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The most ineffective henchman in a Bond film!

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    And technically since none have killed Bond they all were ineffective lol.

    The job of henchman is not just to kill Bond and nothing more.

    The job is to hench in general and someone like Oddjob is not ineffective in this regard making short work of Jill, Tilly, Mr Solo and Kisch.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Hinx cannot keep up with Bond driving through an almost empty Rome, then gets his car smashed up in the Alps with him thrown through the front window and then get thrown out of a train after a fairly poor fight in an empty train. His entrance was a promise and for the rest he was poorly used.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @SaintMark, but he does manage to kill Guerra, keep up with Bond during the Rome chase, and he tracks down Bond and Swann on two separate occasions. The least effective henchmen he is not, but he certainly doesn't get the job done, either.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think his intro was truly menacing. Such promise.

    However I completely agree that they blew it after that, with the dull car chase (what a dramatic change in tone from the SPECTRE meeting). They end up looking at each other suggestively as Hinx pulls up while Bond is on the phone - why didn't he just ram Bond's car instead of giving him a glance?

    I also agree about Austria. Bond could have put a bullet in him when he was unconscious (and perhaps should have, knowing what he was capable of).
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    And technically since none have killed Bond they all were ineffective lol.

    The job of henchman is not just to kill Bond and nothing more.

    The job is to hench in general and someone like Oddjob is not ineffective in this regard making short work of Jill, Tilly, Mr Solo and Kisch.

    Lighten up.
  • Problem_EliminatorProblem_Eliminator Ojai, CA
    Posts: 613
    I think a better question is who is the most effective henchman ?
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Problem_Eliminator wrote: »
    I think a better question is who is the most effective henchman ?

    No doubt for me- Red Grant

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    Problem_Eliminator wrote: »
    I think a better question is who is the most effective henchman ?

    No doubt for me- Red Grant

    Oh yes! Both skilled and committed.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Elvis is a standout in this department no doubt. Gabor in TWINE would also be a contender. From the early films what exactly do Vargas and Janni do? Other than look creepy and well fairly obvious henchmen.
    I'll also add Hans from YOLT. Other than looking after a key for Blofeld, having a fight with Bond and dropping into a piranha tank after an obvious move from Bond, he didn't really do anything. Almost level with Elvis incompetence.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Benny wrote: »
    Elvis is a standout in this department no doubt. Gabor in TWINE would also be a contender. From the early films what exactly do Vargas and Janni do? Other than look creepy and well fairly obvious henchmen.
    I'll also add Hans from YOLT. Other than looking after a key for Blofeld, having a fight with Bond and dropping into a piranha tank after an obvious move from Bond, he didn't really do anything. Almost level with Elvis incompetence.

    Hans is bland, not ineffective. Bond beats him, but Hans gave it his all. He is a poor man's Grant, not nearly as brilliant, a complete wallpaper, but he's still remotely effective as a bodyguard.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2016 Posts: 40,976
    The only accomplishments I can think of that Vargas and Janni manage to pull off are kidnapping Paula and being some of the only men ever to hit James Bond with a bullet.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think Largo himself asks the question in TB. "What do you do Vargas?"
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think Largo himself asks the question in TB. "What do you do Vargas?"

    I find that really creepy. Vargas may not have done much, but as a child I was always scared of him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think Largo himself asks the question in TB. "What do you do Vargas?"

    I think that isn't as much questioning his abilities as it is his passions, since the line is prefaced with something to the effect of how he doesn't smoke or drink or make love.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think Largo himself asks the question in TB. "What do you do Vargas?"

    I think that isn't as much questioning his abilities as it is his passions, since the line is prefaced with something to the effect of how he doesn't smoke or drink or make love.
    Yes, I was kidding. The line just came to mind. I should have used one of those smiley/winky emoticon things at the end.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think Largo himself asks the question in TB. "What do you do Vargas?"

    I think that isn't as much questioning his abilities as it is his passions, since the line is prefaced with something to the effect of how he doesn't smoke or drink or make love.
    Yes, I was kidding. The line just came to mind. I should have used one of those smiley/winky emoticon things at the end.

    My track record for detecting online sarcasm is pretty poor.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited March 2016 Posts: 4,116
    How are we judging the ineffectiveness? In terms of character action ...what the character does it tried to do ...or on how well the character was written? Hinx for example had promise but was under written. Had he been a vocal gentleman brute that may have been fun.

    Elvis accomplished exactly how he was written. He was written as an ineffective wannabe henchman (remember him trying to be tough on the dock? That was well written and well acted.)


    So how are we judging?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    [
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    How are we judging the ineffectiveness? In terms of character action ...what the character does it tried to do ...or on how well the character was written? Hinx for example had promise but was under written. Had he been a vocal gentleman brute that may have been fun.

    Elvis accomplished exactly how he was written. He was written as an ineffective wannabe henchman (remember him trying to be tough on the dock? That was well written and well acted.)


    So how are we judging?

    Good point, Elvis did in QOS what he had to do I suppose.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    [
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    How are we judging the ineffectiveness? In terms of character action ...what the character does it tried to do ...or on how well the character was written? Hinx for example had promise but was under written. Had he been a vocal gentleman brute that may have been fun.

    Elvis accomplished exactly how he was written. He was written as an ineffective wannabe henchman (remember him trying to be tough on the dock? That was well written and well acted.)


    So how are we judging?

    Good point, Elvis did in QOS what he had to do I suppose.

    Thanks :)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Well I guess we are judging that if you are given the title 'henchman' how well do you err hench?

    Elvis is so ineffectual perhaps he is not even worthy of the title henchman? Greene's PA might sum up his job description more accurately.

    So perhaps first of all we need to define the qualities that we expect of a henchman?

    Although this is all getting a bit deep isn't it? Why not just agree that Elvis is an absolute joke and save ourselves the effort of debating it?
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    A joke written as a joke.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I don't think you can claim Elvis gets off because he is written as a joke.

    We have to judge characters on their merits as if we don't know it's a film don't we?

    Saying Elvis is shockingly poorly written as a henchman is a different debate to saying he is a poor henchman isn't it?

    In one we are laying the blame at the scriptwriters door for not developing the character and in the second we are saying Elvis is shit at what he does.

    The fact is both are true but Elvis as judged on his actions in the film is still crap because he literally does nothing on his own initiative whereas the likes of Oddjob and Jaws go off and hunt people down and kill them on their own.

    The only possible defence Elvis has to offer is that he's not an actual henchman but just Greene's gofer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Greene forces him to reluctantly stand watch for Bond, gun in hand, in the hotel while he runs for his life. Sadly, this results in Elvis getting his pants blown off a bit later as one of the power sources explodes (one of the more humiliating deaths in the series).

    https://giphy.com/gifs/14fcsP5Ek5O6BO/html5
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Can we count Tashman from The Man With The Golden Gun? Dude gets kicked in face by Bond and that's about it!
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    I don't think you can claim Elvis gets off because he is written as a joke.

    We have to judge characters on their merits as if we don't know it's a film don't we?

    Saying Elvis is shockingly poorly written as a henchman is a different debate to saying he is a poor henchman isn't it?

    In one we are laying the blame at the scriptwriters door for not developing the character and in the second we are saying Elvis is shit at what he does.

    The fact is both are true but Elvis as judged on his actions in the film is still crap because he literally does nothing on his own initiative whereas the likes of Oddjob and Jaws go off and hunt people down and kill them on their own.

    The only possible defence Elvis has to offer is that he's not an actual henchman but just Greene's gofer.

    Gets off what? Being an lethal henchman? You answered your own retort of my claim that Elvis gets off. He is what he is. Written and portrayed.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    I don't think you can claim Elvis gets off because he is written as a joke.

    We have to judge characters on their merits as if we don't know it's a film don't we?

    Saying Elvis is shockingly poorly written as a henchman is a different debate to saying he is a poor henchman isn't it?

    In one we are laying the blame at the scriptwriters door for not developing the character and in the second we are saying Elvis is shit at what he does.

    The fact is both are true but Elvis as judged on his actions in the film is still crap because he literally does nothing on his own initiative whereas the likes of Oddjob and Jaws go off and hunt people down and kill them on their own.

    The only possible defence Elvis has to offer is that he's not an actual henchman but just Greene's gofer.

    Gets off what? Being an lethal henchman? You answered your own retort of my claim that Elvis gets off. He is what he is. Written and portrayed.

    Elvis was written pretty lazily, I mean did he do anything?

    Even other comical henchmen i.e. Nick Nack are more useful, Nick Nack would have killed Bond at Hai Fat's had Fat and his 'school' not been so incompetent themselves.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    I don't think you can claim Elvis gets off because he is written as a joke.

    We have to judge characters on their merits as if we don't know it's a film don't we?

    Saying Elvis is shockingly poorly written as a henchman is a different debate to saying he is a poor henchman isn't it?

    In one we are laying the blame at the scriptwriters door for not developing the character and in the second we are saying Elvis is shit at what he does.

    The fact is both are true but Elvis as judged on his actions in the film is still crap because he literally does nothing on his own initiative whereas the likes of Oddjob and Jaws go off and hunt people down and kill them on their own.

    The only possible defence Elvis has to offer is that he's not an actual henchman but just Greene's gofer.

    Gets off what? Being an lethal henchman? You answered your own retort of my claim that Elvis gets off. He is what he is. Written and portrayed.

    Elvis was written pretty lazily, I mean did he do anything?

    Even other comical henchmen i.e. Nick Nack are more useful, Nick Nack would have killed Bond at Hai Fat's had Fat and his 'school' not been so incompetent themselves.

    It also depends on the villain or on the other henchmen / henchwomen in a respective film. The problem that QoS has is that the main villain is also neither strong nor memorable, so he actually requires a strong or memorable henchman. And Elvis cannot deliver. It is just a big difference whether you have two other henchmen or a strong villain or if this is not the case.

    The character is also completely wasted. They could have made a creapy character out of him, a silent killer in the tradition of Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd. Those who are not physically strong but kill with poison or bombs. Like in DAF they could have made us see him killing a few people or at least make us suggest that he is doing it. That is the reason why DAF really benefits from its henchmen whereas QoS suffers due to it.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    For me Elivs is literally the worst character in the whole series. He embodies everything i hate about QoS and Forsters misguided attempt at trying to be different and artsy. He has no point to even exist in that movie, you could have cut all his scenes from the movie and it would have not made even the slightest difference to the plot. So yeah, he is for me the most ineffective henchman, if you can even consider him that.
    Every other ineffective henchman at least had the benefit of looking like one, but Elvis didn't even got that right.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    I think Elvis exists as the weird looking lackey of Greene. He is inept yes, but that is the whole point. I do agree though that QOS needed a stronger henchman to counterbalance.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Elvis is also the most forgettable one by far. I didn't even remember him after the first one or two watches, and I tend to pride myself on memory. He just offers nothing to the film.
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