The Science - Science Fiction thread

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2017 Posts: 24,251
    Gravitational waves: compelling evidence was found today! (2016-02-11)

    4_gravitational_waves.jpg

    A century ago, Albert Einstein revolutionised the way we think about the universe. He talked about spacetime, about clocks ticking slower when moving faster while also being compressed and growing heavier at the same time. Two hundred years since Newton, Einstein suggested that the force of gravity, in the classical sense, doesn't exist. Rather, what keeps the Earth revolving around the Sun is a curvature in the fabric of spacetime, a mere result of the Sun just being there.

    Those who may have felt compelled to ridicule Einstein had little chance of doing so, as most of Einstein's ideas were picked up by others very fast and deployed in further scientific research. While theoretical and practical successes and advances in the latter field piled up rapidly, technology also benefited from Einstein's discoveries. Nowadays, using satellite technology, we can locate a person anywhere on Earth with incredible accuracy and precision. We can augment the kinetic energy of particles in particle accelerators, not just by speeding them up as such, but by allowing them to gain weight as a direct consequence of them speeding up. The wealth of knowledge gathered from particle acceleration experiments is utterly stunning. But most of all, we can look at the stars and pick up information that had previously been hidden from us, unable as we were to interpret "strange" things like gravitational lensing. Had it not been for Einstein, none of this would have been true.

    Only a scientific ignoramus or a joker would at this point dare question Einstein's theory of relativity and its implications. (Just to get an important point out of the way, Einstein proposed other ideas as well and some, like the theory-of-everything and his aversion to quantum physical indeterminism, were much less fruitful. But the theory of relativity is an unmitigated success.) Though honest scientists are careful to say that something is proven - one of the attractive characteristics of science is that the road to proof is more exciting than the proof itself - we can safely assume that Einstein's theory of relativity shall never be disproved. One key element of the theory, however, had until recently been a point of contention in some circles. Gravitational waves.

    Simply put, the fabric of space can be rippled by accelerating objects like planets circling stars or binary stars circling each other, but also by black holes and of course phenomenal cosmic events like, well, the big bang itself. These ripples, designated 'gravitational waves', spread out and unlike waves in a pond that swiftly die, these gravitational waves continue to spread out. The "shape" of the waving itself reveals a great deal about the object or event that caused it. Differently put, an accelerating object or event leaves a fingerprint behind in the ripples it creates.

    But how do we pick up these waves? Not only did Einstein propose them, he also gave us the tools to discover them: the absolute speed of light. Say you keep a laser beam bouncing between two objects. The beam should always require the same amount of time to get from A to B and back again. But if gravitational waves "hit" Earth and push the objects apart for a brief moment, the amount of time the beam needs to rock back and forth between A and B is altered. By measuring this alteration, not only can we detect the presence of a wave, we can determine a great deal about it; we can "read" the fingerprint of the cosmic event that sent it here.

    So what took us so long? Simple. The measurements of the alterations in the time it takes for light to bounce between two objects need to be incredibly sensitive and precise in order to make any of this work. Data is useless unless it was collected with the utmost precision. So the reason we had to wait so long to detect gravitational waves is that we required sufficiently sensitive tools and only recently were those tools actually built. One piece of technology always has to wait for another one to be developed first.

    What's interesting is that scientists hoped to detect a glimmer somewhere in the next two weeks but surprisingly enough, they detected quite a lot within the first few hours! Cosmic exhibitionism: it's as if the waves were eager to be spotted by us.

    Fine. It probably cost a lot of money to get a bunch of science freaks exhilarated. But how can any of this be useful? First of all, like most other scientific discoveries this may open the path to so much more but of course the most obvious benefiters are astronomers and cosmologists. Not only is this one of the last key elements of Einstein's theory of relativity that had yet to be experimentally verified, it furthermore offers a clear window to the universe like nothing else before it. Specifically the big bang is now even more within reach than ever. Previously, we tried to look into the universe's past using light, but light cannot take us beyond the point of 379 000 years since the big bang. Before that time, the universe was too hot to hold neutral atoms; it was a gas of electrically charged particles and such particles interact with photons (particles of light) but don't allow them to escape. Information about the universe when it was younger than 379 000 years had thus been completely hidden from us, until now. Gravitational waves, originating during and immediately after the big bang, may luckily still be picked up and when identified as such, may tell us whether our big bang models are correct.

    Hopefully this can do more than that. In our ever continuing battle against the embarrassing phenomenon of Creationism, gravitational waves may help us to turn a few lost souls to the virtue of rational thinking. Those creationists who are educated, may actually understand what all of this means and may finally see that a literal interpretation of the Bible is hopelessly insane. Those who aren't educated may at least understand, or so I hope, that this is yet another confirmation of the validity of all those scientific models we also use to explain the origin of the universe. So perhaps they will understand that if the bricks and mortar are 'proven', the house that was built with them has a good chance of being true as well...

    A good day for science. Let's party, ladies and gentlemen.

    gravitational_waves.png
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Black holes-what a silly idea.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    @Thunderfinger, that's not what you said when we went location scouting for our film "Aliens vs Predator vs Shaft" in Missouri.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    When they picked you as director, that all changed.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,342
    Black holes-what a silly idea.

    "If you took Ross Kemp and all his programmes and fitted them into a black hole, I'd shake your f
    g hand!" - Paul Calf
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If you took the Black Hole theories and fitted them into a science fiction movie, I would F...k your shaking hand.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    Well, @Thunderfinger, there is the movie called "The Black Hole" with music by John Barry.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited February 2016 Posts: 15,723
    If you replace Matthew McConaghey in 'Interstellar' with Timothy Dalton,
    The black hole at the end of the movie would be unable to swallow Cooper.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Well, @Thunderfinger, there is the movie called "The Black Hole" with music by John Barry.

    John Barry makes me a believer.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    I received a note this morning from a parent of a 15 year old student of mine. “Dear sir, (…) came home yesterday with stories about his physics lessons which quite frankly upset my husband and myself. The reason we sent (…) to a Catholic school, is because we believe in the virtues of a Christian upbringing, at home and in school. Yet it’s come to our attention that your physics lessons include anti-creationism propaganda, which we feel has no place in a Catholic school. Please be advised that we shall have to inform the principal of this. Sincerely, …” [Translated from Dutch]

    First of all, Catholic schools in Belgium are fairly liberal these days. The “Catholic” label is a dry remnant of the old days, when priests and nuns were still the chief instructors and educators in our schools. But the mission statements of our Catholic schools nowadays pertain more to a secular form of ethics than to the Christian values of old. Religion is taught in our schools as a phenomenon which happens to exist in our society rather than as the absolute basis of a virtuous life. For this reason, amongst others, our Christian schools welcome people of all persuasions, including Jews, Muslims, agnostics and atheists. Even teachers, at least in my school, aren’t “screened” anymore before they are hired. I have (free-spirited) Muslim colleagues, Christian colleagues, “new-age crystal shop” colleagues, gay colleagues, … and most of them are great people whom I’m proud to call my friends. So I’m confident, to say the least, that my principal won’t reprimand me on the basis of the note I quoted above.

    Secondly, Catholics these days are quite receptive to evolutionary and cosmological teachings. Creationism, sadly, is still much more of an issue in other fractions of Christianity. That the parents of young (…) nurture a deep confidence in Catholic schools as an example of pure creationist advertising, is a sign of ignorance and naivety in itself.

    Furthermore, my so-called “anti-creationism” propaganda isn’t even that, technically speaking. While I often tend to go pretty “hardcore” in my posts on this forum, I try not to shock too many people too often in class. ;-) I know where to draw the line, even if I sometimes secretly crave a chance to go completely Dawkings or Krauss on my sweet, poor pupils. So let me explain what the parent was talking about in the note.
    In my physics or chemistry classes I try to accomplish two things besides the obvious textbook science: A) that my students learn to think for themselves and never accept anything from dogma or “higher” authority or blind faith, and B) that they understand that admitting we were wrong isn’t a sign of weakness in science, but in fact the most exciting thing a scientist can do. Naturally, when some of the more “troublesome” scientific hypotheses and theories are addressed, which in my case almost always involves the age and origin of our universe, it’s practically unavoidable to refer to the Bible and to how terrifying it is that so many people still take Genesis as the literal truth, against all scientific evidence. But even though my posts on this forum are often harsh and borderline insulting, I refrain from rhetoric crudeness and insolence in front of an under-aged audience, primarily because I want to demonstrate to them that as a scientist, I feel confident enough to fight creationism in an understated, rational and well-argued fashion without having to resort to arrogance, impudence or primitive anger and verbal intensity. (Let’s just say that this forum serves as an informal chatter space where my darker side is much less concerned with things being safe-for-work. ;-))

    In truth, I fail to see how in stimulating my pupils to always be critical, to always apply common sense and rational thinking when addressing the major cosmic mysteries which both science and religion, each in their own way, labor hard to answer, I insult them, their faith – if any – and the entire system of Catholic schooling in Belgium. It’s no secret that I wish we could live in a world devoid of creationism. I neither lie about that nor avoid the subject in class, but I calmly explain my reasons and allow kids who see things in a different way to state their counterarguments – which, by the way, is usually enough to make them see the fallacies in their own “reasoning”.

    If I’m not allowed any of this, I can’t be what I’m so proud of being: a science teacher with a clear mission and not just someone who in an ultra-disciplined yet uninspiring fashion funnels boring knowledge into his barely interested students. Even more so, the thought that I’d have to hold back for the sake of not upsetting creationist parents who think that Catholic schools should harbor a blind faith in the contents of the Bible, is petrifying if nothing else. Actually, it is something else; it’s insulting. And by sharing this little frustration with you lot, I’ve already gotten over it. So thank you and good night. :-)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    @Darth you're a Knight in shining armour for science, a commander fighting for a good cause. And sometimes you meet dark pockets of resistance that have failed to understand their times, like the last japanese soldier surrendering in the 1970ties.

    You'll find it a fun fact that my small office is right inbetween the offices of the SGP party at Parlement. Yes, those orthodox protestants that still manage to get two seats in parlement every election. But even amongst them (won't name names, he'd lose his job) doubt is spreading about the literal acceptation of the bible.
  • Posts: 15,226
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Well, @Thunderfinger, there is the movie called "The Black Hole" with music by John Barry.

    I remember that one. A rewritten 20, 000 Leagues Under The Sea in space with bits of 2001: A Space Odyssey and Star Wars. Very uneven, both in quality and tone. But I enjoyed it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I remember I really wanted to see that film when it came out, and 37 years later I still haven t .
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I believe anything that occurs/exists in the Star Trek Universe.
    I have loads of science books about Star Trek.
    I have highly detailed blueprints of the Deep Space Nine station.
    Anything outside Star Trek is a lie.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I believe anything that occurs/exists in the Star Trek Universe.
    I have loads of science books about Star Trek.
    I have highly detailed blueprints of the Deep Space Nine station.
    Anything outside Star Trek is a lie.

    Did you know that Gene Roddenberry and L. Ron Hubbard were best friends at one point, but became enemies after Hubbard started the Dianetics movement and Roddenberry created Star Trek?

    It is like the Catholics and Protestants or the Sunny and Shite.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    Oh dear... :-S

    This man is out-of-his-mind!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=gpKtZcIIS0Q
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Oh dear... :-S

    This man is out-of-his-mind!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=gpKtZcIIS0Q

    Cracking stuff. Love how he uses cars built in different countries to prove evolution couldn't happen. Forgets they all evolved from the basic design for a car when it was originally invented.

    Love this as well - '^ Wanker'
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    This is great class room stuff!

    "See? I asked two scientists [a vet and a doctor] on stage [in a room full of Creationists anyway], shove a mike under their mouths and ask if they are Creationists or not [which is then supposed to prove that Creationism is correct?]"

    The car analogy got me rolling on the floor. Also, the meteor didn't hit us? So... uh... someone gently put it in the Yucatan?

  • Posts: 15,226
    Oh the stupid car or airplane analogy! Clear misunderstanding of how evolution works.

    Reminds me of the eye argument: "Only God could have created something as perfect as the eye". Said by someone with glasses, it is even funnier. They should worship their ophthalmologist.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    At least he prays the lord for wisdom. Not that that helps but at least he's got the intention to become wise. Wonder how he looks back on this video if he ever succeeds. The highschool dropout. (he says so himself!).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Is there a mathematical definition of infinity?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    Sure there is but I can't type the symbols here. Basically you can define infinity as a number which is always larger than any real number conceivable.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    It's all there:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity

    non-mathematical:

    I've Always one more then you!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Does that make any sense?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Just a quick question: this thread is called the 'Science and Science Fiction thread'.

    Science fiction; does that mean we can discuss religion here? Or would that be just straight 'fiction'?

    Or more accurately 'bullshit'.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Just a quick question: this thread is called the 'Science and Science Fiction thread'.

    Science fiction; does that mean we can discuss religion here? Or would that be just straight 'fiction'?

    Or more accurately 'bullshit'.

    If you look down the pages you'll see we've been discussing the fiction of religion a great deal, especially when it tries to compete with science. I think it's been called 'bullshit'before too.. ;-)
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    edited July 2016 Posts: 221
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Sure there is but I can't type the symbols here. Basically you can define infinity as a number which is always larger than any real number conceivable.

    I have found the infinite symbol now, I was wrong; I did look at my key board for the sign and the closest one I did find was the one I wrote, Dart, it was not to annoy You.
    Then I realized the actual reason on why it is not there on my Keyboard..!

    Hackers knows the reason to that weakness.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Sure there is but I can't type the symbols here. Basically you can define infinity as a number which is always larger than any real number conceivable.

    I have found the infinite symbol now, I was wrong; I did look at my key board for the sign and the closest one I did find was the one I wrote, Dart, it was not to annoy You.
    Then I realized the actual reason on why it is not there on my Keyboard..!

    Hackers knows the reason to that weakness.

    But One can construct another similar symbol; Using ~ and 8 and ~(~8~); the eight symbolise the infinity math and science symbol reinforced by the other symbols.
    the 'eight' laying sideways is the corresponding actual infinity symbol, but does not interfere with the programming sequence.

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