SPECTRE Production Timeline

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Comments

  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Problem with casting German speakers as villains is that it is a bit cliche. But then sometimes typecasting is the way to go.

    Casting a villain, the very word "villain", in the first place is a prime example of typecasting.......if you want it or not.

    Umm, no. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting_(acting) Casting Waltz to play the villain would be typecasting, casting Tom Cruise to play the villain would be casting against type.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Re: typecasting, does anybody complain about Christopher Lee playing Saruman or Scaramanga?
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Problem with casting German speakers as villains is that it is a bit cliche. But then sometimes typecasting is the way to go.

    Casting a villain, the very word "villain", in the first place is a prime example of typecasting.......if you want it or not.

    Umm, no. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting_(acting) Casting Waltz to play the villain would be typecasting, casting Tom Cruise to play the villain would be casting against type.

    Ufff, that's a hefty bit of research :D.

    In any case. Typecasting or not.....in the end it's about the result of the role. It's about trying to foresee if a certain actor can work or not. I thoroughly enjoyed Waltz in "Django Unchained", in which he did not play a villain at all. Moreover, have you actually checked his performance in "Inglorious Basterds"? It's the role that cemented his name in Hollywood. So obviously people will remember him from that role once he is casted in Bond 24. But so was Javier Bardem and his role in "No Country For Old Men". I absolutely don't see why casting Waltz is a lackluster boring choice, if this is what EON did with Javier Bardem as well. Waltz is 200% charismatic.....a masterful actor. Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    At this point I think it looks very likely that the main villain will be played by a black actor and Bond never needed brand name actors.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    Elba has a physical gravitas that Waltz lacks. He has the dominant presence of a Connery. I agree that Waltz is a great actor, but of the two I think Elba is the more exciting, and more importantly the more interesting choice.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    Elba has a physical gravitas that Waltz lacks. He has the dominant presence of a Connery. I agree that Waltz is a great actor, but of the two I think Elba is the more exciting, and more importantly the more interesting choice.

    Then we fully disagree :-).

    I am gay, and I think Idris Elba is simply too cute and too sexy for the role of leading villain. And like you say, too much Connery-esque presence. I simply don't want him to be as dominant as Connery. I want him to be as dominant as Joseph Wiseman or Lotte Lenya.

    Look at Elba:
    idris_elba-440856.jpg

    And compare his facial looks with Waltz:
    Christoph-Waltz.jpg

    Elba has too cute, soft jaw lines. Waltz chin and jaw are more fierce IMO. I just can't see Elba pulling off another Silva or Largo. I can't see Elba wearing black contact lenses and still pull of a credible villain. It's different with Javier Bardem and Christoph Waltz.

    In all honesty, then I really prefer Chiwetel Eijofor:
    michael-fassbender-chiwetel-ejiofor-winners-at-aacta-awards-2014-12.jpg

    He has bigger eyes, larger bags under his eyes, more prominent cheeks. I can see him portray a perfect psychotic.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    At this point I think it looks very likely that the main villain will be played by a black actor and Bond never needed brand name actors.

    Agreed. And Elba is known, just not a big star.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Look at Elba:
    And compare his facial looks with Waltz:

    First of all, these are just photos. Watch any movie with Elba in it, he is great! Also, I think Elba looks far more intimidating than both Waltz and Eijofor.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Re: typecasting, does anybody complain about Christopher Lee playing Saruman or Scaramanga?

    Exactly. Watch Jim Carrey in a serious role. It is just...boring. Or Jack Palance as a nice guy. It is just wrong.
  • Posts: 908
    Look at Elba:
    And compare his facial looks with Waltz:

    First of all, these are just photos. Watch any movie with Elba in it, he is great! Also, I think Elba looks far more intimidating than both Waltz and Eijofor.

    Absolutely agreed. Waltz looks as if he was Dominique Green Senior and this Eiofor (at least on this picture) looks as menacing as a teddy bear.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Elba too cute? Handsome maybe, although I'm a bad judge, but cute he's not. He played ruthless characters in the past and looks far more menacing than Ejiofor. He can look brutish like many Fleming villains.

    And when was a commanding presence a problem for the main villain? My only reservation is that with such physique, an henchman is less necessary.
  • Posts: 3,276
    This is getting ridiculous. 145 posts without a single piece of real news!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I am gay, and I think Idris Elba is simply too cute and too sexy for the role of leading villain. And like you say, too much Connery-esque presence. I simply don't want him to be as dominant as Connery. I want him to be as dominant as Joseph Wiseman or Lotte Lenya.

    Elba has too cute, soft jaw lines. Waltz chin and jaw are more fierce IMO. I just can't see Elba pulling off another Silva or Largo. I can't see Elba wearing black contact lenses and still pull of a credible villain. It's different with Javier Bardem and Christoph Waltz.

    See, I think the fact you find Elba attractive a more interesting reason to cast such an actor. You mention him having to pull off a Silva or Largo, but for me he doesn't have to pull off anything resembling these two, or any canonical villains for that matter. I actually think that the dynamic of having a villain who is as much, if not more attractive than Craig, is quite original. Remembering that on top of sheer aesthetics, the actor has to embody something inherently evil, potentially psychotic, and above all they must have an electric presence. Goldfinger, in his way, is a match for Connery when it comes to sheer magnetism. Elba has that in spades and then some. He can also be explosive – if you’ve ever seen Luther you’ll know what I’m talking about. This is a guy who can really shit you up; he’s a force of nature when in full flow. I’m sure you won’t agree, but that’s cool.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Look at Elba:
    And compare his facial looks with Waltz:

    First of all, these are just photos. Watch any movie with Elba in it, he is great! Also, I think Elba looks far more intimidating than both Waltz and Eijofor.

    Then I also disagree with you hehe :-). Bond never needed a "big name"? Off course Bond doesn't need specifically a big name. But it did do some tremendously satisfying things to the villain in SF. Are there actually people who.....admire Bardem's portrayal of Silva? Or do we prefer a more.....masculine, down-to-earth, less grotesque, equal-to-Bond....villain? Because I think Elba can play that kind of......villain.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I would actually prefer an ugly villain, like Fleming's. Or at least brutish looking, in spite of his beauty. But in any case, Bardem is handsome, Silva was not. And I find Elba's face far more malleable than Ejiofor's. Far more menacing too.
  • Posts: 908
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Problem with casting German speakers as villains is that it is a bit cliche. But then sometimes typecasting is the way to go.

    Casting a villain, the very word "villain", in the first place is a prime example of typecasting.......if you want it or not.

    Umm, no. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting_(acting) Casting Waltz to play the villain would be typecasting, casting Tom Cruise to play the villain would be casting against type.

    Ufff, that's a hefty bit of research :D.
    .... Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    If Cubby and Saltzman would have subscribed to your point of view they would have thrown most of their Dr No budget at Cary Grant and Janet Leigh as Honeychile.Then they had just about everything filmed at pinewood and as a result would have had a moderately successful one ( maybe a two ) of, which would have been the end of James Bonds cinema adventures ( perhaps followed by a TV series). Glad they preferred the creative way and exotic locations and I sincerely hope Bond 24 gives us back the real thing and not some mediocre tries to resemble the real world!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Problem with casting German speakers as villains is that it is a bit cliche. But then sometimes typecasting is the way to go.

    Casting a villain, the very word "villain", in the first place is a prime example of typecasting.......if you want it or not.

    Umm, no. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting_(acting) Casting Waltz to play the villain would be typecasting, casting Tom Cruise to play the villain would be casting against type.

    Ufff, that's a hefty bit of research :D.
    .... Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    If Cubby and Saltzman would have subscribed to your point of view they would have thrown most of their Dr No budget at Cary Grant and Janet Leigh as Honeychile.Then they had just about everything filmed at pinewood and as a result would have had a moderately successful one ( maybe a two ) of, which would have been the end of James Bonds cinema adventures ( perhaps followed by a TV series). Glad they preferred the creative way and exotic locations and I sincerely hope Bond 24 gives us back the real thing and not some mediocre tries to resemble the real world!

    Sjee......is the Bond franchise in such a bad shape @Matt_Helm ? I didn't know....
  • Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Problem with casting German speakers as villains is that it is a bit cliche. But then sometimes typecasting is the way to go.

    Casting a villain, the very word "villain", in the first place is a prime example of typecasting.......if you want it or not.

    Umm, no. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting_(acting) Casting Waltz to play the villain would be typecasting, casting Tom Cruise to play the villain would be casting against type.

    Ufff, that's a hefty bit of research :D.
    .... Idris Elba is a good choice.....but.....I'm just not convinced a lot. He lacks a certain "brand name", like with Bardem. So why moving away from that path?

    If Cubby and Saltzman would have subscribed to your point of view they would have thrown most of their Dr No budget at Cary Grant and Janet Leigh as Honeychile.Then they had just about everything filmed at pinewood and as a result would have had a moderately successful one ( maybe a two ) of, which would have been the end of James Bonds cinema adventures ( perhaps followed by a TV series). Glad they preferred the creative way and exotic locations and I sincerely hope Bond 24 gives us back the real thing and not some mediocre tries to resemble the real world!

    Sjee......is the Bond franchise in such a bad shape @Matt_Helm ? I didn't know....

    Just take a thorough look at SF,then you do.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Disagree... doesn't matter none of this news.
  • Posts: 15,125
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    I'm wondering the same thing. If Elba is not mean enough I wonder who is. Especially if you compare him to Ejiofor!
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    Okay, here we go:

    "Thor": An understated performance of Elba as Heimdall the Guard to put it very positively. In any other way, quite a forgettable performance.
    "Prometheus": Part of an ensemble cast. Nice role as helmsman, but not impressive.
    "RocknRolla": Now in that movie I liked him :-). But it's from 2008.
    "Pacific Rim": Nice popcorn blockbuster...and I liked Elba in this one. Again, he played a good guy, but with lots of charisma (for a good-y).
    "No Good Deed": Downloaded this movie, as the reviews were rather bad. Kind of cliché revenche movie, though I liked Elba as the baddie. But just "liked". Never as impressive as, let's say, Waltz in "Inglorious Basterds" or Bardem in "NCFOM".
    "Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom": Nice but IMO slightly unoriginal biopic. I liked Elba as Mandela. Perfectly cast here.
    "Obsessed": Well, I couldn't be bothered to watch this one. Starring opposite Beyoncé Knowles...how lovely. But the above films I all saw.

    So please don't say I haven't seen his movies :-). Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed. Too many "nice" roles, not any outstanding lead so far. If Debbie McWilliams invites him for a casting session, I would be very surprised. Especially after the success of Mads Mikkelsen and Javier Bardem.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed.

    You've never seen The Wire then?
  • Posts: 4,619
    If Debbie McWilliams invites him for a casting session, I would be very surprised.

    I don't think it's up to Debbie McWilliams. ;)
  • Posts: 15,125
    RC7 wrote: »
    Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed.

    You've never seen The Wire then?

    I was about to ask the same thing. And while Stringer Bell is an ambiguous caractere with his weaknesses, he is certainly no nice guy. Ruthless, not shy to use violence when necessary, scheming...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    Okay, here we go:

    "Thor": An understated performance of Elba as Heimdall the Guard to put it very positively. In any other way, quite a forgettable performance.
    "Prometheus": Part of an ensemble cast. Nice role as helmsman, but not impressive.
    "RocknRolla": Now in that movie I liked him :-). But it's from 2008.
    "Pacific Rim": Nice popcorn blockbuster...and I liked Elba in this one. Again, he played a good guy, but with lots of charisma (for a good-y).
    "No Good Deed": Downloaded this movie, as the reviews were rather bad. Kind of cliché revenche movie, though I liked Elba as the baddie. But just "liked". Never as impressive as, let's say, Waltz in "Inglorious Basterds" or Bardem in "NCFOM".
    "Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom": Nice but IMO slightly unoriginal biopic. I liked Elba as Mandela. Perfectly cast here.
    "Obsessed": Well, I couldn't be bothered to watch this one. Starring opposite Beyoncé Knowles...how lovely. But the above films I all saw.

    So please don't say I haven't seen his movies :-). Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed. Too many "nice" roles, not any outstanding lead so far. If Debbie McWilliams invites him for a casting session, I would be very surprised. Especially after the success of Mads Mikkelsen and Javier Bardem.

    OK let me explain, listing a few movies he's been in serves my point that you haven't seen much of his work. I say this based on what you've said compared to the fact that I've followed his career since the 90s as he's someone I'm vested in because he was quite well known in where I used to live growing which is where he also lived; Hackney and i've seen him perform live in the flesh and to say he's soft or cant be mean or tough is a bit of a joke, especially when you consider where he grew up; in this regard he's more qualified than you think.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 6,844
    Where did this idea come from that Christoph Waltz is typecast for playing villains? As far as I'm aware he only played a major villain in Inglorious Basterds. How is that any different than Javier Bardem having previously played a major villain in No Country for Old Men? Maybe Waltz has played other villainous parts as well, but surely those parts have not been so frequent or so famous as to preclude him from playing a Bond villain one day. Whether or not Bond 24 is the film for him, I'd love to see Waltz join the franchise as a main baddie.
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    Okay, here we go:

    "Thor": An understated performance of Elba as Heimdall the Guard to put it very positively. In any other way, quite a forgettable performance.
    "Prometheus": Part of an ensemble cast. Nice role as helmsman, but not impressive.
    "RocknRolla": Now in that movie I liked him :-). But it's from 2008.
    "Pacific Rim": Nice popcorn blockbuster...and I liked Elba in this one. Again, he played a good guy, but with lots of charisma (for a good-y).
    "No Good Deed": Downloaded this movie, as the reviews were rather bad. Kind of cliché revenche movie, though I liked Elba as the baddie. But just "liked". Never as impressive as, let's say, Waltz in "Inglorious Basterd
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    Okay, here we go:

    "Thor": An understated performance of Elba as Heimdall the Guard to put it very positively. In any other way, quite a forgettable performance.
    "Prometheus": Part of an ensemble cast. Nice role as helmsman, but not impressive.
    "RocknRolla": Now in that movie I liked him :-). But it's from 2008.
    "Pacific Rim": Nice popcorn blockbuster...and I liked Elba in this one. Again, he played a good guy, but with lots of charisma (for a good-y).
    "No Good Deed": Downloaded this movie, as the reviews were rather bad. Kind of cliché revenche movie, though I liked Elba as the baddie. But just "liked". Never as impressive as, let's say, Waltz in "Inglorious Basterds" or Bardem in "NCFOM".
    "Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom": Nice but IMO slightly unoriginal biopic. I liked Elba as Mandela. Perfectly cast here.
    "Obsessed": Well, I couldn't be bothered to watch this one. Starring opposite Beyoncé Knowles...how lovely. But the above films I all saw.

    So please don't say I haven't seen his movies :-). Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed. Too many "nice" roles, not any outstanding lead so far. If Debbie McWilliams invites him for a casting session, I would be very surprised. Especially after the success of Mads Mikkelsen and Javier Bardem.

    OK let me explain, listing a few movies he's been in serves my point that you haven't seen much of his work. I say this based on what you've said compared to the fact that I've followed his career since the 90s as he's someone I'm vested in because he was quite well known in where I used to live growing which is where he also lived; Hackney and i've seen him perform live in the flesh and to say he's soft or cant be mean or tough is a bit of a joke, especially when you consider where he grew up; in this regard he's more qualified than you think.

    Wow, I don't know what to say. So you say that listing these movies that I've seen is pointless in giving some arguments on why I want to see or not to see Elba as Bond villain?

    I have great respect for you, and I admire the fact that you have been following this actor, because he came from the same neighborhood as you came from. But really....if that was an argument to give Elba the job, Ithen I would be worried. Also, I'd love my fellow countrywoman Carice van Houten to play the leading Bond girl. But I still think there are better possibilities. So I won't let certain pride interfer with that.

    In all honesty, I haven't seen hbo's "The Wire
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. Elba too soft and not mean - looking enough??? OK so it's clear many people haven't seen much of his work. Period. Dude can be a beast but some of the criteria I'm hearing in general to cast a villain just sounds a bit wish-washy.

    Okay, here we go:

    "Thor": An understated performance of Elba as Heimdall the Guard to put it very positively. In any other way, quite a forgettable performance.
    "Prometheus": Part of an ensemble cast. Nice role as helmsman, but not impressive.
    "RocknRolla": Now in that movie I liked him :-). But it's from 2008.
    "Pacific Rim": Nice popcorn blockbuster...and I liked Elba in this one. Again, he played a good guy, but with lots of charisma (for a good-y).
    "No Good Deed": Downloaded this movie, as the reviews were rather bad. Kind of cliché revenche movie, though I liked Elba as the baddie. But just "liked". Never as impressive as, let's say, Waltz in "Inglorious Basterds" or Bardem in "NCFOM".
    "Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom": Nice but IMO slightly unoriginal biopic. I liked Elba as Mandela. Perfectly cast here.
    "Obsessed": Well, I couldn't be bothered to watch this one. Starring opposite Beyoncé Knowles...how lovely. But the above films I all saw.

    So please don't say I haven't seen his movies :-). Nice filmography Elba has, but I'm by far not impressed. Too many "nice" roles, not any outstanding lead so far. If Debbie McWilliams invites him for a casting session, I would be very surprised. Especially after the success of Mads Mikkelsen and Javier Bardem.

    OK let me explain, listing a few movies he's been in serves my point that you haven't seen much of his work. I say this based on what you've said compared to the fact that I've followed his career since the 90s as he's someone I'm vested in because he was quite well known in where I used to live growing which is where he also lived; Hackney and i've seen him perform live in the flesh and to say he's soft or cant be mean or tough is a bit of a joke, especially when you consider where he grew up; in this regard he's more qualified than you think.

    Wow, I don't know what to say. So you say that listing these movies that I've seen is pointless in giving some arguments on why I want to see or not to see Elba as Bond villain?

    I have great respect for you, and I admire the fact that you have been following this actor, because he came from the same neighborhood as you came from. But really....if that was an argument to give Elba the job, Ithen I would be worried. Also, I'd love my fellow countrywoman Carice van Houten to play the leading Bond girl. But I still think there are better possibilities. So I won't let certain pride I have for the marvellous van Houten interfer with that.

    In all honesty, I have only seen the first season of HBO's "The Wire" so far. That was two years ago. I was terribly busy with a lot of other stuff. But I do need to catch up with Obama's favourite television series.
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