How the hell was Newman nominated for an oscar but not Barry?

2»

Comments

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    it is quite frankly hallucinating to conclude that in his lifetime he never received an Oscar

    I'm sorry?

    You might want to read the entire sentence, @TheWizardOfIce. :-) John Barry never received an Oscar for any of his Bond scores. He wasn't even nominated for one.

    @TheWizardOfIce, I'm still in anticipation of your explanation of "I'm sorry?". I never figured out what it is about my post that made you say that. :-)

    I've read the sentence in its entirety several times and still fail to glean any sense from it.

    You might want to look up the definition of 'hallucinating'. Substitute that word with 'unbelievable' or 'outrageous' and I haven't got a problem.
  • Posts: 87
    Newman's music for Skyfall is worse than most Bond scores but the Academy should give Him the Oscar to commemorate Bond music (especially Barry's influence) for 50th Bond's Anniversary. Adele's song should win the Oscar because: 1. it is great 2. has very week competitors 3. most earlier Bond songs should have got Oscar.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    You might want to look up the definition of 'hallucinating'. Substitute that word with 'unbelievable' or 'outrageous' and I haven't got a problem.

    Well okay then, we're talking semantics here. ;-) Problem solved!

  • Posts: 135
    I am completely disillusioned that some "bond fans" on this site are pissed off about SF receiving this nomination and actually want to see Newman lose.

    You're argument is that Barry's score more impressive and iconic? well duh! No one's going to debate that. Slandering the academy isn't going to change the past or make your "argument" any more intelligent. I am so happy that Newman's score get nominated because he scored a Bond film, and I am a Bond fan!
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Qba007 wrote:
    Newman's music for Skyfall is worse than most Bond scores but the Academy should give Him the Oscar to commemorate Bond music (especially Barry's influence) for 50th Bond's Anniversary. Adele's song should win the Oscar because: 1. it is great 2. has very week competitors 3. most earlier Bond songs should have got Oscar.

    I think giving Newman an Oscar for a very average score in order to recognise Barry's legacy would actually be an insult to Barry. The academy is moronic as everyone knows - if SF does win for best score it would just cement their status.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Quantum07 wrote:
    I am completely disillusioned that some "bond fans" on this site are pissed off about SF receiving this nomination and actually want to see Newman lose.

    You're argument is that Barry's score more impressive and iconic? well duh! No one's going to debate that. Slandering the academy isn't going to change the past or make your "argument" any more intelligent. I am so happy that Newman's score get nominated because he scored a Bond film, and I am a Bond fan!

    That argument is BS. So if DAD got a best picture nominations you'd be happy? Sure it's a bad film that doesn't deserve awards but your a Bond fan and it's a Bond film!

    I want Bond to win awards I think it deserves. I think Newmans score was bland, generic, forgettable and overhyped, I think he only got nominated because he's Newman and I don't think the SF score came close to most of the Arnold scores, let alone Barry's.

    So yes I don't want him to win and if that means in your eyes I'm not a true Bond fan I don't give a toss.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Well said, @thelivingroyale.

    I think the reason why Tom Newman might have bagged an Oscar nomination is probably down to his Newman Dynasty connection and the fact that 3 generations of Newman musicians have significantly molded the American film score industry maybe more than any other family.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    @Qba007 : "A fat lot of good that does the late Sir John Barry !" Probably some of David Arnold's work as well.

    Someone's work isn't somebody's else... I find it totally unfair to give Newman a nomination (or even a future prize) for such a score ; quite good but nothing exceptional. At the opposite of Barry, who did many underrated masterpieces. Same remark for the songs...

    The argue is between EoN and the people from Academy Award...wait and see.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    You might want to look up the definition of 'hallucinating'. Substitute that word with 'unbelievable' or 'outrageous' and I haven't got a problem.

    Well okay then, we're talking semantics here. ;-) Problem solved!


    Hmm. Not really. More like total misunderstanding of the word 'hallucinating'. Just don't see how it can be used in this context.
  • Posts: 5,745
    DarthDimi wrote:
    You might want to look up the definition of 'hallucinating'. Substitute that word with 'unbelievable' or 'outrageous' and I haven't got a problem.

    Well okay then, we're talking semantics here. ;-) Problem solved!


    Hmm. Not really. More like total misunderstanding of the word 'hallucinating'. Just don't see how it can be used in this context.

    You should look up the definition of grammar nazi.
  • Posts: 135
    Quantum07 wrote:
    I am completely disillusioned that some "bond fans" on this site are pissed off about SF receiving this nomination and actually want to see Newman lose.

    You're argument is that Barry's score more impressive and iconic? well duh! No one's going to debate that. Slandering the academy isn't going to change the past or make your "argument" any more intelligent. I am so happy that Newman's score get nominated because he scored a Bond film, and I am a Bond fan!

    That argument is BS. So if DAD got a best picture nominations you'd be happy? Sure it's a bad film that doesn't deserve awards but your a Bond fan and it's a Bond film!

    I want Bond to win awards I think it deserves. I think Newmans score was bland, generic, forgettable and overhyped, I think he only got nominated because he's Newman and I don't think the SF score came close to most of the Arnold scores, let alone Barry's.

    So yes I don't want him to win and if that means in your eyes I'm not a true Bond fan I don't give a toss.

    Hahaha... If DAD was nominated for Best Picture I would have pissed myself, and then cheered for it regardless. Unfortunately, the Academy decided otherwise in 2002 (Maybe they're not as moronic as people in this thread make them out to be ;) ).

    Newman's score was beautiful and perfectly matched to the film. What you see as bland and generic, I see as melancholic. Skyfall is not a typical bond film and a typical Arnold score would not have worked; Newman's score is darker, slower, and elegantly morose. Moreover, Newman's occasional fast-paced action scores get the audience's blood pumping. He manages maintain the essence of classic Bond whilst being new and innovative: for example, his two-chord punch at the opening, thrusts the audience into the action, and is IMO a healthy alternative to the traditional gunbarrel (Although I would love to see the gb return in Bond 24).

    Will Newman win the award? Probably not, because Life of Pi's score is pretty fantastic, but I'm pulling for another victory for SF anyway. I realize that I am in the overwhelming minority in regards to my opinion on the matter, so I'll leave you all alone to bitch and pout about what the academy should have done in the 60's and 70's... have fun! ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    You might want to look up the definition of 'hallucinating'. Substitute that word with 'unbelievable' or 'outrageous' and I haven't got a problem.

    Well okay then, we're talking semantics here. ;-) Problem solved!


    Hmm. Not really. More like total misunderstanding of the word 'hallucinating'. Just don't see how it can be used in this context.

    You should look up the definition of grammar nazi.

    I think you'll find a lot of people would be grossly offended at being called a nazi so I'd be careful about bandying such insults about.

    Fortunately I'm such an easy going guy I really couldn't give a toss.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Quantum07 wrote:
    If DAD was nominated for Best Picture I would have pissed myself, and then cheered for it regardless.

    So as long as the Bond name is attatched to it you'd be fine with crap winning awards.

    I'd probably like Newmans score better if it wasn't so overhyped on this site by some people (mainly the people who hate Arnold).

    It had it's moments but I felt extremely let down with it overall and I don't think it deserves an award.
    bondsum wrote:
    Well said, @thelivingroyale.

    I think the reason why Tom Newman might have bagged an Oscar nomination is probably down to his Newman Dynasty connection and the fact that 3 generations of Newman musicians have significantly molded the American film score industry maybe more than any other family.

    Yep. If it was Arnold or another composer like him (so not that well known, hasn't won many awards or anything, etc) who did the SF score (lets say it's exactly the same as Newmans), it wouldn't have gotten a nomination.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Exactly. My point is that the Oscars are a joke and name contest. Scorsese didn't win until a few years ago and the man is a genius. And when he did win it was for a subpar film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2013 Posts: 6,304
    I'm still annoyed that Nobody Does It Better didn't win. One of the best Bond songs, if not the best.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,115
    A few thoughts (which can be considered pro-Newman, anti-Newman or down the middle, depending on your point of view):

    -- The musicians branch people who came up with the nominations this year are, in theory at least, only supposed to consider work done in 2012 and aren't supposed to do a "make good" for John Barry.
    -- The musicians branch people who came up with the nominations, I suspect, are for the most part not the same members of the academy who passed over Barry's work on Goldfinger, Thunderball, and other classic Bond scores.
    -- I thought Newman's score was reasonably effective but at least somewhat inspired by the work Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard did on Nolan's Batman films. Mendes said there was some Dark Knight inspiration in Skyfall in general, so it wouldn't be shocking if that extended to the music.
    -- Did Newman being part of the Newman film music dynasty help (plus all his previous nominations) get a nomiantion for Skyfall. It couldn't have hurt. Newman's father, Alfred, did a piece of music virtually everyone has heard: "20th Century Fox Fanfare" shown with the Fox logo at the start of every Fox movie. In fact, Alfred Newman composed it when the studio was just 20th Century Pictures Inc., that's how old it is.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Quantum07 wrote:
    If DAD was nominated for Best Picture I would have pissed myself, and then cheered for it regardless.

    So as long as the Bond name is attached to it you'd be fine with crap winning awards.

    I'd probably like Newmans score better if it wasn't so overhyped on this site by some people (mainly the people who hate Arnold).

    It had it's moments but I felt extremely let down with it overall and I don't think it deserves an award.
    bondsum wrote:
    Well said, @thelivingroyale.

    I think the reason why Tom Newman might have bagged an Oscar nomination is probably down to his Newman Dynasty connection and the fact that 3 generations of Newman musicians have significantly molded the American film score industry maybe more than any other family.

    Yep. If it was Arnold or another composer like him (so not that well known, hasn't won many awards or anything, etc) who did the SF score (lets say it's exactly the same as Newmans), it wouldn't have gotten a nomination.

    That's still how I see it, and I'd say I like Newman's score quite a bit better than you do. It has some terrific moments, but I'd still take any of Barry's scores, Martin's for LALD, and 2 of Arnold's scores in TND and QOS first. I'd put SF about even with CR (better action scores for sure but the romance parts are a joke in comparison to City Of Lovers and Paris' Theme from TND) and LTK which is also strong on action and a location feel in a similar respect. I've give it 4 out of 5 stars, the same as CR and LTK but not a 4.5 or a 5 by any means.

    Will I be happy if Newman wins? Yes for the extra publicity for the film any Academy Award will generate, but otherwise with some reservation knowing how political the choice will truly have been.

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I'd put SF around the same level as the LTK score. Good but not on the same level as Barry or even Arnold on his best day.

    I agree on LALD, great score. Probably my favourite one that isn't a Barry or Arnold score.
  • The Oscars feel that if they let a series like Bond win awards like composer/director/actor/Best Picture (basically the ones that get the most attention) then they will have lowered themselves and then people would ask them to include films like it (other films with action in it as a feature) and other films in that regard as being "Oscar worthy". I don't think Skyfall is all over the place with action, but the Academy doesn't go for that kind of stuff. Though, previous films have won big that feature massive battles/fights: Think Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan for instance, so that doesn't make much sense. I don't get why the Academy has a disdain for the series, but if they are doing it to try and protect some integrity, they already lost any they would have had anyway decades ago.

    Well said. Most people who win Oscars are those who have been pushed over before, though not always.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Like I said in another post. The whole Academy is an Old Boys Club. They decide on a few people who they really like and those guys always win the awards. Skyfall's score is nowhere near as strong as say The Living Daylights. But it's Newman that gets the Oscar nomination, why? Because he scored Road To Perdition and they were all over that remember? Part of the whole Mendes-Winslet-DiCaprio-Scorcese-Scott-Bigelow mafia that has pervaded the awards for the last decade.

    That's your opinion off course, but actually quite untrue. First of all, age is no factor in inviting people to vote in a Academy Award category. Usually they are previous music composers....for the original score category. But they can be older but also younger. So to say the Academy is only an Old Boy Club is not entirely correct.

    Secondly, and I tried to explain that on many occasions, the Oscars are not prizes for 'Best Bond film'. They are cinematic prizes for 'Every film'. So in that sense, both Thomas Newman, Marvin Hamlisch and John Barry got deserved Oscar recognition. Both composers have been composing for great movies outside the Bond franchise as well.

    If you look into it in that way, then we can write down a number of facts regarding prizes won in the category 'Best Original Score':

    JOHN BARRY:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 7 times
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
    --> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
    --> 'Mary, Queen Of Scots' (1971)
    --> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
    --> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)
    --> 'Chaplin' (1992)

    Winning an Academy Award: 5 times
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
    --> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
    --> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
    --> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)

    MARVIN HAMLISCH:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 12 times
    --> 'Kotch' (Original Song, 1971)
    --> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Song, 1977)
    --> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Score, 1977)
    --> 'Same Time, Next Year' (Original Song, 1978)
    --> 'Ice Castles' (Original Song, 1978)
    --> 'Sophie's Choice' (Original Score, 1982)
    --> 'A Chorus Line' (Original Song, 1985)
    --> 'Shirley Valentine' (Original Song, 1989)
    --> 'The Mirror Has Two Faces' (Original Song, 1996)

    Winning an Academy Award: 3 times
    --> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)

    BILL CONTI:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 3 times
    --> 'Rocky' (Original Song, 1976)
    --> 'For Your Eyes Only' (Original Song, 1981)
    --> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)

    Winning an Academy Award: 1 time
    --> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)

    THOMAS NEWMAN:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 11 times
    --> 'The Shawshank Redemption' (1994)
    --> 'Little Women' (1994)
    --> 'Unstrung Heroes' (1995)
    --> 'American Beauty' (1999)
    --> 'Road To Perdition' (2002)
    --> 'Finding Nemo' (2003)
    --> 'Lemony Snicket's A Series Of Unfortunate Events' (2004)
    --> 'The Good German' (2006)
    --> 'WALL·E' (Original Song, 2008)
    --> 'WALL·E' (Original Score, 2008)
    --> 'Skyfall' (2012)

    Winning an Academy Award: N O N E


    So who's treating who unfair now? Thomas Newman got snubbed a total of 11 times. So I find it a bit arrogant if we only judge the work of the above composers solely on their Bond stuff. Now Thomas Newman gets nominated for an 11th time, and all we can say is 'How the hell was he nominated for an Oscar??'

    Reputation and better credentials outside the Bond universe are equally important. They are not judged solely on their Bond work but their entire cinematic work. Also, the Oscar is in part awarded as some kind of achievement for their overall work on music scores and/or original songs.

    Now my personal opinion. I think this really was Thomas Newman's first time he did compose a score for an action blockbuster. I think for him personally it must have been pretty tricky to start working on such a franchise, as he usually composed slow-tempo dramatic scores for drama films ('American Beauty' his most famous example). It takes a lot of creativity, ingenuity and inspiration to come up with his own original take on a action blockbuster, and especially on a Bond score.

    And I think he pulled it off. He did something extraordinary. In my opinion it is my favourite score for a Bond film ever since John Barry did 'The Living Daylights'. The reason John Barry never got nominated for a Bond score? Really, for Barry himself, and he admitted it many times, working on a Bond film was a welcome formularic period....a fun period! And allthough his Bond scores still sound fantastic -I love them- I think he was way more inspiring ánd original in his scores for 'Dances With Wolves' and 'Out Of Africa'.

    So I don't understand all the anger surrounding Thomas Newman's Oscar nomination for 'Skyfall'. In a way it also shows us that 'Skyfall' is not only taken serious as a Bond film, but also as a great cinematic achievement apart from being Bond.

    I have heard the music score from 'Life Of Pi', composed by Michael Danna. I love it, it won the Golden Globe and it is considered a frontrunner in winning the Oscar. Alexandre Desplat's score for 'Argo' could win too. But I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Newman actually wins the Oscar for 'Best Original Score' after 10 missed wins.
    Because no one else commented on this post, I will be the first to say that this is very clear and level headed (not to mention sensical) answer to the question of this thread. Well done, @Gustav_Graves.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SJK91 wrote:
    Like I said in another post. The whole Academy is an Old Boys Club. They decide on a few people who they really like and those guys always win the awards. Skyfall's score is nowhere near as strong as say The Living Daylights. But it's Newman that gets the Oscar nomination, why? Because he scored Road To Perdition and they were all over that remember? Part of the whole Mendes-Winslet-DiCaprio-Scorcese-Scott-Bigelow mafia that has pervaded the awards for the last decade.

    That's your opinion off course, but actually quite untrue. First of all, age is no factor in inviting people to vote in a Academy Award category. Usually they are previous music composers....for the original score category. But they can be older but also younger. So to say the Academy is only an Old Boy Club is not entirely correct.

    Secondly, and I tried to explain that on many occasions, the Oscars are not prizes for 'Best Bond film'. They are cinematic prizes for 'Every film'. So in that sense, both Thomas Newman, Marvin Hamlisch and John Barry got deserved Oscar recognition. Both composers have been composing for great movies outside the Bond franchise as well.

    If you look into it in that way, then we can write down a number of facts regarding prizes won in the category 'Best Original Score':

    JOHN BARRY:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 7 times
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
    --> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
    --> 'Mary, Queen Of Scots' (1971)
    --> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
    --> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)
    --> 'Chaplin' (1992)

    Winning an Academy Award: 5 times
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
    --> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
    --> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
    --> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
    --> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)

    MARVIN HAMLISCH:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 12 times
    --> 'Kotch' (Original Song, 1971)
    --> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Song, 1977)
    --> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Score, 1977)
    --> 'Same Time, Next Year' (Original Song, 1978)
    --> 'Ice Castles' (Original Song, 1978)
    --> 'Sophie's Choice' (Original Score, 1982)
    --> 'A Chorus Line' (Original Song, 1985)
    --> 'Shirley Valentine' (Original Song, 1989)
    --> 'The Mirror Has Two Faces' (Original Song, 1996)

    Winning an Academy Award: 3 times
    --> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
    --> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)

    BILL CONTI:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 3 times
    --> 'Rocky' (Original Song, 1976)
    --> 'For Your Eyes Only' (Original Song, 1981)
    --> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)

    Winning an Academy Award: 1 time
    --> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)

    THOMAS NEWMAN:
    Nominated for Academy Award: 11 times
    --> 'The Shawshank Redemption' (1994)
    --> 'Little Women' (1994)
    --> 'Unstrung Heroes' (1995)
    --> 'American Beauty' (1999)
    --> 'Road To Perdition' (2002)
    --> 'Finding Nemo' (2003)
    --> 'Lemony Snicket's A Series Of Unfortunate Events' (2004)
    --> 'The Good German' (2006)
    --> 'WALL·E' (Original Song, 2008)
    --> 'WALL·E' (Original Score, 2008)
    --> 'Skyfall' (2012)

    Winning an Academy Award: N O N E


    So who's treating who unfair now? Thomas Newman got snubbed a total of 11 times. So I find it a bit arrogant if we only judge the work of the above composers solely on their Bond stuff. Now Thomas Newman gets nominated for an 11th time, and all we can say is 'How the hell was he nominated for an Oscar??'

    Reputation and better credentials outside the Bond universe are equally important. They are not judged solely on their Bond work but their entire cinematic work. Also, the Oscar is in part awarded as some kind of achievement for their overall work on music scores and/or original songs.

    Now my personal opinion. I think this really was Thomas Newman's first time he did compose a score for an action blockbuster. I think for him personally it must have been pretty tricky to start working on such a franchise, as he usually composed slow-tempo dramatic scores for drama films ('American Beauty' his most famous example). It takes a lot of creativity, ingenuity and inspiration to come up with his own original take on a action blockbuster, and especially on a Bond score.

    And I think he pulled it off. He did something extraordinary. In my opinion it is my favourite score for a Bond film ever since John Barry did 'The Living Daylights'. The reason John Barry never got nominated for a Bond score? Really, for Barry himself, and he admitted it many times, working on a Bond film was a welcome formularic period....a fun period! And allthough his Bond scores still sound fantastic -I love them- I think he was way more inspiring ánd original in his scores for 'Dances With Wolves' and 'Out Of Africa'.

    So I don't understand all the anger surrounding Thomas Newman's Oscar nomination for 'Skyfall'. In a way it also shows us that 'Skyfall' is not only taken serious as a Bond film, but also as a great cinematic achievement apart from being Bond.

    I have heard the music score from 'Life Of Pi', composed by Michael Danna. I love it, it won the Golden Globe and it is considered a frontrunner in winning the Oscar. Alexandre Desplat's score for 'Argo' could win too. But I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Newman actually wins the Oscar for 'Best Original Score' after 10 missed wins.
    Because no one else commented on this post, I will be the first to say that this is very clear and level headed (not to mention sensical) answer to the question of this thread. Well done, @Gustav_Graves.

    I also missed this. I didnt realise how many noms Newman actually had. Surely the oscar is in the bag isnt it? The Oscars love nothing better than rewarding someone who has lost out many times before. Who cares if its not his best work or its not as good as Barry or Arnold. He will win because people will think hes paid his dues with so many failures.
    Cant really see anyone spoiling Adeles party either so thats 2 in the bag in my book. Deakins and the sound guys also have a great shout. Could SF really bring home the bacon in every category its nominated?
Sign In or Register to comment.