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Worst Fleming Bond Novel?

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  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    Ludovico wrote:
    YOLT might actually be one of Fleming's best, certainly the deepest. It is not only a spy thriller, in fact it is not so much a thriller than a story about identity: Bond ceases to be Bond after his wife's death, losing himself drinking and becoming sloppy, then goes to Japan to regain his self, to reconstruct his identity, only to lose it again when he loses his memory. Blofeld himself, the Moriarty of Bond, his nemesis, already a shapeshifter in the previous two novels, is now a full out demon, Satan in human shape I think Tanaka says, motivated not by greed or snobbery or vanity, but pure malevolence. Blofeld has now reached his ultimate and perfect incarnation.

    @Ludovico, what a brilliant summation.
    I started reading this stuff when I was ten. I read Dr.No first and then the rest in chronological order. The first two that I bought in JC first editions were OHMSS & YOLT in '63 and '64 respectively.
    As I said previously, I've revisited most of them multiple times and confirmed that my initial comprehension was actually quite strong. Given your appreciation, I fear YOLT could have been the exception. I will read it again - thanks!

  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,858
    Goldfinger absolutly hated the novel
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    Villiers53 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    YOLT might actually be one of Fleming's best, certainly the deepest. It is not only a spy thriller, in fact it is not so much a thriller than a story about identity: Bond ceases to be Bond after his wife's death, losing himself drinking and becoming sloppy, then goes to Japan to regain his self, to reconstruct his identity, only to lose it again when he loses his memory. Blofeld himself, the Moriarty of Bond, his nemesis, already a shapeshifter in the previous two novels, is now a full out demon, Satan in human shape I think Tanaka says, motivated not by greed or snobbery or vanity, but pure malevolence. Blofeld has now reached his ultimate and perfect incarnation.

    @Ludovico, what a brilliant summation.
    I started reading this stuff when I was ten. I read Dr.No first and then the rest in chronological order. The first two that I bought in JC first editions were OHMSS & YOLT in '63 and '64 respectively.
    As I said previously, I've revisited most of them multiple times and confirmed that my initial comprehension was actually quite strong. Given your appreciation, I fear YOLT could have been the exception. I will read it again - thanks!

    Oh and I forgot the whole ''transformation'' into a Japanese. First as a disguise, then when he loses his memory, he ''becomes' one. 007 turned into a dim-witted Japanese fisherman. There are things in Fleming's novels they never dare to bring on the screen so far. This is one of them.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    DAF must be my NSF @Dragonpol!
  • PerdoggPerdogg
    Posts: 686
    I would have to say the two weakest were Goldfinger and The Man with the Golden Gun.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Only read 2 Flemings but read somewhere The Spy Who Loved Me is the worst because it is mostly set in a motel room and Bond doesn't appear till the end.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    007InVT wrote:
    DAF must be my NSF @Dragonpol!

    Is that a good or a bad thing. I think both novels are excellent, though clearly Fleming was a one of a kind author never to be truly replicated again.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I've only read the first two, Casino Royale and Live and Let Die. LALD was by far the worst of the two; I was just bored with it and skimmed the last 70 pages to be done with it. I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    QsAssistant wrote:
    I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.

    :O
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.

    :O

    My thought exactly.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2013 Posts: 18,343
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.

    :O

    My thought exactly.

    And mine. Moonraker is a most excellent novel. My personal favourite, but there's no pleasing some people, I suppose.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.

    :O

    My thought exactly.

    And mine. Moonraker is a most excellent novel. My personal favourite, but there's no pleasing some people, I suppose.

    Oh dear. Will probably come back tomorrow saying he's just finished Devil May Care and it was brilliant.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    I tried to start Moonraker but just couldn't get into it. Someday I want to get around to reading On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice, the others I don't really care about.

    :O

    My thought exactly.

    And mine. Moonraker is a most excellent novel. My personal favourite, but there's no pleasing some people, I suppose.

    Oh dear. Will probably come back tomorrow saying he's just finished Devil May Care and it was brilliant.
    And next? Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
  • timmertimmer
    edited June 2013 Posts: 4,622
    Clearly a cinema fan, but not a Fleming fan.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    timmer wrote:
    Clearly a cinema fan, but not a Fleming fan.

    Yes, and sadly the two don't really mix that much.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2013 Posts: 17,827
    Dragonpol wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Clearly a cinema fan, but not a Fleming fan.

    Yes, and sadly the two don't really mix that much.

    :O
    They CAN, I guess you mean that they usually don't-?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    chrisisall wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Clearly a cinema fan, but not a Fleming fan.

    Yes, and sadly the two don't really mix that much.

    :O

    I meant that Fleming and the films are often so very different. Sorry if I did not convey the correct meaning there @chrisisall.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    TMWTGG is fantastic. That opening is one of the best sequences in the entire novel series.

    I'm not including TSWLM here for obvious reasons. I'm gonna go with Goldfinger.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    Fleming had a genius, but it wasn't all encompassing. I think his strength came from the voice he brought to his stories, that fit them so well. The journalistic, descriptive, punchy sentences really give it live and are probably responsible for that initial burst of interest. Casino was a novel written like an article, and I think that was fresh at the time. Its said he wrote it over 6 weeks, just typing out whatever came into his head. The idea must have been swirling around the old dome for years, one presumes.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    No bad Fleming novels, only people who can't appreciate them. ;-)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    TB-- perhaps because Fleming was trying to stuff an original screenplay, into a novel...? The last time I read it, it was a slog and lacked the effortless dimensions and descriptives of Fleming... It was clunky and boring... Very frustrating...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,380
    peter wrote: »
    TB-- perhaps because Fleming was trying to stuff an original screenplay, into a novel...? The last time I read it, it was a slog and lacked the effortless dimensions and descriptives of Fleming... It was clunky and boring... Very frustrating...

    I agree with you. Ironic then that it was this novel that caused Fleming so much trouble, and may have cost him his life...
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    No bad Fleming novels, only people who can't appreciate them. ;-)

    Truth, although one can have one's least favourite I guess, maybe, barely......
    All 14 volumes are double-plus excellent!
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,165
    I'm working my way through literary Bond for the first time and I just finished Dr No. This will fit right in with the controversial opinions thread, but Moonraker has been my least favorite thus far. It may be movie bias talking here, but I felt the novel was agonizingly mundane given the scope of the story.

    For reference, Dr No has been my favorite by far. I'd rank them:

    1. Dr. No
    2. From Russia With Love
    3. Live and Let Die
    4. Diamonds Are Forever
    5. Casino Royale
    6. Moonraker
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Fleming's great skill was his observation of people and his ability to create believable characters. His descriptive passages are the best of any writer. He wrote for adults who had experience of life in all its forms.
    Hence why TSWLM and QOS deal more with the emotional side of life's troubles.The destruction of a relationship, the subtle turning of love to hate.
    Fleming was a skilled and nuanced writer, perhaps some would be better off reading some Dan Brown or JK Rowling, if Fleming is too advanced for them.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    I'll sometimes skip TSWLM when doing a reread of all the Fleming's, but DAF does annoy me in places. Bond is a bit of a doofus in that one. There are things that he should pick up on and doesn't, and when it could be a matter of life or death then he really should be a bit quicker on the up-take.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Diamonds are Forever was always the one I found the most tedious.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I was and am disappointed by GF - because the movie is so much better IMHO and the strange Octopus chapter in DN I find simply disturbing and strange.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @SeanCraig , I agree-- DN's obstacle course is strange, and, the final battle with a giant squid feels as if Fleming kinda made it up on the spot... as if he wrote, what terrible things will Bond have to survive, and, the final one being this surreal battle with the sea monster... Not one of my favourites...

    Re: TB again, as noted above, I found it not only a slog, but did anyone else find that Leiter (a character I love), was unlikeable and most of his interaction was bitching about something or other?? Fleming creates great character, but this is not the Leiter I had met in CR, or LALD!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    peter wrote: »
    @SeanCraig , I agree-- DN's obstacle course is strange, and, the final battle with a giant squid feels as if Fleming kinda made it up on the spot... as if he wrote, what terrible things will Bond have to survive, and, the final one being this surreal battle with the sea monster... Not one of my favourites...

    Re: TB again, as noted above, I found it not only a slog, but did anyone else find that Leiter (a character I love), was unlikeable and most of his interaction was bitching about something or other?? Fleming creates great character, but this is not the Leiter I had met in CR, or LALD!

    I think he did wrote them on the spot - all the books that is. I heard he took roughly six weeks to 2 months on writing from start to finish. That was where he was truly skilled.
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