an illusion, the working class are exploited, values are placed on assets that simply don't exist as has been all too obvious in recent years, hence the world financial meltdown, we are peddled a constant stream of images of a life we're all supposed to aspire too, look at any magazine, they're full of adverts for things that scream, buy me & your life will be better.
I'm sorry to be a doom monger but I don't think it's going to get any better anytime soon.
Couldn't agree more and the problem is most people see it as black and white and won't budge an inch. It certainly won't be getting better for a long while.
I've just noticed that Channel 4 have immediately commissioned a Dispatches on the Newtown killings. Media irresponsibilty, yet another increasing problem. The mythologising of killers continues.
I have to agree with this and that may be the key cause of the 2011 riots (thank god guns wern't available during that). Due to the recession/cuts the financial tap was turned off. What they felt entitled too was barred to them.
Therefore they resorted to other means.
Maybe you could argue that the gun lobby are right about this, not me however, with all the weapons in the USA, I think in a total break down of society the more likely scenario would be a cross fire blood bath on the scale of Rwanda x 10.
As I get older, I'm a lot less materialistic than in my youth, I think you reassess life sometimes, to me family & friends are more important, I say enjoy the little things, a good film, a nice meal, a glass of fine wine & good company.
Treasure these moments, you never know how long you've got.
http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5
Gun discussions in the US are about NRA suppression of any dissenting voices. Rather fascist, no?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/17/is-the-gun-lobby-invincible/even-friends-must-toe-the-line-or-face-wrath
Let's say we don't. Let's just ban military grade hardware from civilian use, okay? I'd be willing to let go of my claymores, my 50 cal & my SAM launcher & just defend my home with a plain old PPK, how about you?
Or are you routinely repelling squads of dudes with hi-tek weaponry?
Please.
I like BBC World News myself.
If you're a republican, you'll love Fox News. :))
But then, they are a dying breed. Most folk calling themselves 'Republican' currently are actually far-right wing NeoCons. The Democrats have filled the moderate Conservative vacuum. The actual Left in America is down to a couple of million wishful thinkers, I'm afraid.
I gave up on Sky TV in the UK because of it's political bias, they show Fox News, first time I saw it I thought it was one of those satirical news shows, you can't take it seriously, it'd be quite hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that some DO take it seriously.
What do you expect however from a Murdoch owned enterprise, if you've seen what his newspapers in the UK have been up to in recent times, bribing of police, hacking phones of celebrities & the Royal Family et all, this guy thinks he's above the law, but his time is running out, sooner or later it's going to stick to him, that is unless he dies, he didn't look too well when he was grilled at the Leveson enquiry.
The editor & others from the know defunct "News of the World" are on trial next September, my guess is that this will open a whole new can of worms. If it looks likely that Rebekah Brooks will go to jail, I don't think even the £11 million pay off from Murdoch will stop her becoming a snitch & implicating Murdoch in exchange for a softer sentence.
Hopefully this vile man will eventually have his comeuppance.
Nice nod friend, TND, closer to Murdoch than the character they based it on at the time.
FYI Don't know if your aware but that character was based on Robert Maxwell another UK press baron, famous for falling overboard of his luxury yacht after running up massive debt's & raiding the Mirror Newspapers Pension fund. He once said "If you owe the bank a million you've got a problem, owe the bank a 100 million, they've got a problem". Well I guess they solved the problem, there were loads of conspiracy theories as I remember, so I guess that's why the Bond team latched on to it.