SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • edited April 2014 Posts: 2,015
    Personnally, I can imagine Mendes introducing Blofeld back and killing him in the same movie. He almost always kill a major character in his movies, it seems :) Ie : it would be spoiler territory for his other movies to discuss more, but apart from the comedy oriented Away We Go (that I didn't see), a big character dies in every other, no ?
  • Posts: 15,218
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    Please enlighten me where is it written that Quantum is never going to show up again. Because as far as I know we don't know anything regarding this matter.

    It isn't written anywhere, but that's the problem. It is written that Mendes threw out the original idea for Bond 24 and Bond 25, which was a connected story. Take that as you will - I take it to mean a double feature finale for Craig, and what better way to end it then to take down the organization that began his tenure?

    I'm not saying it's anywhere near fact that Quantum wont return, and if they don't, that its directly Mendes' fault. But I will be able to tell you that as a fact after Bond 24.

    I think it is clear that Quantum could only return effectively in Craig's tenure, I think it is clear that his tenure will likely end with Bond 25, and so I think it is clear that if they do not at least allude to Quantum in Bond 24, as in there is absolutely no mention of the organization in the 24th film, then Quantum is definitely D.O.A.

    That said, and I know I may be pulling a string here and doing wishful thinking: 1)DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are all standalone movies 2)Mendes could have thrown away the idea of a connected story between Bond 24 and 25 merely to have Bond 24 stand on its own.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    Please enlighten me where is it written that Quantum is never going to show up again. Because as far as I know we don't know anything regarding this matter.

    It isn't written anywhere, but that's the problem. It is written that Mendes threw out the original idea for Bond 24 and Bond 25, which was a connected story. Take that as you will - I take it to mean a double feature finale for Craig, and what better way to end it then to take down the organization that began his tenure?

    I'm not saying it's anywhere near fact that Quantum wont return, and if they don't, that its directly Mendes' fault. But I will be able to tell you that as a fact after Bond 24.

    I think it is clear that Quantum could only return effectively in Craig's tenure, I think it is clear that his tenure will likely end with Bond 25, and so I think it is clear that if they do not at least allude to Quantum in Bond 24, as in there is absolutely no mention of the organization in the 24th film, then Quantum is definitely D.O.A.

    That said, and I know I may be pulling a string here and doing wishful thinking: 1)DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are all standalone movies 2)Mendes could have thrown away the idea of a connected story between Bond 24 and 25 merely to have Bond 24 stand on its own.

    That's exactly how I think of it. The only truly connected films in the entire franchise and CR and QoS, to have Bond 24 and Bond 25 as two parts of a same story is something that didn't appeal to me and obviously didn't appeal to Mendes either. As much as I like QoS I prefer Bond films to be standalone.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Sandy wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    Please enlighten me where is it written that Quantum is never going to show up again. Because as far as I know we don't know anything regarding this matter.

    It isn't written anywhere, but that's the problem. It is written that Mendes threw out the original idea for Bond 24 and Bond 25, which was a connected story. Take that as you will - I take it to mean a double feature finale for Craig, and what better way to end it then to take down the organization that began his tenure?

    I'm not saying it's anywhere near fact that Quantum wont return, and if they don't, that its directly Mendes' fault. But I will be able to tell you that as a fact after Bond 24.

    I think it is clear that Quantum could only return effectively in Craig's tenure, I think it is clear that his tenure will likely end with Bond 25, and so I think it is clear that if they do not at least allude to Quantum in Bond 24, as in there is absolutely no mention of the organization in the 24th film, then Quantum is definitely D.O.A.

    That said, and I know I may be pulling a string here and doing wishful thinking: 1)DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are all standalone movies 2)Mendes could have thrown away the idea of a connected story between Bond 24 and 25 merely to have Bond 24 stand on its own.

    That's exactly how I think of it. The only truly connected films in the entire franchise and CR and QoS, to have Bond 24 and Bond 25 as two parts of a same story is something that didn't appeal to me and obviously didn't appeal to Mendes either. As much as I like QoS I prefer Bond films to be standalone.

    They stand alone to a point, but there are areas where one of the films feed into the next. In FRWL for example, the plot sprung on Bond by SPECTRE is both in an effort to get the Lektor and to get revenge for Dr. No's death at the hands of 007. Hence, the actions set in motion during the previous film motivate a portion of the next film's action. In OHMSS Bond is now more than ever adamant to get at Blofeld, partially motivated by their meeting in the film previous. In that same film Bond looks over memorabilia from his past adventures, showing a clear development of his character through the many dangerous missions he has survived. Add in all the moments that Bond references Tracy or even goes to her grave and how old characters from far back return (or their offspring do like Quarrel Jr.) and the Bond films are everything but stand-alone. The mere fact alone that the films form a franchise makes the idea of truly self-contained adventures impossible. There are some films in the series that are even better appreciated or understood by seeing the previous films that are connected to them. Think YOLT-OHMSS-DAF for example, or CR-QoS-Skyfall. When you have a character like Bond who is constantly under development across what is now going to be 24 films, the movies do and will continue to bleed together at spots. I love it because it shows that Bond doesn't forget his past adventures, the ramifications of they presented, the allies he's had, the things he has survived or the villains/threats he has faced.
  • JWPepperJWPepper You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.
    Posts: 512
    boldfinger wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    When did Quantum become the be all and end all of Bond villains? I'm one of the biggest defenders of QoS but if I'm not losing any sleep thinking whether Quantum is going to appear or not in a future film, let alone Bond 24.
    I enjoy the panache with which Bond producers build up potential story arcs and then completely ignore them.
    Like OHMSS - DAF.

    Or QOS, where a Quantum member worked as M´s bodyguard. One should think that that alone would be sufficient motivation to uproot that organisation. At least it would be the logical next step for a Secret Intelligence Agency.
    But as I said, I enjoy how they keep throwing such logic out of the window. Keeps things fresh, and I´m not being sarcastic here. Like the logic of Dame Judy being Brosnan´s M and them Craig´s M.
    So it wouldn´t be a bad thing per se to drop Quantum.
    But to keep them for a while would offer a huge variety of possibilities. An organisation constructed as cleverly as Quantum could easily appear in all different shapes and forms, thus they could be used for a long time without getting possibly stale.

    Yes, they ignore QoS completely. I am very curious about Mendes' opinion of QoS. It's very strange he says that HE casted Rory Kinnear as Tanner. So I don't think he liked it that much.

  • Posts: 5,767
    They stand alone to a point, but there are areas where one of the films feed into the next. In FRWL for example, the plot sprung on Bond by SPECTRE is both in an effort to get the Lektor and to get revenge for Dr. No's death at the hands of 007. Hence, the actions set in motion during the previous film motivate a portion of the next film's action. In OHMSS Bond is now more than ever adamant to get at Blofeld, partially motivated by their meeting in the film previous. In that same film Bond looks over memorabilia from his past adventures, showing a clear development of his character through the many dangerous missions he has survived. Add in all the moments that Bond references Tracy or even goes to her grave and how old characters from far back return (or their offspring do like Quarrel Jr.) and the Bond films are everything but stand-alone. The mere fact alone that the films form a franchise makes the idea of truly self-contained adventures impossible. There are some films in the series that are even better appreciated or understood by seeing the previous films that are connected to them. Think YOLT-OHMSS-DAF for example, or CR-QoS-Skyfall. When you have a character like Bond who is constantly under development across what is now going to be 24 films, the movies do and will continue to bleed together at spots. I love it because it shows that Bond doesn't forget his past adventures, the ramifications of they presented, the allies he's had, the things he has survived or the villains/threats he has faced.
    I´m with you on most of this, but Bond´s character didn´t develop much from DN up to AVTAK, OHMSS being an exeption.
    The films are self-contained in the way that you don´t have to see others in order to understand one.

  • JWPepper wrote:
    It's very strange he says that HE casted Rory Kinnear as Tanner.
    He may be planning to kill him :)

  • Posts: 9,853
    Look I am willing to forgive Mendes and crew for Skyfall (a film that still just feels meh for me and I put somewhere in the middle of bond films) but the fact that there are rumors Quantum won't return because of Mendes is a bit too much. I hope like the Japan or devil may care rumors this is EXTREMLY untrue. Even someone like Mendes has to see the untapped potential in Quantum right?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I'm starting to hope they do bring Quantum back, simply to end the tedious whining. 'Where's my Quantum? I want my Quantum back! I want! I want!
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    RC7 wrote:
    I'm starting to hope they do bring Quantum back, simply to end the tedious whining. 'Where's my Quantum? I want my Quantum back! I want! I want!

    That makes us two :D
  • Posts: 15,218
    JWPepper wrote:
    boldfinger wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    When did Quantum become the be all and end all of Bond villains? I'm one of the biggest defenders of QoS but if I'm not losing any sleep thinking whether Quantum is going to appear or not in a future film, let alone Bond 24.
    I enjoy the panache with which Bond producers build up potential story arcs and then completely ignore them.
    Like OHMSS - DAF.

    Or QOS, where a Quantum member worked as M´s bodyguard. One should think that that alone would be sufficient motivation to uproot that organisation. At least it would be the logical next step for a Secret Intelligence Agency.
    But as I said, I enjoy how they keep throwing such logic out of the window. Keeps things fresh, and I´m not being sarcastic here. Like the logic of Dame Judy being Brosnan´s M and them Craig´s M.
    So it wouldn´t be a bad thing per se to drop Quantum.
    But to keep them for a while would offer a huge variety of possibilities. An organisation constructed as cleverly as Quantum could easily appear in all different shapes and forms, thus they could be used for a long time without getting possibly stale.

    Yes, they ignore QoS completely. I am very curious about Mendes' opinion of QoS. It's very strange he says that HE casted Rory Kinnear as Tanner. So I don't think he liked it that much.

    I noticed and wondered the same thing. Their friendship has been more developed, or at least more apparent, in SF than in any other movie.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Sandy wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I'm starting to hope they do bring Quantum back, simply to end the tedious whining. 'Where's my Quantum? I want my Quantum back! I want! I want!

    That makes us two :D
    Yeah, come on, all kind of people around here whine and wnat want want, how many people scream for Blofeld to return for instance? So let those guys whine a bit, for heaven´s sake ;-) .

  • boldfinger wrote:
    Yeah, come on, all kind of people around here whine and wnat want want, how many people scream for Blofeld to return for instance? So let those guys whine a bit, for heaven´s sake ;-) .

    There are whiners who may have just been slide-tackled by Mendes though : all those who kept on saying "you need THREE YEARS to do a good movie now", and kept on joking about those wondering why the Bond movie every two years was a thing of the past.

    Now we learn the producers may have changed radically their ideas during the summer of 2013 about Bond 24, in order to have Mendes on board : maybe all the work done for a two-movies arc was forgotten then, and maybe the work on single self-contained movie started only at that time. So, maybe we'll have a Bond movie done in two years...

    If you want to be afraid, you may fear they converted the two-movies arc in a single movie story in a few weeks during the summer of 2013 just to please Mendes, and that we'll have another movie in which the script will be very weird :)

  • Posts: 12,526
    boldfinger wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I'm starting to hope they do bring Quantum back, simply to end the tedious whining. 'Where's my Quantum? I want my Quantum back! I want! I want!

    That makes us two :D
    Yeah, come on, all kind of people around here whine and wnat want want, how many people scream for Blofeld to return for instance? So let those guys whine a bit, for heaven´s sake ;-) .

    I agree to a point. However Spectre had their time and they were Connery's nemesis. Quantum without doubt is Craigs! And i would like to see him take them down in his era.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    RogueAgent wrote:
    boldfinger wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I'm starting to hope they do bring Quantum back, simply to end the tedious whining. 'Where's my Quantum? I want my Quantum back! I want! I want!

    That makes us two :D
    Yeah, come on, all kind of people around here whine and wnat want want, how many people scream for Blofeld to return for instance? So let those guys whine a bit, for heaven´s sake ;-) .

    I agree to a point. However Spectre had their time and they were Connery's nemesis. Quantum without doubt is Craigs! And i would like to see him take them down in his era.

    Exactly, were not bitching and moaning about Quantum. God forbid we have some continuity in Bond movies for once. (The Craig films are all linked and reference each other nicely.) Some of us our voicing our concerns. That's not whining. I'd rather see Quantum return instead of shoehorning in SPECTRE or Blofeld.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Can we want both Blofeld and Quantum back? Albeit not at the same time...
  • Wait, wait, wait, Quantum was not named at all in Casino Royale. Mr White echoes SMERSH's agent in the novel, and even in Fleming's books one can argue that as an antagonist, SMERSH would "turn into" SPECTRE. Eon did not own the rights of SPECTRE at the time of Casino Royale.

    Then Quantum is named in Quantum of Solace. And that's what I call shoehorning : name an organization so that it "explains" the title of the movie, which comes from Ian Fleming short novel in which "Quantum" is not linked in any way to any organization. Eon did not have the rights of SPECTRE at that time either.

    Then, no Quantum at all in Skyfall. And since then Eon finally owns the rights of SPECTRE.

    I think that Quantum has existed only because of a legal limbo and a weird title, and will be remembered as such in the future.

  • Posts: 11,425
    I don't remotely care whether Quantum returns or not.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Wait, wait, wait, Quantum was not named at all in Casino Royale. Mr White echoes SMERSH's agent in the novel, and even in Fleming's books one can argue that as an antagonist, SMERSH would "turn into" SPECTRE. Eon did not own the rights of SPECTRE at the time of Casino Royale.

    Then Quantum is named in Quantum of Solace. And that's what I call shoehorning : name an organization so that it "explains" the title of the movie, which comes from Ian Fleming short novel in which "Quantum" is not linked in any way to any organization. Eon did not have the rights of SPECTRE at that time either.

    Then, no Quantum at all in Skyfall. And since then Eon finally owns the rights of SPECTRE.

    I think that Quantum has existed only because of a legal limbo and a weird title, and will be remembered as such in the future.

    That may be true about the legal limbo, but this is non sequitur: Quantum is the organization that sent Vesper to her grave and represent a serious threat to.the West, Mr White is still at large as well as others. For closure they need to be fought again. Or their absence need to be explained at the very least.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 7,653
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't remotely care whether Quantum returns or not.

    I would like it if they finished the tale of this organisation, by whatever name, first it was a big threat and then...................?

    I would not mind if Mendes would not return, not a fan of his work and not a fan of his work with 007. Yoo bad he gets a second chance. O:-)

  • Posts: 4,410
    I do want Quantum to return in some capacity or at least have them referenced in some minor way.

    However......as stated here, Mendes is doing his own thing with Bond and I think that means no Quantum sadly. Quantum is very attached with QOS, a film Mendes has gone to great lengths to avoid. I hope they do come back though.

    Personally I think you can handle it like this:

    I think that SPECTRE and Blofeld will return now that EON have the rights. Therefore SPECTRE will be the new kids in town, and early in the film Mallory will brief Bond telling him that Blofeld is gaining a lot of notoriety around the world and has even killed the head of Quantum and dissolved the organisation. This way we know that Blofeld is one helluva villain for Bond to take on.

    This way the Quantum storyline is wrapped up and if another director in the future does want to pick up the thread they would be more than able to.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't remotely care whether Quantum returns or not.

    I would like it if they finished the tale of this organistaion, by whatever name, first it was a big threat and then...................?

    I would not mind if Mendes would not return, not a fan of his work and not a fan of his work with 007. Yoo bad he gets a second chance. O:-)

    I am a Mendes sceptic. I am not a fan of SF, but am curious as to what he can achieve with a fresh script without any Purvis and Wade input. I am also interested to see how a director handles making two in a row - it's the first time since 1989 that a director has had the chance to do this.

    There was a lot in terms of the ideas and ambition behind SF that I approved of. I just felt the execution, plot and script let it down. Mendes is a capable (if perhaps slightly overhyped director) and I've enjoyed at least a couple of his films.

    Better the devil you know, I say. I don't think he's going to deliver exactly what I want, but casting around for another one-off director is a bit like Russian roulette. It will be good for the series to have a bit of stability on the directing front. After Mendes I'd like to see them consider appointing a director on a 2 or 3 movie contract though.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I'd actually rather see them reference Vesper than Quantum. You could have Bond visiting her grave ala Tracy in FYEO.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I'd actually rather see them reference Vesper than Quantum. You could have Bond visiting her grave ala Tracy in FYEO.

    I don't see Bond visiting Vesper's grave. He has come to terms with what happened, but she is not Tracy. He did not marry her and she still betrayed him, even if she was coerced. Frankly, I am keen they don't get into a pattern of having too much cross referencing between films. The odd link here and there is fine and I don't actually mind if Quantum or Spectre or whatever returns. But I like my films to stand alone - to feel like one satisfying installment in their own right.+
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    In the OHMSS novel it's mentioned that Bond visits Vesper's grave once a year (the first time Vesper is mentioned at all since CR), so I don't really have too much of a problem with that.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Thinking about it, Mendes did set up the whole 'Shadows' theme in Skyfall, which is precisely where Quantum operates. The shadows of world leaders pulling the strings, the shadows of catastrophic events. He could very easily continue that shadow theme with the organization, and maybe do what QoS sort of lacked, and actually make them organized. The fact that Wilson still has them on his mind, the fact that they seem to be trying to mimic the success of the first films in the franchise, and the fact that Mendes started this shadows theme cause me to think that there is as good a set up as there is going to get for Quantum to return.

    But I stand by that Bond 24 is now or never.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    In the OHMSS novel it's mentioned that Bond visits Vesper's grave once a year (the first time Vesper is mentioned at all since CR), so I don't really have too much of a problem with that.

    Perhaps in Bond 25, but not 24 simply because if Quantum does return I don't want it to be overkill on all the memorabilia to remind us.

  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    edited April 2014 Posts: 3,277
    Here's the video of Sam Mendes interview for Charlie Rose.

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/622076
  • Posts: 908
    Getafix wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't remotely care whether Quantum returns or not.

    I would like it if they finished the tale of this organistaion, by whatever name, first it was a big threat and then...................?

    I would not mind if Mendes would not return, not a fan of his work and not a fan of his work with 007. Yoo bad he gets a second chance. O:-)

    I am a Mendes sceptic. I am not a fan of SF, but am curious as to what he can achieve with a fresh script without any Purvis and Wade input.
    There was a lot in terms of the ideas and ambition behind SF that I approved of. I just felt the execution, plot and script let it down.

    As I said before - don't expect too much. Logan has yet to deliver a script, that is even remotely original let alone logical. What he has delivered so far are the nadirs of two of my favorite franchises (= Bond and Star Trek ), at least storywise. I can see a pattern forming here.
    About the ideas and ambition behind SF stuff - well if they aren't executed well they are worth just about nothing. You see one can start writing a novel with the ambition to write the greatest book ever, but if he fails his ambition doesn't redeem him one bit.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    BAIN123 wrote:
    the first time Vesper is mentioned at all since CR

    She had a brief mention in Goldfinger.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't remotely care whether Quantum returns or not.

    I would like it if they finished the tale of this organistaion, by whatever name, first it was a big threat and then...................?

    I would not mind if Mendes would not return, not a fan of his work and not a fan of his work with 007. Yoo bad he gets a second chance. O:-)

    I am a Mendes sceptic. I am not a fan of SF, but am curious as to what he can achieve with a fresh script without any Purvis and Wade input.
    There was a lot in terms of the ideas and ambition behind SF that I approved of. I just felt the execution, plot and script let it down.

    As I said before - don't expect too much. Logan has yet to deliver a script, that is even remotely original let alone logical. What he has delivered so far are the nadirs of two of my favorite franchises (= Bond and Star Trek ), at least storywise. I can see a pattern forming here.
    About the ideas and ambition behind SF stuff - well if they aren't executed well they are worth just about nothing. You see one can start writing a novel with the ambition to write the greatest book ever, but if he fails his ambition doesn't redeem him one bit.

    I am trying to remain positive, but admit I share your doubts.

    I watched the Last Samari the other day and the plot and script are incredibly generic and clunky. He does have a good turn of phrase though sometimes. Gladiator, although again, very derivative, has some brilliant lines. I agree though, originality and logic are not Logan's strongpoints. I've blamed a lot of what I disliked about the SF plot and script on Purvis and Wade, but I fear that Logan takes a lot of the responsibility. I'm just really hoping that Bond 24 makes basic sense. I don't ask for a lot - just that it doesn't slap you round the face with an illogical plot and bizarre character decisions.
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