SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Thanks for posting that. I hope it's merely a Japanese henchman and they don't take us back to Asia. I want new settings for Craig's Bond, so no Italy, no Asia, etc.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I'd like to see an Asian henchman, that would make a change from Grant clones.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2014 Posts: 13,355
    A henchman itself would be enough of a change. We haven't had one, and one that was any good, for a long time.
  • Posts: 15,114
    True. But for all we know this guy will do stunts, he may not even play a character.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Actually the last "good" henchman was probably Necros or Dario. Stamper was...well...a little bleh.
  • Posts: 908
    Shardlake wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I love the way the SF haters are making out the earlier scripts by the veterans were utter gold, seriously give me CR, QOS and SF over dreck like DAF, LALD or MR for that matter.

    I think some people have rose tinted specs on when they look at the earlier films, some of the dialogue in the earlier period was cringe worthy.

    I do not hate SF or QoB but honestly they did not have the best of scripts on which they shot the movie, even DC admits that with QoB (Oh my god, the man is a hater!)

    And to be honest a lot of the earlier movies were overall pretty great and denying that is somewhat hatefull. Might I add denying the strength of 007's past heritage is a poor show for anybody calling himself a James Bond fan. All three movie you consider dreck are great movies and have a lot that could make this era a better one.
    Shardlake wrote:
    Anything to knock this new era and then making out the older films screenplays were genius is just laughable.

    I do not need to knock out this new era, it is perfectly capable of doing it by itself. If the next Bond movie is as poor as QoB & SF I hope that the next performer is for Bond 25. And with any delays on production DC is getting older and might just pass the baton. He does no longer have to do it for the dosh.

    Just because you like the older films doesn't make your opionion anymore valid plus I'm willing to move with the times whereas you'd likely be happy if they were museum pieces that had not moved on one bit or that is what I get the impression with criticism of this era and the constant brown nosing of the older films.

    Brown nosing? The fact alone that someone states he considers the first bond movies were better and more solidly scripted doesn't make him up brown Noser. Even the so much vaunted CR has some real script issues logic wise and SF solidly holds the title of being the one movie in the franchise that is holding less logic than a Donald Duck comic book. Richard Maibaum might not have been a genius,but he was very very able for sure. Something that certainly can't be said of Mr Logan!

    Seriously it's convenient to forget the raft of plot holes in the previous films and now SF is the most illogical film of the series?

    Look I get some didn't like it and almost loathe it's Billion dollar haul but seriously anyone would think it was one of the most poorly made and constructed blockbusters of recent memory the way you harp on about it.

    I'll take all of the so called problems with the DC era over a good percentage of the previous films but I guess this doesn't make me a fan because I can't just fall down and worship all the previous films and Logan's ineptitude is just pure opinion not fact like so many of you here keep thrusting down our throats. I've said it before I'm glad the series isn't in the hands of the likes of fan boys on this site, my god what a god awful mish mash of fan wank we'd have on our hands.

    This "Bond films have always been riddled with potholes" battle cry gets repeated by Skyfall fans ad nauseam, but that doesn't make it any more true. Consider that the rightfully much chided DAD has only one real plothole and then start counting with Skyfall. I wonder how anyone who calls himself a Bond fan can defend a movie in which really nothing makes sense. To my mind if someone is a fan of something he wants it to improve and to be as good as possible. It's over a year since I made the challenge to show me just one thing in the whole movie that's logical explainable and still no one has raised to the task. That alone tells everything! About this fanboy thing - can it get any more fan boyish than with the DB5? I don't think so. And btw this billion revenue doesn't impress me a bit. So have Transformers and countless other bullshit, so this is absolutely no indicator of quality.
  • Posts: 15,114
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Actually the last "good" henchman was probably Necros or Dario. Stamper was...well...a little bleh.

    Stamper was a Grant clone on steroids, without the hunter's drive that made Grant so great. Even Necros was too close to Grant, although he was a commendable hemchman. I'd love to see a henchman who could crush Bond if he gets close enough, but not another Grant clone.
  • Posts: 11,425
    One of the problems is that Craig is so beefy you rarely feel he is physically threatened. He looks more threatening than threatened.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Getafix wrote:
    One of the problems is that Craig is so beefy you rarely feel he is physically threatened. He looks more threatening than threatened.

    Yes and no. I agree it is challenging to find someone who looks menacing pitched against him. But his Bond seems in far more dangerous situation than Brosnan's.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    One of the problems is that Craig is so beefy you rarely feel he is physically threatened. He looks more threatening than threatened.

    Yes and no. I agree it is challenging to find someone who looks menacing pitched against him. But his Bond seems in far more dangerous situation than Brosnan's.

    Well, that's not exactly hard, is it?
  • Posts: 15,114
    Given Brosnan's look, I thought it would have been easier to put him in a tight spot. I'm not being mean or anything, but he could have easily been vulnerable, at least sometimes.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Actually the last "good" henchman was probably Necros or Dario. Stamper was...well...a little bleh.

    She's a woman but what about Onnatop? Easily up there with the best of them imo.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    This "Bond films have always been riddled with potholes" battle cry gets repeated by Skyfall fans ad nauseam, but that doesn't make it any more true. Consider that the rightfully much chided DAD has only one real plothole and then start counting with Skyfall. I wonder how anyone who calls himself a Bond fan can defend a movie in which really nothing makes sense. To my mind if someone is a fan of something he wants it to improve and to be as good as possible. It's over a year since I made the challenge to show me just one thing in the whole movie that's logical explainable and still no one has raised to the task. That alone tells everything! About this fanboy thing - can it get any more fan boyish than with the DB5? I don't think so. And btw this billion revenue doesn't impress me a bit. So have Transformers and countless other bullshit, so this is absolutely no indicator of quality.

    The "Bond films have always been riddled with plotholes" battle cry is perfectly reasonable when you yourself later add "I wonder how anyone who calls himself a Bond fan can defend a movie in which really nothing makes sense"

    Long term Bond fans simply go with the outrageous villains and ridiculous hole-filled plots surely? And for the record I'm a looooooooong term Bond fan, not a fan-boy. I like SF and I can see the plot holes certainly.

    Is it ok to enjoy a Bond film without troubling oneself over it's deficiencies?
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,425
    NicNac wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    This "Bond films have always been riddled with potholes" battle cry gets repeated by Skyfall fans ad nauseam, but that doesn't make it any more true. Consider that the rightfully much chided DAD has only one real plothole and then start counting with Skyfall. I wonder how anyone who calls himself a Bond fan can defend a movie in which really nothing makes sense. To my mind if someone is a fan of something he wants it to improve and to be as good as possible. It's over a year since I made the challenge to show me just one thing in the whole movie that's logical explainable and still no one has raised to the task. That alone tells everything! About this fanboy thing - can it get any more fan boyish than with the DB5? I don't think so. And btw this billion revenue doesn't impress me a bit. So have Transformers and countless other bullshit, so this is absolutely no indicator of quality.

    The "Bond films have always been riddled with plotholes" battle cry is perfectly reasonable when you yourself later add "I wonder how anyone who calls himself a Bond fan can defend a movie in which really nothing makes sense"

    Long term Bond fans simply go with the outrageous villains and ridiculous hole-filled plots surely? And for the record I'm a looooooooong term Bond fan, not a fan-boy. I like SF and I can see the plot holes certainly.

    Is it ok to enjoy a Bond film without troubling oneself over it's deficiencies?

    This tedious discussion has been going on faaaarrr too long. However, I think what @Matt_Helm is trying to say is that there is a distinction between very OTT, fantastical storylines and storylines that just don't make sense. I don't think there are many fans of the films who don't realise that a bit of outrageousness is par for the course with Bond. What (some) of us found to be a particular issue with SF was the large number of inconsistencies and glaring holes in the plot. I disagree with the implication that this is part of the territory with Bond. Historically, yes the plots have often been outrageous, but the stories and scripts have, within their fantastical terms, been internally coherent. I don't think SF is.

    I think there's a bit of deliberate misunderstanding on both sides here, with those defending SF wilfully choosing to pretend that they don't understand the difference between an OTT/outragoues plot and one that lacks internal logic - let's be clear, outrageousness and plot holes are not the same thing. DAD is a godawful, utterly outrageous and OTT film, but it's absurd plot does maintain its own bizarre internal logic. You might sit there thinking 'this is utterly unbelievable', but this is because the outrageousness has gone too far, not because the plot itself is inconsistent. SF is a much better made film, but is, in my view (and I think, quite a few others) let down a lot by the fact that the plot often just collapses under the weight of its own inconsistencies. Plot holes are not unheard of in big action movies. I'm sure there are others in the Bond series - not just quite so many in one film. I've heard plenty of explanations for why they're supposedly not actually plot holes, but believe me, the internet is awash with lots of people saying pretty much the same thing as @Matt_Helm. He is not a lone voice on this issue. Not that internet chatter proves any one right - I'm just making the point that @Matt_Helm 's view of the film is shared by quite a lot of other people. So while the SF fans are free to admire the film as much as they like, the same respect should be shown to those who found it to be a below average plot.

    I really wanted to like SF. I embrace outrageousness, when it's well done. I approve of much of the intent behind what Mendes was trying to do. I just don't think SF achieved its objectives and was really let down by the plot.

    Any way, this is, I think we can all agree, a discussion that is well past its prime. It's really just about semantics and refusal to recognise the legitemacy of each others' positions.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Getafix wrote:
    Any way, this is, I think we can all agree, a discussion that is well past its prime. It's really just about semantics and refusal to recognise the legitemacy of each others' positions.

    Here, here.

    So about those Tom Ford suits...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Any way, this is, I think we can all agree, a discussion that is well past its prime. It's really just about semantics and refusal to recognise the legitemacy of each others' positions.

    Here, here.

    So about those Tom Ford suits...

    Agreed. Some like SF, some don't. No point in going on and on about it.

    Back on track now, I've been eyeballing my blu-ray copy of 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy' lately in hopes that Hoytema is named the DP for B24. I want to go back and rewatch it to pay attention to what we can expect in B24, if he is named the cinematographer.
  • Posts: 9,846
    I would love a good location rumor... we haven't had one of those in a while
  • Posts: 15,114
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Actually the last "good" henchman was probably Necros or Dario. Stamper was...well...a little bleh.

    She's a woman but what about Onnatop? Easily up there with the best of them imo.

    A bit too much of a caricature for my taste. And the mano a mano combat of GE was between Bond and former colleague and 00 agent Trevelyan. Maybe the best of the Brosnan Bond climactic fights.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    I think some of the best henchmen can be Bond girls, Bond's fatal weakness. I'd like to see another one done well, only someone like Onatopp who is evil throughout, using her talents and body to get him close and kill him.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I think some of the best henchmen can be Bond girls, Bond's fatal weakness. I'd like to see another one done well, only someone like Onatopp who is evil throughout, using her talents and body to get him close and kill him.

    I don't think they really managed to top... Fiona Volpe. I would rather see Bond's physical match, a new Oddjob or a new Grant, without being the clone of either. Or a new Trevelyan, actually.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    @Ludovico, that's what I've wanted to see ever since CR, given the fact that Craig is probably the most physical, muscular Bond we've had. We need a good henchman/main villain to match his physical abilities in a proper fist fight. Someone equally skilled (or even a bit bigger/better) to really challenge him.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Ludovico, that's what I've wanted to see ever since CR, given the fact that Craig is probably the most physical, muscular Bond we've had. We need a good henchman/main villain to match his physical abilities in a proper fist fight. Someone equally skilled (or even a bit bigger/better) to really challenge him.

    Yes - they'd have to have a skirmish early on, with the tension building towards a climactic fight at the end. You have to build up to the 'big fight' - I hate it when they just chuck in a henchman fight for the sake of it.

    One of the reasons the Necros fight in TLD is so good at the end is that they've been building the guy up all the way through. It feels like it matters and Bond is given real motivation to take out this guy. The same with Grant, of course.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Absolutely, @Getafix. Tease how talented the henchman/villain is. Perhaps have him take on a couple of good guys that he flies through, or like you said, fight Bond for a few moments to show just how good the guy is, then have the huge, climactic battle at the end. They're missing an opportunity with how strong Craig is, they need to do something like this.
  • Posts: 11,425
    at the end - having almost lost the fight
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    I'm sure someone will end up comparing it to Batman vs. Bane, much like they compared SF to Batman, but I really want to see someone give Craig's brutality a proper challenge.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 15,114
    Maybe we should move this conversation to the Bond 24 wish list.

    Anyway, wishful thinking sort of related: if this stuntman can act just enough, he might be the henchman we are looking for. He does not even have to talk. A silent assassin would be very threatening. As long as he walks the walk and does not merely look mean.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    One more comment on a henchman who can give Bond a challenge: Iko Uwais from 'The Raid' and 'The Raid 2: Berandal.' The man has excellent choreography skills, so he could bring that to the table, and watching him fight Bond hand-to-hand would be a dream come true.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 15,114
    Creasy47 wrote:
    One more comment on a henchman who can give Bond a challenge: Iko Uwais from 'The Raid' and 'The Raid 2: Berandal.' The man has excellent choreography skills, so he could bring that to the table, and watching him fight Bond hand-to-hand would be a dream come true.

    I don't know how he is a fighter, I am sure he is good, but looking from his picture he looks like a nice guy. Anybody has a picture of that stuntman?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    @Ludovico, so does Dwayne Johnson, but I'm sure he could stomp through almost anyone thrown at him. It's about screen presence. Watch either of those and you'll see what I mean. He comes across as the guy you wouldn't expect, and any general audience member could see someone like him in the film and figure "Oh, small guy, that shouldn't be bad," until he breaks out his ridiculous Pencak Silat skills and kicks some ass.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Just dropping by to say that, at least around a month back, music editor (and fellow) Tony Lewis was opening negotiations to work on Bond24. I hope he would drop by himself to tell us the news first hand ;)
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