SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • Posts: 6,601
    The casting of a henchman like this one, to me, sounds like real good fun and I am looking forward to it.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think people are blowing Bautista's casting way out of proportion for those who think he's unworthy just because of his affiliation with professional wrestling. Did you not stop to read the requirements of the part? He ticks every single box and to boot he's a very good actor. The series is known for casting complete nobodies in roles and they've turned out great. Tatyana Romanova; one if the best ond girls of all time was just a model with no acting experience, don't get me started on Lazenby, heck even Connery, a labourer with a few acting gigs here and there wasn't deemed worthy and from the moment he showed up on screen; he dominated a role that is the benchmark and is yet to be topped.

    Bautista is fantastic casting and with his work in film and even what he's done with the WWE he's going to make an awesome henchman. Again, he's going to surprise a lot of people.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Look at Lazenby, he was hired because Harry saw him in a commercial. I think people are blowing things out of proportions. The movie's not even out yet. We should reserve our judgments until then.
  • Posts: 15,229
    It's late and I've had a bit to drink so maybe its just me, but I don't really understand what you're saying here?

    I'm not on about the lead villian. I'm talking about the henchman. Somebody suggested The Rock for the henchman and everyone shot down the idea acting like he wasn't worthy of being in a Bond film because we've had Javier Bardem. Now the rumoured henchman is Baitista (essentially a cheaper version of The Rock) so those people (the ones saying EON wouldn't cast someone like The Rock) have been proven wrong.

    They have not been proven wrong as The Rock has not been cast. Yes, Bautista may be the henchman, but they did cast in the past people for their menacing appearance more than their acting skills, especially for the henchmen. And it worked, if the role was limited to fighting and looking mean. Heck, even in The Godfather the actor playing Luca Brasi was a former professional wrestler! And it worked beautifully.

    Maybe I am wrong, but when people objected to The Rock, it has more to do with his status more than his wrestling background. The Rock, unlike Bautista, is famous (heck, I'd venture to say that he is more famous than Bardem was when he was cast in SF), and famous for lead roles in action movies that, well, may not have the same standing as Bond films.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 5,767
    bondjames wrote: »
    Anyway, if he's cast I hope he does a good job - because we've been waiting a loooong time for a quality henchman - especially after that complete loser (with a wig) from QoS.
    That loser with a wig from QoS was one of the best henchmen ever to be in a Bond film. Although I´m not sure if the term henchman applies here.


    Ludovico wrote: »
    Maybe I am wrong, but when people objected to The Rock, it has more to do with his status more than his wrestling background. The Rock, unlike Bautista, is famous (heck, I'd venture to say that he is more famous than Bardem was when he was cast in SF), and famous for lead roles in action movies that, well, may not have the same standing as Bond films.
    I think you are very right there.

  • I never said Bautista was a bad casting idea. In fact I think he's a good choice.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It's late and I've had a bit to drink so maybe its just me, but I don't really understand what you're saying here?

    I'm not on about the lead villian. I'm talking about the henchman. Somebody suggested The Rock for the henchman and everyone shot down the idea acting like he wasn't worthy of being in a Bond film because we've had Javier Bardem. Now the rumoured henchman is Baitista (essentially a cheaper version of The Rock) so those people (the ones saying EON wouldn't cast someone like The Rock) have been proven wrong.

    They have not been proven wrong as The Rock has not been cast. Yes, Bautista may be the henchman, but they did cast in the past people for their menacing appearance more than their acting skills, especially for the henchmen. And it worked, if the role was limited to fighting and looking mean. Heck, even in The Godfather the actor playing Luca Brasi was a former professional wrestler! And it worked beautifully.

    Maybe I am wrong, but when people objected to The Rock, it has more to do with his status more than his wrestling background. The Rock, unlike Bautista, is famous (heck, I'd venture to say that he is more famous than Bardem was when he was cast in SF), and famous for lead roles in action movies that, well, may not have the same standing as Bond films.

    Some said he was too famous. Others said he was too bad an actor and acted like the Bond series was above him. Here's some quotes from the time
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    In all fairness, @JWESTBROOK, Craig and The Rock are nothing alike. I like The Rock in testosterone filled action movies. I think he brought good things to Fast And Furious and G.I. Joe. But here's the deal. The Rock is like good orange juice: works miracles at a pick-nick. But Bond is a class A restaurant. Nothing goes down without the best wines. The Rock is not a good wine. Give him another ten or fifteen years of fermentation and the orange juice might turn into fine wine though.

    Dwayne Johnson is a muscled guy who can throw a punch, run like a leopard and deliver a good Arnold line. And that's great! Again, I like the man. But I simply can't see him function in a Bond film just yet. He would feel out of place. There's a reason the likes of Sly, Vin Diesel, Bruce Willis, Jet-Li, Jackie Change, Bruce Lee, John Travolta, ... never get / got a part in a Bond film. You don't eat doughnuts, no matter how good, with foie gras.

    It's hard to put into words when casting choices are poor but as with porn, I think we can all agree we'll recognise it when we see it. ;-)

    The publicity argument doesn't work for me. There's bad publicity and there's bad publicity. Heath Ledger's suicide was bad publicity but The Dark Knight didn't suffer from it. Rather the opposite I'd say. But then Nolan hadn't cast Justin Bieber in his film either. THAT would have been damagingly bad publicity. ;-)
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No The Rock isn't as good an actor as Daniel Craig. But you hardly need an Oscar worthy actor to play a henchman in a Bond film do you?

    Robert Shaw? He didn't win an Oscar, but he was an amazing actor, maybe the greatest to ever be in a Bond movie. And a true artist. And he played maybe the best henchman in the series, mute for most of the movie, yet had presence.

    I am not saying all henchmen should be played by such actors, but there is nothing wrong about sometimes getting someone with actual acting skills and can display menace without grunting.

    This.

    So people didn't just write him off because he was famous. They wrote him off because he was a one note actor famous for action films. Bautista is the same. Wrestler turned actor, did some B movie action flicks and is now starting to really break out into Hollywood.

    Also, you say The Rock is famous for action movies that may not have the same standing as the Bond films. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Bond is at the end of the day an action/thriller film series. We've got some talented arty people making the films now but at the end of the day they're escapist action films and instead of acting like they're above other action franchises I think the people behind the films could learn a thing or two. The Rock is probably most famous for his role in the last two Fast And Furious films (the best ones). I don't know if you've seen them but the action scenes and fight scenes in those films blow anything in SF out of the water. Mendes should take notes.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I agree the fights in the last 2 FF movies wipe the floor with the fights in SF. Just look at Psul Walker's prison fight in the last one alone or Vin vs the rock in fast5. I think Mendes has taken note because he's called in Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights and he's also cast Bautista, which in itself is a testament to ramping up the fights.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I agree the fights in the last 2 FF movies wipe the floor with the fights in SF. Just look at Psul Walker's prison fight in the last one alone or Vin vs the rock in fast5. I think Mendes has taken note because he's called in Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights and he's also cast Bautista, which in itself is a testament to ramping up the fights.

    Sjees, the fights in our precious Bond films are not "Fast & Furious-esque" enough. Daniel Craig fighting Patrice inside that Chinese skycraper was "boring".

    Well, I can say one thing. I don't want to see "Bond 24" stripped off from its more stylistically, elegantly filmed fighting style. I myself loved the fighting scene in SF against that softly moving Jellyfish-background. It reminded me of George Lazenby fighting so violently, but doing it in a slimfit tuxedo, inside a wunderful luxury hotel. Again, the sheer contrast of it, the filming style, the lights.....made it work.

    I do agree that naturally we will see more heavy fist fights in Bond 24, because a big henchman is in it. And I love it. But please don't forget that fighting scenes need to be seen in the context of the screenplay, the story. So SF indeed had less fights because the screenplay did not demand it (although guys, do we forget the underwater fight in Scotland? Or the entire PTS on that train? Are we.....blind). And I'm convinced that even Dave Bautista needs fighting choreography lessons, so his fighting style doesn't become too WWE-esque and is indeed more Bond-like.

    But if we take "Fast & Furious" as an example and simply want more fist fights, regardless of the bigger context, the context of the screenplay and the story, than I'm getting worried.

    Moreover, I don't want Sam Mendes to draw inspiration from the "Fast & Furious" franchise. Bond has 50 years of fighting experience himself. Bond is better than those fast and furious testosterone filled car racers. I love to see the F&F movies, especially the last three. And inspiration comes with every filmmaker.
  • Posts: 908
    .
    Moreover, I don't want Sam Mendes to draw inspiration from the "Fast & Furious" franchise. Bond has 50 years of fighting experience himself. Bond is better than those fast and furious testosterone filled car racers. I love to see the F&F movies, especially the last three. And inspiration comes with every filmmaker.

    Don't you worry. He's much to busy copying Nolan.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 3,278
    Sjees, the fights in our precious Bond films are not "Fast & Furious-esque" enough. Daniel Craig fighting Patrice inside that Chinese skycraper was "boring".
    It sure did have a lot of style that fight. But then again... I'm not a sucker for style over substance. I couldn't tell who was who, and who was winning until the very last moment, so what's the point?

    Best fight Craig ever had, IMO, was when fighting Slate in QoS. That was brutal.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    .
    Moreover, I don't want Sam Mendes to draw inspiration from the "Fast & Furious" franchise. Bond has 50 years of fighting experience himself. Bond is better than those fast and furious testosterone filled car racers. I love to see the F&F movies, especially the last three. And inspiration comes with every filmmaker.

    Don't you worry. He's much to busy copying Nolan.

    So there are people in here who rather see Bond drawing inspiration from "Fast & Furious" than from Christopher Nolan. In all honesty, we're talking about fighting sequences.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Remember when somebody suggested The Rock for a henchman role and a bunch of people complained, acting like the Bond series was above casting him and that it'd never happen?

    Actually, I think it's to opposite. The Rock is above playing a small henchman role, no matter how prestigious the franchise.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Sjees, the fights in our precious Bond films are not "Fast & Furious-esque" enough. Daniel Craig fighting Patrice inside that Chinese skycraper was "boring".
    It sure did have a lot of style that fight. But then again... I'm not a sucker for style over substance. I couldn't tell who was who, and who was winning until the very last moment, so what's the point?

    Best fight Craig ever had, IMO, was when fighting Slate in QoS. That was brutal.

    The point is you use your fantasy a bit also? Instead of being presented everything in such a visually lazy and "all over the place" way to you. I also think it's a matter of taste. But saying that the fight with Slate in QOS is even better than the staircase fight in CR or the train fight in SF kind of escapes me really. Especially story-wise that Slate fight was kind of "there", without a context. But then again, that's your taste.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Best fight Craig ever had, IMO, was when fighting Slate in QoS. That was brutal.

    Which is also style over substance, it's not even necessary, just an excuse for a punch up. The Obanna fight is much better and at least has some narrative weight. He had to kill him.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Best fight Craig ever had, IMO, was when fighting Slate in QoS. That was brutal.

    Which is also style over substance, it's not even necessary, just an excuse for a punch up. The Obanna fight is much better and at least has some narrative weight. He had to kill him.

    Completely agreed. Like I said, a fight scene needs to be seen in the context of the story. Like you say "narrative weight".
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited October 2014 Posts: 11,139
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    The fights to some people in SF were insufficient. Nobody is saying we should get fights for the sake of it. What I do want is for the script to obviously(which goes without saying) call for fights when and as needed but you have to bear in mind the fact that these are still action movies. When other films and TV shows are besting Bond in the fight scenes department then there's a cause for concern; especially when the Craig era was off to such a great start in this area. Lazenby ' s fights in OHMS were/are infinitely superior to what ever we got in SF. OHMSS was in 1969 SF was in 2012; it's somewhat sad that such a comparison has to even be made because expectations of what we should be getting shouldn't be overshadowed by the execution of filming fighting from over 40 years ago.

    As for Bautista, he's a professional wrestler just like Peter Maivia (the rock's gramps)who squared off against Connery in Osato's office. Obviously he's going to need training and choreography assistance for the movie, you do realise that's what professional wrestling is all about right? So Bautista more than fits the role for this henchman and his experience as an animalistic fighter excites because it's a strong indication the fights are going to be more brutal than not just the underwhelmingness of SF but that of what we've seen so far for the Craig era.

    You want standard, half arsed potato punch ups? Go watch Roger Moore. I prefer to watch a film that conveys fist fights in a more credible and entertaining fashion and the fist fights in the last to FF movies are nothing to look down upon just because they're in a typical action popcorn vehicle. You can have all the glowing jellyfish backgrounds you want but at the end of the day, said jellyfish us more memorable than the lacklustre fight; location doesn't matter that much. We the it's I'm a toilet, hotel room, sewer, stairwell; the most important thing is that the fight is memorable, entertaining and in line with the nature of what Bond does for a profession. He's a hit man, an assassin and he's going to get into lengthy, vicious fights. Let's see it!
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 3,278
    RC7 wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Best fight Craig ever had, IMO, was when fighting Slate in QoS. That was brutal.

    Which is also style over substance, it's not even necessary, just an excuse for a punch up.
    Huh? Maybe the scene wasn't necessary, but I didn't see any silhouettes, fancy moving backgrounds or CGI. Just two guys having a go at each other in a hotel room.
    Like I said, a fight scene needs to be seen in the context of the story. Like you say "narrative weight".
    Huh? The fight in Shanghai was necessary? And in the "context of the story"? Are you kidding me? The only reason why they were fighting on top of the skyscraper to a "cool looking" CGI background, was because it would be cool to have Bond fighting a henchman on top of a skyscraper to a cool looking background. Patrice's presence there makes no sense, plotwise.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    Go skype with me then! You know what I mean then. I think I reflect my points perfectly, with arguments that have substance. Quote my stuff or else don't react man. I try and analyze your arguments. But all you do is starting your arguments, which are your opinions off course, with lines that make me sound like a stupid twat. Don't expect me to react then. I think I was damn clear in what I was saying.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I agree the fights in the last 2 FF movies wipe the floor with the fights in SF. Just look at Psul Walker's prison fight in the last one alone or Vin vs the rock in fast5. I think Mendes has taken note because he's called in Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights and he's also cast Bautista, which in itself is a testament to ramping up the fights.

    Again, who starts the comparisons here. And again, this is YOUR opinion dude. If you think Paul Walker's fight scene is superior over many fight scenes in SF, so be it then. I respect that. But I can disagree with that, state my own arguments why I disagree. But ALWAYS have respect man, and stop making me ridiculous by saying this:
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    It's like you are sighing constantly when I post stuff, as if you are constantly irritated by me. Well then, take a hike dude!

    Bond fans come in all grades and all shades of grey. There are guys who get inspired by one particular Bond film, others by other films. You can always disagree with me...and with my love for certain movies. But don't twist it in such a way that you make certain fans look like retards.
  • Posts: 3,278
    But don't twist it in such a way that you make certain fans look like retards.
    Like the following?
    The point is you use your fantasy a bit also? Instead of being presented everything in such a visually lazy and "all over the place" way to you.

  • Posts: 11,119
    Zekidk wrote: »
    But don't twist it in such a way that you make certain fans look like retards.
    Like the following?
    The point is you use your fantasy a bit also? Instead of being presented everything in such a visually lazy and "all over the place" way to you.

    You put that sentence out of the context. If that sentence was typed solely, without any context, then I can understand that people are angry. But really what I wanted to say is very plain: Fantasy needs to be used to actually enjoy that fighting scene in the Chinese skycraper. I'm not attacking that person for its entire behaviour on the forum!
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    Yeah, it's all about what kind of Bond you like. Some like to enjoy the more fun side or the action parts. I for one take a great story over the action. My personal opinion is that SF is a good film and that the fight scenes weren't that important in that particular story. I still think they are good. like the whole ending in Scotland and the whole chase in the station. But, as I wrote if the overall film is good I can go with less action.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Pajan005 wrote: »
    Yeah, it's all about what kind of Bond you like. Some like to enjoy the more fun side or the action parts. I for one take a great story over the action. My personal opinion is that SF is a good film and that the fight scenes weren't that important in that particular story. I still think they are good. like the whole ending in Scotland and the whole chase in the station. But, as I wrote if the overall film is good I can go with less action.

    Exactly. I respect also other people if they want a more "Fast & Furious-like" style of fighting. But I think one can disagree with that. It's something else if you put a person's entire posting behaviour in dispute. That's not nice.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The only films I enjoyed the fights in recently were The Raid, one and two, and that's because they're bat-shit crazy and the fights are what you go to see - not the kind of thing you transplant into the world of 007 in my opinion. I'd rather the focus was on stunt work, real, large-scale stunt work that feels tangible, but visceral and doesn't rely on CGI. When Bond started out no one was competing and Bond could out do just about anyone who came along, purely by way of their budget. That's not the same any more, there's no point trying to compete with modern action films, because that's how movies like F&F get bums on seats. Let them have their nonsensical, relentless action, it's their remit - A modern Bond should focus on telling a great yarn, with great villains, great eye candy and should deliver 'real' stunts, preferably in beautiful locations.

    Regards the fights - the reason the Obanna fight works is that it has the raw energy of the train fight in FRWL. It's two men scrapping, in the way two men would genuinely fight for their lives, not like video game or comic book characters, but like real men. Fights now are far too choreographed, too balletic, too precise (the edit has a big impact on this) even when they are supposed to be brutal, they're undermined by sheer volume and frequency. I'd like any fights we see in B24 to be hard hitting, but natural. Oh, and I don't think they need any more than two fights. One where Bond gets the living daylights kicked out of him and one where he almost does, but wins purely thanks to his wits.

    As a final point - I'd argue Craig comes across as much more of a hard b****** in the final scene of QoS than he does at any point during his fight scenes in that film. So more bad ass, measured Craig and less roid-rage Craig, please.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    RC7 wrote: »
    The only films I enjoyed the fights in recently were The Raid, one and two, and that's because they're bat-shit crazy and the fights are what you go to see - not the kind of thing you transplant into the world of 007 in my opinion. I'd rather the focus was on stunt work, real, large-scale stunt work that feels tangible, but visceral and doesn't rely on CGI. When Bond started out no one was competing and Bond could out do just about anyone who came along, purely by way of their budget. That's not the same any more, there's no point trying to compete with modern action films, because that's how movies like F&F get bums on seats. Let them have their nonsensical, relentless action, it's their remit - A modern Bond should focus on telling a great yarn, with great villains, great eye candy and should deliver 'real' stunts, preferably in beautiful locations.

    Regards the fights - the reason the Obanna fight works is that it has the raw energy of the train fight in FRWL. It's two men scrapping, in the way two men would genuinely fight for their lives, not like video game or comic book characters, but like real men. Fights now are far too choreographed, too balletic, too precise (the edit has a big impact on this) even when they are supposed to be brutal, they're undermined by sheer volume and frequency. I'd like any fights we see in B24 to be hard hitting, but natural. Oh, and I don't think they need any more than two fights. One where Bond gets the living daylights kicked out of him and one where he almost does, but wins purely thanks to his wits.

    As a final point - I'd argue Craig comes across as much more of a hard b****** in the final scene of QoS than he does at any point during his fight scenes in that film. So more bad ass, measured Craig and less roid-rage Craig, please.

    Brilliant post @RC7, you summed up my thoughts exactly. I prefer a couple of short, brutal fights an entire film full of carefully planned fight sequences when it comes to Bond. Let's not forget Bond's background is in boxing and judo, not kung-fu /:)
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    The only films I enjoyed the fights in recently were The Raid, one and two, and that's because they're bat-shit crazy and the fights are what you go to see - not the kind of thing you transplant into the world of 007 in my opinion. I'd rather the focus was on stunt work, real, large-scale stunt work that feels tangible, but visceral and doesn't rely on CGI. When Bond started out no one was competing and Bond could out do just about anyone who came along, purely by way of their budget. That's not the same any more, there's no point trying to compete with modern action films, because that's how movies like F&F get bums on seats. Let them have their nonsensical, relentless action, it's their remit - A modern Bond should focus on telling a great yarn, with great villains, great eye candy and should deliver 'real' stunts, preferably in beautiful locations.

    Regards the fights - the reason the Obanna fight works is that it has the raw energy of the train fight in FRWL. It's two men scrapping, in the way two men would genuinely fight for their lives, not like video game or comic book characters, but like real men. Fights now are far too choreographed, too balletic, too precise (the edit has a big impact on this) even when they are supposed to be brutal, they're undermined by sheer volume and frequency. I'd like any fights we see in B24 to be hard hitting, but natural. Oh, and I don't think they need any more than two fights. One where Bond gets the living daylights kicked out of him and one where he almost does, but wins purely thanks to his wits.

    As a final point - I'd argue Craig comes across as much more of a hard b****** in the final scene of QoS than he does at any point during his fight scenes in that film. So more bad ass, measured Craig and less roid-rage Craig, please.

    Nice post @RC7. I can't agree more.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited October 2014 Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    Go skype with me then! You know what I mean then. I think I reflect my points perfectly, with arguments that have substance. Quote my stuff or else don't react man. I try and analyze your arguments. But all you do is starting your arguments, which are your opinions off course, with lines that make me sound like a stupid twat. Don't expect me to react then. I think I was damn clear in what I was saying.

    Why would I quote you when my response encapsulates everything you've recently written, which ozs your familiar and traditional hogwash. If you think I'm making you sound like a stupid twat then that's your problem. I don't believe I'm making you sound like one but if that's how you feel...
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I agree the fights in the last 2 FF movies wipe the floor with the fights in SF. Just look at Psul Walker's prison fight in the last one alone or Vin vs the rock in fast5. I think Mendes has taken note because he's called in Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights and he's also cast Bautista, which in itself is a testament to ramping up the fights.

    Again, who starts the comparisons here. And again, this is YOUR opinion dude. If you think Paul Walker's fight scene is superior over many fight scenes in SF, so be it then. I respect that. But I can disagree with that, state my own arguments why I disagree. But ALWAYS have respect man, and stop making me ridiculous by saying this:

    Give it a rest already. Everything I say is obviously an opinion, stop stating what doesnt need to be stated as if it's a relevant rebuttal to an erroneous claim. Agree or disagree it's not, never has and nor should be a problem. If you're feeling ridiculous then maybe you should consider that you're doing that all by yourself with your full blown diva - like overreactions.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    It's like you are sighing constantly when I post stuff, as if you are constantly irritated by me. Well then, take a hike dude!

    Nope not at all but maybe you should take your own advice.
    Bond fans come in all grades and all shades of grey. There are guys who get inspired by one particular Bond film, others by other films. You can always disagree with me...and with my love for certain movies. But don't twist it in such a way that you make certain fans look like retards.

    And when did you come to this enlightenment? Again, I refer you to take your own advice because you are notorious for failing to accept that many Bond fans don't share your opinions on what makes for a great Bond film or casting and crew eligibility and where you claim to accept a difference of opinion, you're conspicuously passive aggressive in your approach.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    Go skype with me then! You know what I mean then. I think I reflect my points perfectly, with arguments that have substance. Quote my stuff or else don't react man. I try and analyze your arguments. But all you do is starting your arguments, which are your opinions off course, with lines that make me sound like a stupid twat. Don't expect me to react then. I think I was damn clear in what I was saying.

    Why would I quote you when my response encapsulates everything you've recently written, which ozs your familiar and traditional hogwash. If you think I'm making you sound like a stupid twat then that's your problem. I don't believe I'm making you sound like one but if that's how you feel...
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I agree the fights in the last 2 FF movies wipe the floor with the fights in SF. Just look at Psul Walker's prison fight in the last one alone or Vin vs the rock in fast5. I think Mendes has taken note because he's called in Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights and he's also cast Bautista, which in itself is a testament to ramping up the fights.

    Again, who starts the comparisons here. And again, this is YOUR opinion dude. If you think Paul Walker's fight scene is superior over many fight scenes in SF, so be it then. I respect that. But I can disagree with that, state my own arguments why I disagree. But ALWAYS have respect man, and stop making me ridiculous by saying this:

    Give it a rest already. Everything I say is obviously an opinion, stop stating what doesnt need to be stated as if it's a relevant rebuttal to an erroneous claim. Agree or disagree it's not, never has and nor should be a problem. If you're feeling ridiculous then maybe you should consider that you're doing that all by yourself with your full blown diva - like overreactions.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @Gustav, sometimes you talk too much without saying anything at all. Jeez.

    It's like you are sighing constantly when I post stuff, as if you are constantly irritated by me. Well then, take a hike dude!

    Nope not at all but maybe you should take your own advice.
    Bond fans come in all grades and all shades of grey. There are guys who get inspired by one particular Bond film, others by other films. You can always disagree with me...and with my love for certain movies. But don't twist it in such a way that you make certain fans look like retards.

    And when did you come to this enlightenment? Again, I refer you to take your own advice because you are notorious for failing to accept that many Bond fans don't share your opinions on what makes for a great Bond film or casting and crew eligibility and where you claim to accept a difference of opinion, you're conspicuously passive aggressive in your approach.

    I sent you a private message @doubleoego. Perhaps better if we continue there, instead of here? I welcome a good, fierceful chat or discussion. In real. Because I think on a forum things could get a bit too messy at times. I'm not that notorious like you say now.
  • Posts: 908
    Pajan005 wrote: »
    Yeah, it's all about what kind of Bond you like. I for one take a great story over the action. My personal opinion is that SF is a good film...

    Talking about contradiction!
  • Posts: 908
    RC7 wrote: »
    The only films I enjoyed the fights in recently were The Raid, one and two, and that's because they're bat-shit crazy and the fights are what you go to see - not the kind of thing you transplant into the world of 007 in my opinion. I'd rather the focus was on stunt work, real, large-scale stunt work that feels tangible, but visceral and doesn't rely on CGI. When Bond started out no one was competing and Bond could out do just about anyone who came along, purely by way of their budget. That's not the same any more, there's no point trying to compete with modern action films, because that's how movies like F&F get bums on seats. Let them have their nonsensical, relentless action, it's their remit - A modern Bond should focus on telling a great yarn, with great villains, great eye candy and should deliver 'real' stunts, preferably in beautiful locations.

    Regards the fights - the reason the Obanna fight works is that it has the raw energy of the train fight in FRWL. It's two men scrapping, in the way two men would genuinely fight for their lives, not like video game or comic book characters, but like real men. Fights now are far too choreographed, too balletic, too precise (the edit has a big impact on this) even when they are supposed to be brutal, they're undermined by sheer volume and frequency. I'd like any fights we see in B24 to be hard hitting, but natural. Oh, and I don't think they need any more than two fights. One where Bond gets the living daylights kicked out of him and one where he almost does, but wins purely thanks to his wits.

    As a final point - I'd argue Craig comes across as much more of a hard b****** in the final scene of QoS than he does at any point during his fight scenes in that film. So more bad ass, measured Craig and less roid-rage Craig, please.

    I very rarely say/write this,but I happen to agree with every single letter in this post.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Pajan005 wrote: »
    Yeah, it's all about what kind of Bond you like. I for one take a great story over the action. My personal opinion is that SF is a good film...

    Talking about contradiction!

    People accuse me for posting way too much lengthy nonsense at times. But these kind of oneliners kind of need some elaboration no?
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