SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • Posts: 3,274
    Luckily Arnold wasn't involved with the theme song from DAD, as well ;-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2014 Posts: 12,480
    I found this article interesting. (Newman and Skyfall's entire score)

    http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/skyfall.html

    Perhaps this really should be on just a Bond music thread, but since several folks here are still talking about Newman I thought I'd put it here. In part it says this (underline is mine, not in the article):

    Bond films have always strived for a strong melodic core, a key part of their romantic appeal, and Newman manages to maneuver through his entire contribution without concocting a single coherent and consistently developed major motif. Part of the blame for Skyfall's total thematic anonymity rests with the executives of the film, who did not arrange for the title song to be finished in time for Newman to incorporate its melody into the bulk of his score. Compounding this failure for Newman is the fact that Adele's song, co-written by her regular collaborator, Paul Epworth, is a stunning success. Accompanying a truly nightmarish opening title sequence that depicts Bond's journey through a living hell, this song is a throwback to the glory days of Bond like none other, eclipsing even the recent Bassey/Arnold collaboration for "No Good About Goodbye," a belated "Bond ghost song" of immensely attractive prowess that could very well have been intended for Quantum of Solace. Adele's "Skyfall" intentionally adheres to the chord progressions of Norman's classic theme and includes backing by a 77-piece orchestra arranged by Newman's orchestrator, J.A.C. Redford. The resulting song is a triumph of the modern age for the franchise and was declared as such by critics and fans. Its chart performance returned the Bond franchise to the Billboard ranks and is a ringing endorsement for an adherence to the days of classic Bond ballads with sultry voices and stylish brass. The orchestral backing in this song is impressively muscular, and fortunately for listeners, the abridged film version of the recording contains most of the best sequences from the full, nearly 5-minute song. Because it was completed late in the production process, Newman's score could only utilize the theme in "Komodo Dragon," which was reportedly recorded after the rest of the score to specifically make at least one token reference to the song in Newman's contribution.

    I do not know for a fact that the theme song was delivered so late that it could not have been incorporated into the score more. I'd like to learn more facts on that from other sources. I think that is not the only reason the theme song is used so little.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 3,274
    I do not know for a fact that the theme song was delivered so late that it could not have been incorporated into the score more. I'd like to learn more facts on that from other sources. I think that is not the only reason the theme song is used so little.
    My (only) source, "the making of" on the Blu-Ray clearly states that it was deliberate choice not to use the Adele theme as a motif throughout the movie. IIRC it was in an interview with Mendes with Newman sitting beside him.

    Besides the first cut of Adeles theme was completed in October 2011 february 2012 - that's eight months before the release of the movie, so I wonder where filmtracks.com are getting their facts from?

    EDIT:

    "SM: Adele came in – that was our number one choice, and she said ‘Yeah, I’ll come in.’ She came in, just normal as ever, with her producer. And she said ‘I’m worried that I can’t write – my songs are personal, I write from the heart, that’s how I work. I like the idea of a Bond song, but how do you write a Bond song?’ And I said, ‘Just write a personal song. Nobody does it better. Just think in those terms.’ And she said, ‘Okay, well tell me the story of the movie.’ And I told her the story, and she took the script home and she said, ‘Let me think about it.’ And that weekend she said, ‘I read the script in the bath, I couldn’t put it down. I think I’ll have a go at it. Give me a bit.’ And two months later we were on set, and she said ‘Here it is!’ and it was a file in my email. And I listened to it while I was driving all the way in from the countryside for two hours, I listened to it over and over again for like two hours. It just seemed right. And I got there and gave it to Barbara and to Daniel, who both shed a tear, because it’s the first good Bond song."
    http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/skyfall-interview-mendes-marlohe-harris?page=2#blogPostHeaderPanel
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 4,619
    I found this article interesting. (Newman and Skyfall's entire score)

    http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/skyfall.html

    Filmtracks.com is a place completely out of touch with modern film music. Read their ridiculous reviews of the score of The Social Network or The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo to see what I mean. Every movie would sound like a saccharine Spielberg film if it was up to them.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    OK, well I do think the theme song was completed way early enough. Whatever the history of reviews on Filmtracks, I agreed with some of this one. I do think that Newman did not want to incorporate the theme song into the score.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    'It's the first good Bond song'. I really hope that was misquoted. Mendes seems to be making a habit of these sweeping, and at times utterly false, statements.
  • Posts: 2,483
    RC7 wrote:
    'It's the first good Bond song'. I really hope that was misquoted. Mendes seems to be making a habit of these sweeping, and at times utterly false, statements.

    If he really said that then he knows very little about music. And that's quite possible. Talent is not fungible. Hence, John Barry thought OHMSS was terrible, demonstrating that being a musical genius hardly qualifies one to be a film critic.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Interesting that it should be said that Zimmer is ripping off Gustav Holst for most of his career when it appears to me that allot of John Williams Star Wars score is almost lifted whole sale from Holst's most famous work The Planets Suite.

    I'm not defending Zimmer, I don't dislike his music or love it, it does it's job nothing particularly memorable about it, he's no Barry and seems like allot of composers today very little melody and anything that you can hum a long to and yes I'm not sure I want to see Newman back in the composers chair again for Bond 24.

    I thought he did more than adequately with SF but despite never having been a huge fan apart from his best score to date (QOS and elements of the CR score) I want to see what Arnold will come back with after a 7 year break from the job.

    Personally I'd hope he was reinvigorated and having someone else take over for the first time since he began he'll feel he has something to prove, he was starting to get interesting with QOS, I'd like to see where he might go next, especially if Mendes wants to continue with the more playful attitude that started with SF not seen in the previous DC entries.

    I certainly don't want the PB era default of playing the JB theme every 10 minutes but having it appear a bit more regularly would be nice. Also like with YKMN a collaboration theme so like with CR he can weave the motif into his score.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Shardlake wrote:
    Interesting that it should be said that Zimmer is ripping off Gustav Holst for most of his career when it appears to me that allot of John Williams Star Wars score is almost lifted whole sale from Holst's most famous work The Planets Suite.

    So the fact that an other composer was infuenced by the same source makes it an unfair comparison? When was Williams and the Star Wars score mentioned in this context?

    Gustav Holst has no doubt influenced many film Ccmposers through the years, but as other (like Williams...) have added personal touches to the style, Zimmer just seems to methodically follow the blueprint.
  • Posts: 3,274
    And I guess Aston Martin also followed the blueprint made by Ford, and the inventor of the bicycle used the blueprint from the Romans, when making a wheel ;-) Nothing wrong with finetuning, IMO. Mankind has done it forever.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    jobo wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    Interesting that it should be said that Zimmer is ripping off Gustav Holst for most of his career when it appears to me that allot of John Williams Star Wars score is almost lifted whole sale from Holst's most famous work The Planets Suite.

    So the fact that an other composer was infuenced by the same source makes it an unfair comparison? When was Williams and the Star Wars score mentioned in this context?

    Gustav Holst has no doubt influenced many film Ccmposers through the years, but as other (like Williams...) have added personal touches to the style, Zimmer just seems to methodically follow the blueprint.

    You mentioned Holst and someone had previously mentioned preferring Williams score for Superman to Zimmers for MOS, I just though it was funny that Zimmer could be accused of ripping Holst off when Williams undeniably did it with Star Wars, or is JW to much a scared cow for me to make such an accusation of?

    I'm not taking a pop at Williams but from a young age of hearing The Planets Suite I couldn't help but hear the similarities we aren't just talking influence here there are times you can tell Williams has simply borrowed from this suite.


  • Posts: 4,619
    Some idiot over at the IMDB page of Bond 24 keeps insisting that the movie should be called BOND 25 and not 24 since NSNA is now owned by EON... :(|) IMDB now changed the title to Bond 25... Hopefully they will change it back soon.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Some idiot over at the IMDB page of Bond 24 keeps insisting that the movie should be called BOND 25 and not 24 since NSNA is now owned by EON... :(|) IMDB now changed the title to Bond 25... Hopefully they will change it back soon.

    Wow...just when you think people can't be any more idiotic.
  • Posts: 15,115
    RC7 wrote:
    'It's the first good Bond song'. I really hope that was misquoted. Mendes seems to be making a habit of these sweeping, and at times utterly false, statements.

    If he really said that then he knows very little about music. And that's quite possible. Talent is not fungible. Hence, John Barry thought OHMSS was terrible, demonstrating that being a musical genius hardly qualifies one to be a film critic.

    Maybe there was also the personal involvement of Barry that played a role in what he said about OHMSS? I am not trying to defend him, just wondering. Ironically Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown is one of my favourite holiday songs.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    'It's the first good Bond song'. I really hope that was misquoted. Mendes seems to be making a habit of these sweeping, and at times utterly false, statements.

    If he really said that then he knows very little about music. And that's quite possible. Talent is not fungible. Hence, John Barry thought OHMSS was terrible, demonstrating that being a musical genius hardly qualifies one to be a film critic.

    Maybe there was also the personal involvement of Barry that played a role in what he said about OHMSS? I am not trying to defend him, just wondering. Ironically Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown is one of my favourite holiday songs.

    Mendes does make silly comments sometimes! Like when he claimed to have cast Kinnear as Tanner.

    A real shame that they didn't incorporate Adele's song into the score - just a total missed opportunity. It would have given the score a lot more personality had they referenced it in more than that one token scene.

    On a side note, I love the way that some of the Bond films pay homage to other classic movies. One of the earliest examples is of course the helicopter buzzing Bond in FRWL, which is a fond homage to North By North West.

    I really enjoyed the way that Cambell referenced Roeg's 'Don't Look Now' during the Venice sequence in Casino Royale. It was a really nice touch and off course was a sign that a tragic death was imminent.

    I think Mendes intended to pay homage to 'The 39 Steps' in SF, although as some have pointed out it ended up looking more like Home Alone.

    It would be great to have some something like the CR homage in the next film.
  • Getafix wrote:
    Mendes does make silly comments sometimes! Like when he claimed to have cast Kinnear as Tanner.

    I think some people read too much into "I'm a Bond fan" when it's said by someone publicly. Here "I'm a Bond fan" means you can answer "BMT216A" when asked about the license plate of the DB5. For the rest of the world, it means you've heard about the DB5 :)
  • Posts: 15,115
    @Getafix-To be fair, about casting Kinnear, it's not like Bill Tanner has been very memorable in QOS. Or in any movie except maybe GE.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote:
    @Getafix-To be fair, about casting Kinnear, it's not like Bill Tanner has been very memorable in QOS. Or in any movie except maybe GE.

    That's definitely true. But you'd have thought Mendes might have noticed Kinnear. Aren't they friends?

    Going back to Mendes' comments from the other day:

    http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=40906

    I noticed again that he says B24 will be like the second half of Skyfall. From that I am guessing that he means he will be set in a slightly more low-tech world. There will be less emphasis on hi tech surveillance. The return of M's old office is also going to make a really big difference to the look and feel as well. I always thought it was a mistake when they 'updated' MI6 in GE - it's just looked really naff ever since. I am really happy the old office is back - something I'd been arguing for for ages!
  • Posts: 15,115
    I guess they had to move the offices to the new MI6 building, but I always wondered why they did not keep the look of the old office on the inside.

    Regarding Bill Tanner in QOS, while I was happy he was back in the franchise, you flicker your eyes and you miss him entirely. Mendes' mistake might actually be a good sign, that we will see more of the character.
  • Posts: 11,425
    My understanding is that in the novels Tanner is sort of Bond's only friend. Yet in the films he's usually just a boring suit. Kinnear does not look like someone that Craig's Bond would go for a drink with.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I wish they had carried on with Michael Kitchen as Tanner,he was brilliant in the role and still looks good today.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Kitchen was better. He had more authority and looked more the part.

    I am prepared to believe Kinnear is a good actor as everyone says he is, but in Bond he just seems either miscast or poorly used.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Tanner got a much bigger role already in Skyfall, and it seems Mendes is very proud of "his" recurring characters, and wants all of them to get as much screentime as possible. I actually think that can be a good thing, within certain limits of course, and it's no less than what Kinnear deserves. Acually I'm still a bit baffled that such a brilliant actor would be interested in playing such an anonymous part, but all the better for the modern James Bond series as far as I am concerned.

    Edit: And I don't think he is miscast.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 19,339
    No he is not miscast but he lacks the charm and wit that Kitchen brought to the role - at the moment anyway.

    But yes,the key word is : consistancy....
  • Posts: 15,115
    barryt007 wrote:
    I wish they had carried on with Michael Kitchen as Tanner,he was brilliant in the role and still looks good today.
    Kitchen would be now far too old though. He looks more like he could play M!
    Getafix wrote:
    Kitchen was better. He had more authority and looked more the part.

    I am prepared to believe Kinnear is a good actor as everyone says he is, but in Bond he just seems either miscast or poorly used.

    But Tanner should not have too much authority. He is a civil servant, not the head of SIS. And he looked the part when Brosnan was Bond. You don't want Tanner to look too mature compared to Bond. I enjoyed Kinnear and Craig interaction and I think he is growing in the role.
  • Posts: 11,425
    They need to improve his look. He just looks like a boring fart in the Bond movies.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Some idiot over at the IMDB page of Bond 24 keeps insisting that the movie should be called BOND 25 and not 24 since NSNA is now owned by EON... :(|) IMDB now changed the title to Bond 25... Hopefully they will change it back soon.

    Wow...just when you think people can't be any more idiotic.

    They really are idiotic as don't they know about the CR67 spoof which Eon now own too! So should it not be Bond 26?!!! ;)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited May 2014 Posts: 14,569
    It's a wonder they can count to 25. Lucky Warhead 2000 didn't materialize, eh? ;)
  • Posts: 19,339
    Aaah dont even joke about those 2 films...NSNA i can tolerate but i wouldnt p**s on CR67 if it was on fire !! 8-|
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,569
    barryt007 wrote:
    i wouldnt p**s on CR67 if it was on fire !! 8-|
    I've owned better frisbees.
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