SPECTRE Production Timeline

Creasy47

I think they can make it so they shoot a scene (such as the motorcycle chase) where no facial CGI is required, but show his face in scenes where he really is driving. I'm sure Craig can hop on a motorcycle (like he did in QoS) and actually drive it around, so why not implement moments where we see him driving in a scenario where it isn't too dangerous, and then when the stuntwork kicks in, keep it on the stuntmen without showing off their faces, either.

QBranch

The SF train fight was great, but yes, I think it really was the train's apparent lack of speed that made it feel less risky to me. The only time the train *seemed* to be speeding was during the fight in the tunnel.

Creasy47

@QBranch, yep. It's impressive that they did it, but it's not as thrilling as it might look when you take into account the usage of wires and the train's speed. And the "VW Beetles...I think." And the fact that the train loses several cars and gets a huge portion of the roofing ripped off, and it still keeps on trucking along.

Give me less CGI and more impressive stunts and action, please.

QBranch

Obviously the most impressive stunts are done at a significant height, so let's see some more aerial action. Height-wise, SF only had Bond falling of the bridge IIRC.

Creasy47

@QBranch, pretty much, though even that isn't "impressive" since it's mostly CGI. I want to see danger and realistic plausability in the stunts. Someone actually bungee jumped off the dam in GE. Someone actually did the crane hopping in CR. Someone actually hung off the cargo net in TLD.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

QBranch wrote:

Yes, SF's PTS was pretty awesome for stunts, but it never quite made me think, 'holy crap, someone is actually doing that for real!'. I want that reaction again. The CR crane jump and plane stunt finale in TLD spring to mind.

Dan fighting on top of a speeding train certainly did that for me.

Was it speeding? Looked like about 25mph to me and I'm sorry but half most of that fight was just two blokes standing on top of a train. After the JCB it wasn't anywhere as good as OP's train sequence. Dan standing on top of a train with safety a wire or Martin Grace literally risking life and limb just hanging on for dear life in OP - I know which I would choose.

Well obviously EON and Mendes weren't going to let the film's star go on top of the train without wires, regardless of whether Dan was up for it or not. That would be immeasurably foolish.

Getafix

Creasy47 wrote:

@QBranch, yep. It's impressive that they did it, but it's not as thrilling as it might look when you take into account the usage of wires and the train's speed. And the "VW Beetles...I think." And the fact that the train loses several cars and gets a huge portion of the roofing ripped off, and it still keeps on trucking along.

Give me less CGI and more impressive stunts and action, please.

May be it's because I'd seen the trailer which shows most of the PTS already, but I was just not wowed by the opening of SF. It all looked like stuff we'd seen before - down to the locations, train-top fight etc. There was nothing new or original about it and I frankly didn't think it was all that well done.

I know this is knit-picking, but who loads cars laterally onto a train? It just never happens. Blatant and distracting bit of product placement.

The rooftop train fight has been done a thousand times before and done better in OP. It all felt a bit plodding to me.

Creasy47

@Getafix, I was actually somewhat let down with the PTS clip I saw. I think it begins with Bond moving the bulldozer and ends with him landing in the train. Hell, him landing in the train was one of the coolest things I had seen in a while, but after seeing all the trailers and TV spots over and over again, it kind of lost its flavor. Yet another reason why I won't be rewatching all the trailers come B24.

TheWizardOfIce

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

QBranch wrote:

Yes, SF's PTS was pretty awesome for stunts, but it never quite made me think, 'holy crap, someone is actually doing that for real!'. I want that reaction again. The CR crane jump and plane stunt finale in TLD spring to mind.

Dan fighting on top of a speeding train certainly did that for me.

Was it speeding? Looked like about 25mph to me and I'm sorry but half most of that fight was just two blokes standing on top of a train. After the JCB it wasn't anywhere as good as OP's train sequence. Dan standing on top of a train with safety a wire or Martin Grace literally risking life and limb just hanging on for dear life in OP - I know which I would choose.

Well obviously EON and Mendes weren't going to let the film's star go on top of the train without wires, regardless of whether Dan was up for it or not. That would be immeasurably foolish.

I agree - that's why you have a profession called 'stuntman'. Kind of the point of my post which seems to have eluded you.

Getafix

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

QBranch wrote:

Yes, SF's PTS was pretty awesome for stunts, but it never quite made me think, 'holy crap, someone is actually doing that for real!'. I want that reaction again. The CR crane jump and plane stunt finale in TLD spring to mind.

Dan fighting on top of a speeding train certainly did that for me.

Was it speeding? Looked like about 25mph to me and I'm sorry but half most of that fight was just two blokes standing on top of a train. After the JCB it wasn't anywhere as good as OP's train sequence. Dan standing on top of a train with safety a wire or Martin Grace literally risking life and limb just hanging on for dear life in OP - I know which I would choose.

Well obviously EON and Mendes weren't going to let the film's star go on top of the train without wires, regardless of whether Dan was up for it or not. That would be immeasurably foolish.

I agree - that's why you have a profession called 'stuntman'. Kind of the point of my post which seems to have eluded you.

Totally agree. It's all very well Dan wanting to do his own stunts, but if it all has to be done through wires etc. then really, what's the point? We want the return of real, crazy stunts, not 'Dan on a Wire.

Getafix

Creasy47 wrote:

@Getafix, I was actually somewhat let down with the PTS clip I saw. I think it begins with Bond moving the bulldozer and ends with him landing in the train. Hell, him landing in the train was one of the coolest things I had seen in a while, but after seeing all the trailers and TV spots over and over again, it kind of lost its flavor. Yet another reason why I won't be rewatching all the trailers come B24.

True. I really need to try and avoid all the preproduction news and trailers or it'll ruin it for me. It's so tempting to see what's going on though.

QBranch

Yeah, knowing everything about SF ruined it for me, so I'm a bit worried about learning too much this time around. Easier said than done though, as we all know.

Creasy47

Getafix wrote:

Creasy47 wrote:

@Getafix, I was actually somewhat let down with the PTS clip I saw. I think it begins with Bond moving the bulldozer and ends with him landing in the train. Hell, him landing in the train was one of the coolest things I had seen in a while, but after seeing all the trailers and TV spots over and over again, it kind of lost its flavor. Yet another reason why I won't be rewatching all the trailers come B24.

True. I really need to try and avoid all the preproduction news and trailers or it'll ruin it for me. It's so tempting to see what's going on though.

Same. As I've said before, I don't know how many factors led to my disappointment in SF, but I feel like watching all of the trailers so much and seeing all the behind-the-scenes material kind of killed it for me. I'm going to avoid as much as I can, and while I know I won't have the ability to just not watch any trailers, I'm going to limit myself. No more watching them five or ten times a day; that was extreme and left no surprises for me.

RC7

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

QBranch wrote:

Yes, SF's PTS was pretty awesome for stunts, but it never quite made me think, 'holy crap, someone is actually doing that for real!'. I want that reaction again. The CR crane jump and plane stunt finale in TLD spring to mind.

Dan fighting on top of a speeding train certainly did that for me.

Was it speeding? Looked like about 25mph to me and I'm sorry but half most of that fight was just two blokes standing on top of a train. After the JCB it wasn't anywhere as good as OP's train sequence. Dan standing on top of a train with safety a wire or Martin Grace literally risking life and limb just hanging on for dear life in OP - I know which I would choose.

And two men slugging it on the back of a slow moving train is that the best we can expect from Bond? Hardly MR's parachute fight or TLD's cargo net is it?

This is a key mistake of the Craig era for me - Dan is keen to do hîs own stunts but the only ones he can do safely can't be, by definition, that spectacular. I like having the actor visibly getting stuck in (Christ no one wants a return to the days of AVTAK) but they should not design action sequences with keeping DC in view as much as possible the key criteria. There should always be a moment in a Bond film where the only person able to do a stunt is the world leader in his field be it skiing, parachuting, driving whatever.

This.

It's all about coverage. Stunts can be done for real and have an impact without unnecessary close-ups. Bin the CGI and bring in the stunts that made Bond the spectacle it was.

RogueAgent

marketto007 wrote:

Looks like the stunt coordinator Gary Powell is extremely excited with Bond 24. Here is an interview he gave to Jon Auty for Behind The Stunts.



He basicaly talks about his career in the Bond franchise and other movies. But the main part of the interview begins in 23m25s, where he talks about Bond 24.

"The outline is gonna be freaking fantastic"

"If Skyfall was Sam Mendes's way of getting his feet wet into the Bond franchise, this one his jumping into deep end"

:D

Well atleast we have something new and glad that Gary Powell is enthused about what he knows for Bond 24!

Creasy47

I do agree in that it's awesome to see him so excited for B24. I'm curious as to see what he manages to bring to the table.

Germanlady

QBranch wrote:

The SF train fight was great, but yes, I think it really was the train's apparent lack of speed that made it feel less risky to me. The only time the train *seemed* to be speeding was during the fight in the tunnel.

It was 55 miles/hour.

talos7

I think one of the problems with the Skyfall train sequence is that too often the train is filmed from afar with no objects nearby to give a point of reference and thus a feeling of speed. Think about driving down a road; even if you're doing 70mph, if there's noting close to the vehicle the speed is not really perceived. Now if you put objects in the near background and foreground the feeling of speed is greatly enhanced. In a way the wide open setting of the sequence worked against it.

Germanlady

What took away from it, IMO is, that it was shown to the world way too often in advance. Even if you were not a huge Bond fan, there was little chance to miss it. They should not give away too much of their best action moments. Happy to read Gary Powell. He certainly doesn't seem to be the guy to fake enthusiasm. So that is reassuring.

4EverBonded

Exactly, GL. We just saw so much of it. I actually did my best to avoid spoilers and not get overly saturated, including watching the trailer only a couple of times (okay maybe 4 times tops), and that helped a lot. I went to see Skyfall completely fresh and not burnt out. I didn't view scenes in the theater and then at the same time remember seeing them before.

Yes, Powell returning is good news, I believe.

Getafix

The SF trailer contained way too much, but that seems the norm for most films these days - they hardly keep anything back. I guess they think that with all the info that gets leaked from set these day it's hardly worth maintaining any secrecy.

Germanlady

I would rather assume, they feel its a good idea to show the best action parts to water audiences mouthes. I disagree...wet them with bits and pieces, but just that. Should build up enough interest.

Ludovico

Am I the only one wishing for a much more sober PTS, to contrast with SF and QOS?

Pierce2Daniel

Mendes discussing Bond 24 last night in Windsor:

http://www.screendaily.com/territories/uk-ireland/mendes-bringing-bond-out-of-the-bubble/5074025.article

It looks like he's ruling himself out for Bond 25. But in regards to his comments on Bond 24, it would seem to me that we will continue the thread of seeing a slightly older and more physically weary 007 in the next outing.

Edit: Here's a video of Mendes at the BFI a few weeks back (Bond stuff near the end):

Getafix

The photo is quite amusing. Why is Prince Edward interviewing Sam Mendes?!

Ludovico

News at last!

Germanlady

IMO, all he says is, that they will continue the more realistic approach regarding Bond. Not necessarely weary again. They had that and won't repeat themselves as a main plot.

But what abbout the script? He is writing it now?

JWESTBROOK

"..with a smile that might have indicated that wasn't a hard and fast rule."

More of this "I'm not returning.. maybe." crap we got out of him last time. If he doesn't want to come back for Bond 25, don't play around. Commit to it or commit to move on. Don't tease the producers and team and cause delays like we've had for Bond 24.

As far as the film's direction, I literally got nothing out of this article. It's just a 'watch this space' discussion, and really that's all we should expect right now. The fact that he says he's hammering out the script just days after we learned P&W are only working on dialogues is so confusing.

I hope at least the team behind the film know what's going on, because they sure don't know how to project their progress.

ColonelSun

Germanlady wrote:

IMO, all he says is, that they will continue the more realistic approach regarding Bond. Not necessarely weary again. They had that and won't repeat themselves as a main plot.

But what abbout the script? He is writing it now?

No Sam Mendes is not writing the screenplay as such, but all directors work extremely closely with the writer or writers - and that means frequent story and script meetings, conversations, trading ideas and re-thinking ideas, clarifying themes, layering characters etc. often with the producers present or closely involved in all discussions.

Mendes has already stated Bond 24 will continue to develop themes explored in Skyfall and, as such, I strongly suspect the story will dig deeper into Bond's character, perhaps even deeper into his past.

In Skyfall Bond was certainly weary and bitter after being left for dead, and his increasing age was acknowledged too, so I believe Mendes and his team - including Craig of course - want to keep exploring the Bond character under great pressure - as Fleming did. Mendes also mentioned that having seen Craig in Betrayal in New York, he was reminded what a great actor he is outside Bond and that he wanted to make sure Bond 24 gave Craig something meaty to get his acting chops into. (BTW, that's not Mendes' exact quote, but that's the gist of it.)

nobodydoesitbetter

Getafix wrote:

The photo is quite amusing. Why is Prince Edward interviewing Sam Mendes?!

Sam Mendes was speaking at a Films Without Borders event at Windsor Castle of which Prince Edward is a longtime supporter - hence why Mendes was being interviewed by the Prince.