SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • Posts: 15,114
    Some of the best films had a polish in term of dialogue, eg Dr No and GF, TB too I think. YOLT and OHMSS were the ones that didn't get that, and they suffered imo, DAF didn't need it cos the writer was all about witty dialogue and not much else, a bit cart before the horse you might say.

    IMO FYEO would have worked better had Wood been called back to add a few lines, as the dialogue goes a bit flat for me in that. So getting the same old writers back isn't so bad, though it is a bit odd the choices the producers make; personally I never thought Logan's dialogue was ever any great shakes.

    I think dialogues are his main strength. Maybe his only strength actually. Take away the dialogues in Gladiator and you have a very boring movie, basically an action movie with swords and sandals (I mean it was an action movie with swords and sandals, but then people wouldn't find it smart without the dialogues). It is his plotting that often gets muddled up.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Ludovico, well, at this point in the game (with Craig's work on the films), let's hope that we don't have some absurd MP sex scene again now that she has returned. Watch the PTS open up with Bond and MP making love, then it pans out, and they're in space fighting an alien race, only for Bond to wake up and realize it's a dream.

    I better not give them any ideas...

    I don't see that happening with Mendes, touch wood.

    I better not see it happening with any director. At all. Ever.

    Better not either, but I don't see it happening with Mendes. Or Craig, for that matter.
  • Scriptwriting is always a collective effort, and who gets credited is often more due to contractual obligations than who gives the most valuable input.

    When Mathieu Amalric was asked about the difference between Quantum of Solace and the typical French auteur film he usually plays him, he answered : I'll rather talk about the similarities : there were changes almost every day, there was some young guy writing the script on set, there was an atmosphere of improvisation.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Scriptwriting is always a collective effort, and who gets credited is often more due to contractual obligations than who gives the most valuable input.

    When Mathieu Amalric was asked about the difference between Quantum of Solace and the typical French auteur film he usually plays him, he answered : I'll rather talk about the similarities : there were changes almost every day, there was some young guy writing the script on set, there was an atmosphere of improvisation.

    Exactly! Sometimes you have to stray from the script and give room for the ideas of the day.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Some of the best films had a polish in term of dialogue, eg Dr No and GF, TB too I think. YOLT and OHMSS were the ones that didn't get that, and they suffered imo, DAF didn't need it cos the writer was all about witty dialogue and not much else, a bit cart before the horse you might say.

    IMO FYEO would have worked better had Wood been called back to add a few lines, as the dialogue goes a bit flat for me in that. So getting the same old writers back isn't so bad, though it is a bit odd the choices the producers make; personally I never thought Logan's dialogue was ever any great shakes.

    Still one would have thought they had quite a few months in advance to realize, that the script wasn't up to the task. All their business track of delays and such tends to tell me,that they are not really very gifted producers. It's a shame. 007 just deserves better!

    Harsh but perhaps fair. In the 7 films of the post Cubby era, only two films have impressed me - CR and QoS. Cubby used to have an almost 50:50 hit to miss ratio during his later years. Babs and MGW have come a long way in the last decade, but they really need to find some way or running things more smoothly. The production of the next Bond movie should never have been delayed in order to accommodate the director.
  • Posts: 75
    Agreed. Wilson and Babara Broccoli's legacy will be that of mismanagement, time wasted, failure, laziness.

    They had an extra 12 months to fine tune a script, and this happen. Ok sure. This would not be happening on Cubby's watch.

    They can hand the rains to someone else if they not up to it. Drop the whistle blower Edward Snowden story and focus on Bond, the time is now and Daniel Craig not getting any younger.

    None of us are.

    And why hire two writers who have a proven track record of terrible dialogue to do a dialogue revision? Why not hire a cheeky UK stand up comic? This is another botched decision.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I simply disagree. Michael and Barbara's legacy is firmly in the positive, looking at everything they have given us.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Just watched Everything or Nothing for the first time. Nice documentary. What is so striking is how despite clear attempts to do so, MGW and Babs have never succeeded in rebuilding the production family that made the earlier films so successful. Directors come and go. And with the exception of the casting of Craig I don't trust their judgement. Cubby and Harry assembled a team of geniuses, notably Barry and Adam. In terms of music and production design nothing has come close in recent years. It always feels a bit like one step forward and two steps back for some reason. They can never quite line up everything together. Still, they are both very likeable and clearly passionate about what they do.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I left out Maibaum from my list of geniuses. How he is missed!
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 6,601
    Getafix wrote:
    Just watched Everything or Nothing for the first time. Nice documentary. What is so striking is how despite clear attempts to do so, MGW and Babs have never succeeded in rebuilding the production family that made the earlier films so successful. Directors come and go. And with the exception of the casting of Craig I don't trust their judgement. Cubby and Harry assembled a team of geniuses, notably Barry and Adam. In terms of music and production design nothing has come close in recent years. It always feels a bit like one step forward and two steps back for some reason. They can never quite line up everything together. Still, they are both very likeable and clearly passionate about what they do.

    Not quite sure, I can agree, as much as I would like to ;)

    I do believe, they had quite the talent ensembled during DC's 3 and its different times (reg. the directors) I don't think, its common thing, they have one for several pics in a row. It happens, but not very often plus I do believe, that's a good thing. Keeps it fresh, even if there might be a miss among them.

    As for the script problems - I see it as far from normal still. Not on this scale with such a delay. I am afraid, parachute isn't all wrong and now, MAYBE Logan just left, threw his contract right into their faces and they had no other choice then to rehire W & P. In a sad way, to me, this is the only explanation. Logan left and the script wasn't ready.

    Then again, can something like that being kept under wraps? Dunno..
  • Posts: 1,490
    Germanlady wrote:

    As for the script problems - I see it as far from normal still. Not on this scale with such a delay. I am afraid, parachute isn't all wrong and now, MAYBE Logan just left, threw his contractt right into their faces and they had no other choice then to rehire N & P. In a sad way, to me, this is the only explanation. Logan left and the script wasn't ready.

    Then again, can something like that being kept under wraps? Dunno..

    Honestly, re-writes which push back a schedule are very common in filmmaking. In fact I am on a pretty big tv show right now and we have had to push back 2 weeks - which on a tv schedule is a lot believe me, because of story and script issues which we had not foreseen. Bond 24 is being pushed back 2 months - that's a fair bit, but far from a disaster. They have plainly carefully considered what they need to do and have correctly and wisely adjusted the schedule for that very reason. As I have said, this is very, very common in filmmaking. Because it's a Bond film it gets more press like in Baz's Daily Mail "exclusives", but if every feature film (even blockbusters) were reported like a Bond film in the normal press you would realize this is very usual in filmmaking. I have been in the film business 30 years, and I have seen and experienced this kind of re-writing and re-scheduling many, many, many times. Hope that helps ease your concerns GL.

  • edited June 2014 Posts: 6,601
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Honestly, re-writes which push back a schedule are very common in filmmaking. In fact I am on a pretty big tv show right now and we have had to push back 2 weeks - which on a tv schedule is a lot believe me, because of story and script issues which we had not foreseen. Bond 24 is being pushed back 2 months - that's a fair bit, but far from a disaster. They have plainly carefully considered what they need to do and have correctly and wisely adjusted the schedule for that very reason. As I have said, this is very, very common in filmmaking. Because it's a Bond film it gets more press like in Baz's Daily Mail "exclusives", but if every feature film (even blockbusters) were reported like a Bond film in the normal press you would realize this is very usual in filmmaking. I have been in the film business 30 years, and I have seen and experienced this kind of re-writing and re-scheduling many, many, many times. Hope that helps ease your concerns GL.

    I'd love to be at ease, believe me ;) and thanks so much for trying to put me into that position. So ok and this is the last I will say about this (I try :D ) Obviously something FORCED them to bring back N & P, which was not at all on the agenda. They had a perfectly fit writer in Logan. He was under contract to write the damn thing alone. Now this seems to be old news. This one question remains - why isn't he doing the necessary rewrites? Why hiring a pair of writers to polish the script of the "main writer"? For all we know, it was ALWAYS the other way around.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Getafix wrote:
    Just watched Everything or Nothing for the first time. Nice documentary. What is so striking is how despite clear attempts to do so, MGW and Babs have never succeeded in rebuilding the production family that made the earlier films so successful. Directors come and go. And with the exception of the casting of Craig I don't trust their judgement. Cubby and Harry assembled a team of geniuses, notably Barry and Adam. In terms of music and production design nothing has come close in recent years. It always feels a bit like one step forward and two steps back for some reason. They can never quite line up everything together. Still, they are both very likeable and clearly passionate about what they do.
    To be fair, Cubby and Harry had an absolute monopol with Bond, while Michael and Babs managed pretty well to stay ahead in a sea of competition.

  • Posts: 1,490
    Germanlady wrote:
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Honestly, re-writes which push back a schedule are very common in filmmaking. In fact I am on a pretty big tv show right now and we have had to push back 2 weeks - which on a tv schedule is a lot believe me, because of story and script issues which we had not foreseen. Bond 24 is being pushed back 2 months - that's a fair bit, but far from a disaster. They have plainly carefully considered what they need to do and have correctly and wisely adjusted the schedule for that very reason. As I have said, this is very, very common in filmmaking. Because it's a Bond film it gets more press like in Baz's Daily Mail "exclusives", but if every feature film (even blockbusters) were reported like a Bond film in the normal press you would realize this is very usual in filmmaking. I have been in the film business 30 years, and I have seen and experienced this kind of re-writing and re-scheduling many, many, many times. Hope that helps ease your concerns GL.

    I'd love to be at ease, believe me ;) and thanks so much for trying to put me into that position. So ok and this is the last I will say about this (I try :D ) Obviously something FORCED them to bring back N & P, which was not at all on the agenda. They had a perfectly fit writer in Logan. He was under contract to write the damn thing alone. Now this seems to be old news. This one question remains - why isn't he doing the necessary rewrites? Why hiring a pair of writers to polish the script of the "main writer"? For all we know, it was ALWAYS the other way around.

    Very quickly because I have to shoot out now, but again, it is common for writers to step back or be replaced for re-writes. This doesn't mean fighting or arguments with the producers etc, it's just that screenwriting is an incredibly intense process - and quite exhausting. Sometimes, after months and months of intense work it becomes hard to remain objective about the material, the story, characters etc. - a writer simply needs to step back. (I have had the luxury of having a year away from a script I have written which goes into production in November - and because of the time delay I have come back to the script with a clear and objective eye and as a result I am making HUGE improvements which I simply could not have seen before due to being so close to the material.) So, what usually happens is that a writer wisely steps back to allow fresh eyes on the material. Again, this is very common, and writers' contracts have clauses which protect both themselves and the producers if a new writer or writers are brought onto a project at any stage - so everyone is ALWAYS prepared for this.

    I don't think John Logan through his script in the air and stormed out. Most writers are too experienced and too professional to act like that and they know all too well when it is time for them to step back.

  • Posts: 6,601
    Thanks Colonel, this makes sense. Have a good sunday. :)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for your follow up, ColonelSun. It seems that writers are brought in to help finish or polish or rewrite scripts often and everywhere films are made, even on Bond films. I don't believe I'll be worrying much about the script. I may be the lone one on this, but I've calmed down about Purvis and Wade; they have done good work as well as not good. So I am going to trust that the producers know what their best looks like now and are giving expectations of that. I fully understand the producers wanting to work with writers who know how to write for Bond. The decision to have someone else come in is, in my opinion (without seeing Logan's script) got to be the right decision. If it was a near perfect script, great; they still may bring other writers just for some finishing. So if it has more of what what the producers or Mendes don't want, or is lacking in what they really want more of, then yeah get another writer(s) in and get the changes made. But to say Logan thew his script in the air, walked out, or other temperamental actions like that, it's just wild speculation from where we stand. He could have (anything is possible) but it is unprofessional and unlikely and frankly, I don't like to hear such negative speculation about someone who is a respected professional and been on board with Bond for a while now - not until we know more facts (if we ever do). I'd rather go with the more likely scenarios and not get majorly stressed over the facts as we know them at this time.

    I wish that changeover had happened a bit earlier. But anyway, things are moving and I do hope the delay in filming is the last one.
  • Posts: 15,114
    @ColonelSun-Thank you, this was thorough, instructive and you are now officially the voice of wisdom on this thread.

    My concern is not about John Logan's script being rewritten. I would not have given him free reign over a Bond movie, not since Star Trek Nemesis. I am concerned that P&W are back, as they never were outstanding and if they were asked to rewrite the dialogues (which I take with a huge pinch of salt) it was never they strong point. That said, I understand the devil you know is better than the devil you don't and they have been capable of better things.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited June 2014 Posts: 4,515
    His Agency confirmd Second United Directer/Cinematopgrapher second united directer Alexander Witt (CR/Skyfall) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0936838/ return for Bond 24.

    http://murthaagency.com/client_resume_content.cfm?client_id=71
    SECOND UNIT DIRECTOR /
    DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY

    BOND 24 MGM Sam Mendes

    With working on Terminator 5 for July 2015 release date, it whas the quistion or he have time to return for Bond. But for 2012 he not only did Skyfall he also did Safe House.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    M_Balje wrote:
    His Agency confirmd Second United Directer/Cinematopgrapher second united directer Alexander Witt (CR/Skyfall) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0936838/ return for Bond 24.

    http://murthaagency.com/client_resume_content.cfm?client_id=71
    SECOND UNIT DIRECTOR /
    DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY

    BOND 24 MGM Sam Mendes

    With working on Terminator 4 for July 2015 release date, it whas the quistion or he have time to return for Bond. But for 2012 he not only did Skyfall he also did Safe House.

    Very good news and expected. Is there really anyone else?
  • Posts: 3,274
    M_Balje wrote:
    With working on Terminator 5 for July 2015 release date, it whas the quistion or he have time to return for Bond.

    They've been shooting T5 for months now.

  • edited June 2014 Posts: 6,601
    That's good news
  • M_Balje wrote:
    His Agency confirmd Second United Directer/Cinematopgrapher second united directer Alexander Witt (CR/Skyfall) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0936838/ return for Bond 24.

    http://murthaagency.com/client_resume_content.cfm?client_id=71

    SECOND UNIT DIRECTOR /
    DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY

    BOND 24 MGM Sam Mendes

    With working on Terminator 5 for July 2015 release date, it whas the quistion or he have time to return for Bond. But for 2012 he not only did Skyfall he also did Safe House.


    excellent news. the second unit work on SKYFALL was outstanding. In the list of his work the agency lists Neal Purvis as the director of CASINO ROYALE!?!
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 2,015
    ColonelSun wrote:
    I have had the luxury of having a year away from a script I have written which goes into production in November - and because of the time delay I have come back to the script with a clear and objective eye and as a result I am making HUGE improvements which I simply could not have seen before due to being so close to the material.
    Well, would you have said during a public interview during that year away that you had less interest in the likes of this production ? I mean, without even being asked about it.
    But to say Logan thew his script in the air, walked out, or other temperamental actions like that, it's just wild speculation from where we stand.

    This a version only from those who think everything is black or white. You can depart also very nicely on one projet and continue working on others with the same people. Ironically, the hearsay I got at the end of May was this kind of catastrophic, but my source sees everything in black or white on such topics, but well, they work or they do not work in the end :)

    Now, I pity a bit P&W, they just can't win : everything fine in Bond 24 will be because of Logan, and everything awful will be because of them. They're the only big common point between CR and SF along with Craig, but even those who like these two seems to find ok to "hate" them...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Purvis and Wade are back - I'm shocked, but at least they have form. Has John Logan ran out of ideas?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Some of the best films had a polish in term of dialogue, eg Dr No and GF, TB too I think. YOLT and OHMSS were the ones that didn't get that, and they suffered imo, DAF didn't need it cos the writer was all about witty dialogue and not much else, a bit cart before the horse you might say.

    IMO FYEO would have worked better had Wood been called back to add a few lines, as the dialogue goes a bit flat for me in that. So getting the same old writers back isn't so bad, though it is a bit odd the choices the producers make; personally I never thought Logan's dialogue was ever any great shakes.

    It is incorrect to say that OHMSS did not get a script polish - Simon Raven was brought in for just that purpose.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Purvis and Wade are back - I'm shocked, but at least they have form. Has John Logan ran out of ideas?

    When it came to plots, I never thought he ever had many ideas. He wrote great dialogues, sometimes great characters, but the plots are hardly his forte.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Purvis and Wade are back - I'm shocked, but at least they have form. Has John Logan ran out of ideas?

    When it came to plots, I never thought he ever had many ideas. He wrote great dialogues, sometimes great characters, but the plots are hardly his forte.

    Hence the return of Purvis and Wade?
  • Posts: 15,114
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Purvis and Wade are back - I'm shocked, but at least they have form. Has John Logan ran out of ideas?

    When it came to plots, I never thought he ever had many ideas. He wrote great dialogues, sometimes great characters, but the plots are hardly his forte.

    Hence the return of Purvis and Wade?

    Well, I certainly hope that is the reason. I find it strange they'd be asked to rework the dialogues. Of course if you modify the plot some dialogues will be modified. But Logan's dialogues writing was never a problem. Not even in Nemesis, which was the only thing that was sometimes good.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Purvis and Wade are back - I'm shocked, but at least they have form. Has John Logan ran out of ideas?

    When it came to plots, I never thought he ever had many ideas. He wrote great dialogues, sometimes great characters, but the plots are hardly his forte.

    Hence the return of Purvis and Wade?

    Well, I certainly hope that is the reason. I find it strange they'd be asked to rework the dialogues. Of course if you modify the plot some dialogues will be modified. But Logan's dialogues writing was never a problem. Not even in Nemesis, which was the only thing that was sometimes good.

    I agree. Logan's stories are derivative and weak. But that is what makes this even more disturbing. Had they been bringing in Logan to polish a P+W story it would have made more sense. But can you really come in at a late stage and polish the story? I suppose it's possible but it suggests more fundamental problems.

    Also, surely polishing was included in the original production schedule, therefore this delay is something beyond the anticipated and entirely routine polishing that always takes place.
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 6,601


    Maybe there will be some sort of news via deadline or even EON by tomorrow.
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