SPECTRE Production Timeline

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Comments

  • edited April 2014 Posts: 15,218
    Ludovico wrote:
    And you did not address my previous comment about 1)the fact that casting a star as a Bond girl is a fairly rare occurrence that would be contrary to the trend started with Craig's tenure so far

    If they never break formula, then can we be sure that for Bond 24, "this time it's personal" ? Can we be sure Thomas Newman is back ? Etc... :)
    Ludovico wrote:
    and 2)there is not a shred of reliable evidence about this particular casting.

    what is the evidence for the Ejiofor rumor ? It's much more accepted here it seems. JWestBrook would have been criticized for not putting it as a title I'm sure !

    I am not talking about breaking the formula or not, we are talking here about a specific approach to casting, which has been constant since CR, at least when it comes to Bond girls, and which has had been fairly consistent in the franchise. And we don't know, if they will keep on with the "formula", whatever you mean by this, or not in Bond 24.

    And I am not sure about Ejiofor and I do not think anybody should be, neither am I enthusiastic about his potential casting, knowing very little about the actor. That said, there is some amount of evidence regarding his candidacy as a Bond villain: 1)the rumour has not been officially denied, 2)the actor himself refuses to answer questions about it and 3)his casting, should it be true, would be consistent with the casting of Javier Bardem and to a lesser extend Ralph Fiennes. Added to this that unlike Penelope Cruz, Ejiofor was never the subject of a rumor about a role in a Bond movie (as the villain, Bond himself, what have you) that has been proven false. It may be false still, nothing has been confirmed and even if he was being considered things may not work for many reasons (creative differences, conflicting schedules, even clash of personalities). But the rumor as it stands, with the glimpses of information we can get, does have more ground.

    Now if anyone says, as some did, that he may play Blofeld, I would again reply with skepticism. And on another side note, had Penelope Cruz been rumored during the Brosnan era, I would have given it a bit more credibility, because then famous actresses were often cast (although how famous she was then I am not certain). Her casting would have been consistent with the approach at the time.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 5,745
    Ludovico wrote:
    And if you can't understand the difference between skepticism towards a claim and a complaint, that's NOT my problem. Neither is it if you cannot understand the difference between news and speculation and add the latter in this thread title.

    Why would I add 'speculation' to the title? I don't have 'news' in the title. If you assumed this thread would only detail news, you were sadly mistaken, but it was as a result of your own thinking and nothing on my part.
    Ludovico wrote:
    Risico007 wrote:
    So se we want to believe one rumor over the cast list from Sony France the sony france list is null in void?
    What you want to believe is irrelevant. What matters is the evidence at hand, and whether there is enough to safely assume X is true, or likely, or plausible. So far, the evidence is poor, a few lines statement with a typo and nothing else to back it up.
    Knowing Cruze was rumored before, one should remain very skeptical about said news. Until there is evidence to the contrary, we can safely say it is highly unlikely she will be a Bond girl.

    We can not safely say anything. Shooting begins in 7 months. We are simply discussing possibilities and rumors.
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Scary title now. It gave me a bit of fright.

    So the title pulled you in? Isn't that the point?

    Still scary. But better than speculation being labeled as news.

    If it will give you the satisfaction, start your own 'fact' thread and I will see to it to flag every post as overlap with my thread.

    If you are unwilling to do that, don't waste space by posting your non-issue comments in the thread and disrupt the conversation. There is a fantastic message system if you wish to contact me with a relevent concern.

    Hey, don't get on your high horse. I simply meant that since this thread was about Bond 24 News, updating its title with speculation was misleading. I did not say willingly misleading, merely that it was.

    You insinuated, multiple times, that I was indeed willingly misleading. But it is you that allowed yourself to be mislead. Nowhere in this thread have I ever stated we will be discussing strictly facts. It's a timeline, not a 'what we know' list. My timeline will include every piece of information and every topic related to the production of the film. I never mislead anyone into thinking otherwise. You lead yourself to the conclusion that this thread would only detail facts, and you were unfortunately mistaken.
    RC7 wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    What is your issue with speculation and rumor anyway? Worst case scenario we find out they're false. Let us speculate, and keep your constant stream of complaints to yourself.

    This is the difference between a few of us on here. I tend to treat every rumour as false until proven true, where other people seem to lean towards true until proven otherwise. However I don't think it's difficult to ask members to be rational about the information we are drip-fed.

    As @Ludovico points out, the Cruz rumour is an old one and given the various bits of information we do know, such as her profile being at odds with the casting process, I think it's safe to assume this can be filed under 'mistake'. The Ejiofor rumour, on the other hand, seems to carry more weight given EON's casting policy, the tight-lipped nature of the man in question and the overall buzz it has/will gather - which is perfectly aligned with the wishes of the studio.

    People need to be a little more careful when posting wild conjecture, using a little more logic before rushing to be the first to post a rumour. It's not a competition, we're not the tabloids, we're obliged to offer as much of an insight as we can amongst friends. That's why I have a problem when you go all 'red top' with your thread titles - we're better than that.

    One of the previous titles included "MGM Lawsuit..." and you complained that it was scary. Again, you used your own reaction to attempt to change the title, distracting the discussion. There was a lawsuit concerning MGM's rights on the Bond franchise and it's similarity to another project. That is a fact. The title was not misleading. Titles are meant to be short and to the point, and to pull you in to read the full explanation of the topic in the title. The previous title did exactly that. Claims that I was acting as a 'tabloid' above the standard of other users on this forum are unfounded and insulting. This thread is my creation. The topics we discuss are often brought to peoples attention when I change the title. It keeps people interested and prevents the thread from going stale. @RC7 As I have stated multiple times, and only to make myself clear once again, this thread is a timeline of events, not facts. We will be discussing rumors and speculation, as they are topics and events discussed in the timeline of the film's production. (I do appreciate your honestly and communication; I am not trying to stir conflict and 'call you out', I am simply responding.)
    Ludovico wrote:
    I have no issue with rumours, except that people here seem to often think they are facts. Cruze being the next Bond girl is not entirely impossible, but unlikely, for a number of reasons: too famous and now maybe too old (I think its unfair to be deemed too old at 39, but they rarely cast an actress above mid thirties). And since she has been rumoured before, this seems to me like recycled rumour. The other two actresses fit the bill more as they are relative unknown.
    Ludovico wrote:
    Risico007 wrote:
    I do think the Cruz rumor is possibly true I mean it's Sony France (as in part of the company distributing Bond 24) not some backwater Site claiming Cruz is in this...

    They made typos on the news... That looks like unfounded rumours to me.

    Your reasoning for why Cruz is not cast is far more speculative, desperate, and unfounded than other users' reasoning for believing she is cast. An official company document. A reputable news site. Your argument is a typo and the fact that she had been rumored previously. In fact, her being reported earlier could be argued as more evidence for her being cast. It is indeed all speculation, but that is why we have this thread. The announcement of the rumor that Cruz is cast is part of the timeline of the film from our perspective. If it is part of the discussion, it is part of the timeline.
    Ludovico wrote:
    And please enough with the childish behavior. I'm a Bond fan as much as you are. Who the hell are you to tell me to go away? I speculate like everybody else, but I understand that these are speculation and I assess the news on their credibility. I'm not complaining, I'm assessing the credibility of what we are receiving, just like everybody else.
    Ludovico wrote:
    And can someone change the title, since it is still misleading?

    Indirect complaint.
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Scary title now. It gave me a bit of fright.

    So the title pulled you in? Isn't that the point?

    Still scary. But better than speculation being labeled as news.

    An accusation. When did I directly label the Brand/Ponsonby speculation as news? I didn't.
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    To keep us on some sort of topic...

    We almost had Gala Brand up to the last minute in 2002, and now with the powers that be searching for a British main Bond Girl, do we think we'll finally get Gala Brand or Loelia Ponsonby in a Bond film?

    I'd love to see them, but right now it is unlikely I think. Anyway, this is speculation, not news.

    Complaint. And other members didn't seem to mind discussing the topic in the absence of any major headlines. I was merely trying to keep the thread alive, and there was actually an interesting conversation spawned out of my topic:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    To keep us on some sort of topic...

    We almost had Gala Brand up to the last minute in 2002, and now with the powers that be searching for a British main Bond Girl, do we think we'll finally get Gala Brand or Loelia Ponsonby in a Bond film?

    I certainly hope so, though Camille and no sexual involvement with Bond did recall Gala Brand from the MR novel a tad.
    That's really the only connection they share, though: not sleeping with Bond. With Gala she flat out drops Bond hard like a sack of potatoes. I could see the team creating a character like Gala that breaks Bond's heart at the end of the film, but I'd hate it since the guy deserves a time to be happy for once as credits roll.

    With Camille she didn't sleep with Bond out of a sort of respect she had for him and an acceptance that her long mission against Medrano was over, her kiss to Bond an emotional thanks of sorts for all he did for her; I don't think they ever had a sexual connection together and I'm glad that it wasn't forced by EON just to have another sex scene in the film. Part of the reason why I love Camille so much is because she and Bond have an interesting relationship separate from many of the other Bond girls, where the girl doesn't automatically fall into Bond's arms at his every command or anything like that. Camille had a great reverence for Bond and for all that he did for her to get at Medrano, and their relationship was more friendly than sexual at the end of it all. I would love to see Camille back though to sort of reconnect with her character if Quantum is again a threat.

    I just think Gala and Camille are very dissimilar, especially since Gala flat out turns Bond down while sex isn't even brought up once between Camille and Bond; it just wasn't a thought between the two. Like I said previously, they are more friends than lovers, though I would love to see the two go beyond that if she were to return later.

    I totally agree with you, Brady.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    For the record,

    I never insinuated an article was related to my Gala Brand / Loelia Ponsonby speculation. The title does not, in my honest opinion, infer any such thing. In long, I would have it read "Bond 24 Production Timeline - Could The British Actress The Team Is Scouting For Play The Elusive Gala Brand Or Loelia Ponsonby For The First Time On Film?" but that is messy.

    Seeing as this is a Discussion, which is driven by other users' input, I will yield and change the topic to focus on the possibility of the Scandinavian region featuring in the film based on the hunt for an actress of such region, as that seems to be where the talk has shifted.

    I understand the confusion I may have caused, but nowhere have I ever stated that this thread will strictly feature facts. It's a timeline that includes every piece of news and rumor (see: speculation) related to the production of the film. The news is that the film will feature a British actress as the lead Bond girl. The rumor (of my own creation, which could have easily been published by any film-related magazine on the planet) is that it could be Gala Brand or Loelia Ponsonby, two characters never before realized on film.

    I apologize if I have offended anybody, but in my eyes there is, and was, no issue.

    Moving on,

    Me, being mature.
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Loving all this debate and rumour!

    This is why I created this thread. To debate facts and rumors, and to discuss speculation. It's a timeline, which means it will feature every news story and topic discussed related to Bond 24, whether by my creation, your creation, or some other source. This way, when the film is out and we look back at the months of events, we can see the contrast from what was fact and what was rumor, and when we actually knew something accurate, perhaps without even knowing we knew it.

    Moving forward, so my message is clear, this thread will discuss all topics related to the production of Bond 24. News INCLUDING rumors, speculation, and facts, user created speculation and rumors based on what we know, and any topic that we manage to come up with in conversation. It will not be strictly facts, for we will only have "just the facts" after the film is released. Perhaps then some users can go back and use my thread as a guide to piece together a strict timeline of when we knew what.

    Until then, happy chatting. Feel free to message me with any concerns, but I will be ignoring any unfounded requests for changes in the title, or shifts in the discussion unless directly addressed in a message. If it becomes apparent I have made a mistake, of course I will abide by the requests of the many, but those many should not be hindered in discussion by the few.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,139
    @JWESTBROOK, I just want to say you're doing a fantastic job with this thread and I think you're dedicating too much time to the people giving you hassle on how you're titling YOUR thread. Did any of these people bother reading the first post of this thread? Because it's pretty clear that this thread discusses facts and rumours when and as they're released, I.e. A timeline thread. @JWESTBROOK, again keep up the good work; I'm sure I'm not alone here in appreciating what you're doing.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Oh my, where do I start to answer this juvenile drivel?

    1)About the very title of this thread: a production timeline implies news, whether they are very documented or merely rumors reported I don't care, don't mind: we basically discuss what is being reported, whether it is factual or at least credible or not. Then we discuss this and assess it.

    2)Yes I complained about the Loelia Ponsonby and Gala Brand addition to the title... because it was misleading: nothing more than wishful thinking added to a thread about production timeline, aka news, rumors, what have you... started here. I am far from the only one who did, by the way. You DID changed the title of this thread to make it misleading.

    3)The Penelope Cruz argument. Given the very slim amount of evidence, one single source that has been then denied, one can safely assume, until and if evidence to the contrary shows up eventually, that Cruz is not being cast or seriously considered at this point. I don't have to repeat what I said before, because of course ultimately, until casting is announced officially, one cannot prove a negative. One does not have to prove a negative, because the burden of proof reside in the person making the assertion. In this case, whoever thinks there may be more to it then, well, a rumor. And I can't help that you pinpoint a throwaway line about a typo, while I and others extensively said why this should be received with skepticism.

    4)I am all for debate, but @JWESTBROOK you don't seem to care much about them as much as about fantasizing about Bond 24, as you become defensive and aggressive the moment we treat any piece of news or rumor with skepticism. I am all for speculation, heck I love to speculate, as long as everyone has enough lucidity to admit that it is indeed speculation. I speculate plenty about Blofeld coming back eventually, but I fully admit that right now there is not much evidence, if any, that he will ever come back.

    I understand this is your sand square, your thread, your toy, but this is a debate forum opened to everyone. Nobody here, as far as I can see, tried to derail it, on the contrary they contributed to it and to its quality. But then again, maybe you don't care so much about debates.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @Ludovico, let me say as nicely as I can: Please just give it a rest. I feel over and over again that you are unnecessarily antagonistic.

    I am fine with the past and current thread's titles - this is a discuss the rumors site as well as keeping track of all production on Bond 24. No problem.
  • Posts: 6,601
    @Ludovico, let me say as nicely as I can: Please just give it a rest. I feel over and over again that you are unnecessarily antagonistic.

    I am fine with the past and current thread's titles - this is a discuss the rumors site as well as keeping track of all production on Bond 24. No problem.

    This.
    I suppose, those, who go on complaining about the way, rumors are discussed should maybe sit back, till all we have are facts. But then again - this discussion arouses EVERY time a new film is in development. Such an old and unnecessary hat.

    Jestbrook is doing just fine.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 15,218
    @4EverBonded-I confess I was tired when I wrote my last post and I should have waited before answering, some things I said in there were unnecessary antagonistic. But if my tone was sharp, it was also partially because I was being antagonized.

    @Germanlady-I do not complain about adding rumors, when a movie is made they cannot be ignored, so may turn out to be true. I am all for discussing about them as well. But that means also assessing their worth with the information we have. And when new elements come, adjusting our assessment accordingly.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Okay, so lets move forward, eh?
    Rumors will be discussed on threads whether we like it or not - no matter the source or viability - and this thread allows us to discuss rumors as well as production news. Thanks for getting rather back on track, Ludovico.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Isn't this all part of the fun leading up to a new Bond? The internet rumours, the tabloid speculation and so on. We all know it's mostly bollocks until official statements are released but it helps add fuel to the hype.

    Personally I love the build up to production. It means the cogs are in motion and the next 18 months will soon fly by.
  • Posts: 9,853
    I love this forum and I love this thread in particular perhaps this would be a smart idea to do from now on.

    I think this weekend I am gonna dust off either bloodstone or goldeneye reloaded to get my Craig bond fix...


    I will sadly agree Cruz is seeming less likely which is a dam shame as 39 or not she is still quite ... Well hot!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I want to add that i too think @JWestbrook is doing a great job, and deserves some recognition for the effort put into it. The premise of the thread has been to cover news and rumours alike. So-well done. 122 pages, and still 18 months to go.
  • Posts: 7,653
    doubleoego wrote:
    @JWESTBROOK, I just want to say you're doing a fantastic job with this thread and I think you're dedicating too much time to the people giving you hassle on how you're titling YOUR thread. Did any of these people bother reading the first post of this thread? Because it's pretty clear that this thread discusses facts and rumours when and as they're released, I.e. A timeline thread. @JWESTBROOK, again keep up the good work; I'm sure I'm not alone here in appreciating what you're doing.

    I absolutely agree with this opinion.

    Keep up the good work @JWESTBROOK

  • edited April 2014 Posts: 6,601
    Maybe there should be - for once - just ONE thread about confirmed facts and leave this to rumors solely.
    Problem here always has been, that people open a new thread for every tidbit, that gets lost immediately instead of having it all together.
    But I would differ between facts and rumors, so we don't have to explain every time we comment on a rumor, that we are indeed AWARE of the fact, its a rumor.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,663
    We have 2 threads for Bond24 rumours- the 'Bond24 Rumor bin' and ' Bond 24 official Bond-girl rumour list thread'- why not put the rumours there where they belong and use this thread for actual production development only? If someone wants a timeline for rumours put it in the rumour thread.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 6,601
    QBranch wrote:
    We have 2 threads for Bond24 rumours- the 'Bond24 Rumor bin' and ' Bond 24 official Bond-girl rumour list thread'- why not put the rumours there where they belong and use this thread for actual production development only? If someone wants a timeline for rumours put it in the rumour thread.

    For example, yes. Its always been a negative on this side, that its not compressed, but all over the place. Like this, you have a hard time keeping track, because those threads are gone fast and you don't have time to search for everything. Maybe think that policy over, before it REALLY starts.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    Germanlady wrote:
    QBranch wrote:
    We have 2 threads for Bond24 rumours- the 'Bond24 Rumor bin' and ' Bond 24 official Bond-girl rumour list thread'- why not put the rumours there where they belong and use this thread for actual production development only? If someone wants a timeline for rumours put it in the rumour thread.

    For example, yes. Its always been a negative on this side, that its not compressed, but all over the place. Like this, you have a hard time keeping track, because those threads are gone fast and you don't have time to search for everything. Maybe think that policy over, before it REALLY starts.

    I can very much agree. So long as this Penelope Cruz thing isn't made official, I doubt we should bring it to this thread.

    When and if any statements concerning her are made - emphasis on 'if' - we have plenty of time to mention it here. But it gets really hard to keep track of things when A) we have, as @Germanlady pointed out, several threads dealing with the same rumours and when B) the production timeline starts worrying about rumours too.

    A little effort from all of us, can go a long way.

    Thank you.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DarthDimi wrote:
    B) the production timeline starts worrying about rumours too.

    A little effort from all of us, can go a long way.

    Exactly.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Okay ... but we have been discussing rumors here all along. So we all need to now post rumors only on other threads? No rumors on here about anything. Just so I'm clear ... unsure I agree, but it's not a big deal. Is that what you mean, @DarthDimi?
  • Posts: 6,601
    Why not - by all means - just open a thread "Confirmed Bond 24 facts" and make this one here a plein rumor thread, as it is the most recent and the other ones will disappear all by itsself, when we stick to those two. Really easy...all we can do, since we cannot do sticky.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Okay ... but we have been discussing rumors here all along.

    Exactly. This thread has been posting rumours from the very beginning so why have we now decided that it's only for facts?

    I'd also like to say that I think @JWESTBROOK is doing a great job with this thread.
    Germanlady wrote:
    Why not - by all means - just open a thread "Confirmed Bond 24 facts" and make this one here a plein rumor thread, as it is the most recent and the other ones will disappear all by itsself, when we stick to those two.

    Or we could just continue posting rumours and facts in this thread. I don't see the problem, it's worked fine for over a year so far. I think the Gala Brand title was misleading but @JWESTBROOK has apologised and we've moved on from that now.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    I am not 100% sold on this. But, thinking it over, I guess don't mind limiting the rumors to one thread and confirmed info on another - it just needs to be done cleanly and now. I think even within a month rumors may be flying, certainly this summer.

    So would you please PM JWESTBROOK, @DarthDimi about this? Or @GermanLady. Or he can just read it when he comes back on here; but a PM would be nice.

    I know, @thelivingroyale, so we are like deciding his thread for him. I am not comfortable with that feeling. I think it may get overwhelming soon with rumors, though; that is really the only reason why I am considering it. And yes, JWESTBROOK has been doing a great job.
  • Posts: 5,745
    If I might, I'd like to have a say on the direction of my thread, if it is still mine.

    This is not and will not be a fact only thread. I've stated it multiple times. It will not change unless a moderator would like to take over the entire thread and manage it themselves. Do that, and my days here are numbered.

    The current role and direction of this thread has worked almost flawlessly for over 120 pages and a year's time. I'm not changing it.

    I created this thread so that after production is over, in the months and years after the film has been released, we'll all be able to look back and say "remember when we thought this.." or "This is when we learned that..." without having to look too far. I've also gone through the trouble of linking articles with their event, so that we have an ultimate guide to the information of Bond 24's production. I will be going back and adding it for all of the current entries, while continuing to do it for future events.

    If you want a fact only thread, make one. If you want a rumors only thread, make one
    But this will be both because that's how I intended it. I don't think I'm being too stubborn, especially with how well its worked out so far.


    If a moderator has any concerns or would indeed like to take over, message me.

    Until then, thank you to all who have made supportive comments over the past few days, and hopefully some great news pops up soon so we can all move on.

    Thanks
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I remember why you created this thread, JWESTBROOK - and I think that is the key point. So no, I do not think you are being too stubborn. There may be tons of rumors, but it is your thread and you can stay on top of it and you want everything in this thread - so yeah, you have my backing. No problem.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    This thread works just fine so leave well alone and let JWESTBROOK get on with running his thread the way that he wants to Thankyou .
  • Posts: 6,601
    If we care to remember, WHAT started this discussion, we might get to the point.
    What started it were the complaints about not being "explicit" enough about what is a "bit" rumor, which one is a "possibility" and which one is "total bullocks" etc. IMO making differences in what is "allowed" to be talked about and which is not, is nonsense. Everybody knows, they are discussing rumors and should be allowed to give them their personal stamp of importance without having to defend themselves all the time. If THAT can be done, this will work. If not, NOT.
  • Posts: 5,745
    It worked for a year. The mistaken title was indeed my mistake, but was one in hundreds. I'll be careful going forward. There was one issue, and it's settled. It only affected a few members.

    I think this has gone on too long. Back to normal, everybody.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    I think anything should be talked about when it comes to that. In fact, it's interesting bashing all of the news sites that run the ridiculous rumors and stories that crop up. It's @JWESTBROOK's thread, he should have 100% say on what is discussed. Like he stated, we're 123 pages in, so that says something about the direction we've been taking.
  • Posts: 2,491
    I seriously can't find the "Theme song" discussion so I'll post here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYNUg5j7tr0&feature=share

    If there ever was a non-Bond song that screamed Bond that is definitely this one.

    Are there any rumours about Caro Emerald and B24 ?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    You are doing an excellent job as our caretaker of the various threads, @Samuel001. Nobody does it better.
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