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Could Cavill have convinced you as 007 in CR and QoS ?

chuck007chuck007
edited April 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 172
Does anyone think that ,having been given the opportunity to carry on as Bond,Cavill would have been able to perform 007 to the level of Daniel Craig in CR and QoS ? or maybe better than Craig perhaps?

Considering he was the front runner back than in 2005 and also Campbell first choice to become rookie Bond, would his interpretation would like Brosnan or gritty as Dalton?

and just asking do you think he still has a chance after being cast as Superman?
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Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    I'm not sure he was the front runner back in '05 - hardly more than 'a' front runner for a short while and only in a dubious collection of tabloids and whatnot. I followed the list of people rather closely in those days and I only vaguely remember him being considered seriously. The kid was 22...

    Also, I find it hard to speculate on whether he would have been a gritty Bond or not and so forth. I can't tell but even then, 22 or 23 would have been far too young. In any case, Cavill may or may not be re-considered one day but Craig is still 'ahsum' enough right now so any speculation on a replacement is a waste of time.

    The Superman issue you bring up is a good one. It's possible that after such a major role he may forever forget about Bond. Yet, again, I feel there's no way we can tell. Should this Superman thing work out fine for him, he might lose interest in Bond altogether. Also, it might make him too big a star and earn him some typecasting on the side, and neither of that is good if you want to be Bond. On the other hand, should this Superman thing fail, it might also weaken his chances for Bond. But once more, I'm afraid speculating on the subject is useless and by all means he is too young - way too young.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited April 2011 Posts: 4,813
    If he played Superman once or twice, then came back to Bond years later- I'm thinking 10.... then I see no prob at all.

    Dalton was close in 1969- only to come back in 1987! That worked out wonderfully! Of course, Dalton didn't play Superman too.... (now there's a picture)
  • chuck007chuck007
    Posts: 172
    Quoting DarthDimi: I'm not sure he was the front runner back in '05 - hardly more than 'a' front runner for a short while and only in a dubious collection of tabloids and whatnot. I followed the list of people rather closely in those days and I only vaguely remember him being considered seriously. The kid was 22...
    yes for Martin Campbell he was the only one, base on this interview http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20070418142549/http://www.latinoreview.com/films_2005/sonypictures/zorro2/mc-interview.html

    i think he has the looks and capabilities, but like you said, he was too young...and too soon to predict what will happen, i just want to know this fans sites opinion, in other sites (DCIB) Cavill is considered a savior to them, and they can't wait Cavill to replace Craig soon...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    Quoting chuck007: in other sites (DCIB) Cavill is considered a savior to them, and they can't wait Cavill to replace Craig soon...
    They can play the waiting game for many more years to come. ;;)

    image
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    No. Cavill is way too young, at least was in 2002. He still looked like a teenager. I'm still not convinced now ;)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    No, I don't think he could have. Of course who knows what will become of Man Of Stell, it could be another one-off dud.

    What would the public think of a failed Superman actor playing Bond, maybe only six to eight years later. After Craig leaves EON will try their hardest to get the series to work once more without him and hiring Cavill may not be the answer.
  • Gaz1961Gaz1961
    Posts: 117
    I think Cavill would be a very popular Bond, at least with the ladies.
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting Gaz1961: I think Cavill would be a very popular Bond, at least with the ladies.
    I think us men should give up on guessing what will be popular with the ladies. Remember when everyone thought Craig was ugly and would be unpopular with the women? It turns out he is the most popular Bond with women yet!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2011 Posts: 13,999
    The advantage with Cavill, is that he would be convincing as a rookie, though he may have needed a number of films for his Bond to mature. They've botched the rookie idea once, if they wait to long to cast Cavill, they'll botch it again. Either cast someone in their mid/late 20's, or forget the idea. But then rebooting twice, and so close, would be just silly.
    Quoting Master_Dahark: Dalton was close in 1969- only to come back in 1987! That worked out
    wonderfully! Of course, Dalton didn't play Superman too.... (now there's a
    picture)
    I see Dalton as more suited to The Shadow. B-)
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: The advantage with Cavill, is that he would be convincing as a rookie, though he may have needed a number of films for his Bond to mature. They've botched the rookie idea once, if they wait to long to cast Cavill, they'll botch it again. Either cast someone in their mid/late 20's, or forget the idea. But then rebooting twice, and so close, would be just silly.


    The thing is Bond was not a rookie in CR, he was just new as a 00. You have to have experience behind you be become a 00.


    Quoting MajorDSmythe: I see Dalton as more suited to The Shadow. B-)
    I thought the exact same thing when the Alec Baldwin film came out in 94!
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    Besides being too young, he doesn't look like a killer to me. He would def need to bulk up too. Yes i realize he is in good shape now but I imagine bond being bigger.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Quoting jaguar007: The thing is Bond was not a rookie in CR, he was just new as a 00. You have to have experience behind you be become a 00.
    In that case 1) Too old is too old, and a 38 years old as a new 00 is seriously pushing the enveloppe. And 2) I don't buy one bit that he would still have this erratic behaviour after 10+ years of intensive training. If you look at Bond's dossier for CR, there's no way this childissh behaviour wouldn't have been drilled out of him years ago. And honestly, it doesn't suit Craig's world-weariness and maturity to act like a 3 years old.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Quoting jaguar007: The thing is Bond was not a rookie in CR, he was just new as a 00. You have to
    have experience behind you be become a 00.


    But then that brings up another problem. The way Bond acts in CR/QOS, there's no way in hell he'd make it through the SAS. They'd either drum that out of Bond, or kick him out.
    Quoting jaguar007: I thought the exact same thing when the Alec Baldwin film came out in 94!
    I love the '94 Shadow. I think what made Dalton a perfect Bond, would've made him a perfect Shadow.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: The way Bond acts in CR/QOS, there's no way in hell he'd make it through the SAS. They'd either drum that out of Bond, or kick him out.
    You hit the nail on the head. Craig Bond is mentally challenged and/or retarded, and on top of that the British secret service are amazingly laxist to allow people with such childish behaviour to be granted a licence to kill.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    Quoting DaltonCraig007: Craig Bond is mentally challenged and/or retarded, and on top of that the
    British secret service are amazingly laxist to allow people with such childish
    behaviour to be granted a licence to kill.
    I think there are several elements in Bond films that make them slightly unbelievable. I wouldn't worry too much about disecting Bond's character to look for discrepencies. ;-)
  • chuck007chuck007
    Posts: 172
    Quoting DaltonCraig007: You hit the nail on the head. Craig Bond is mentally challenged and/or retarded, and on top of that the British secret service are amazingly laxist to allow people with such childish behaviour to be granted a licence to kill.

    So did Dalton ;-)
    here a quotation from Stephen Jay Rubin writes in The Complete James Bond Movie Encyclopaedia (1995):
    Unlike Moore, who always seems to be in command, Dalton's Bond sometimes looks like a candidate for the psychiatrist's couch — a burned-out killer who may have just enough energy left for one final mission. That was Fleming's Bond — a man who drank to diminish the poison in his system, the poison of a violent world with impossible demands.... [H]is is the suffering Bond.


    Dalton's Bond sometimes looks like a candidate for the psychiatrist's couch — a burned-out killer who may have just enough energy left for one final mission.


    :-D
  • MoonrakerMoonraker
    Posts: 60
    Quoting jaguar007: Remember when everyone thought Craig was ugly and would be unpopular with the women? It turns out he is the most popular Bond with women yet!
    I don't know about that. A lot of women like Sean Connery.

    As far as 2005 goes, I rather have seen Hugh Jackman. I think he was a front runner, but EON decided to go with Craig.
    Quoting chuck007: Dalton's Bond sometimes looks like a candidate for the psychiatrist's couch — a burned-out killer who may have just enough energy left for one final mission.


    That's why Dalton isn't considered one of the best. Many males fantasize about being Bond. The actor who plays Bond must realize this, and embrace all of the positive elements that go with the role. Roger Moore was probably the best at doing that.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Quoting Moonraker: That's why Dalton isn't considered one of the best.
    You must not have visited MI6forums before... 8->
  • MoonrakerMoonraker
    Posts: 60
    Quoting DaltonCraig007: You must not have visited MI6forums before... 8->
    Haha! Well, better make this clear:

    "That's why Dalton isn't considered one of the best...by the average film viewer."



  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    edited May 2011 Posts: 257
    Quoting Moonraker:
    "That's why Dalton isn't considered one of the best...by the average film
    viewer."

    I am not sure that the average film viewer is an authority on the subject. Everyone has their own opinion, of course, which is as valid as any other - however, the average 21st Century film viewer (and maybe it's different in Britain or elsewhere than it is here in America) has not read one Bond book, let alone them all, and many have not even viewed all 22 Bond films (not including NSNA).

    So, sure, the average film viewer might bring up Connery, Brosnan, or Craig every time as an answer to "Who is the Best Bond?" and not consider Dalton - but have they seen the Dalton films or read the Fleming novels? How many Bond films have they even seen? Do they even watch the Bond films for the character of James Bond or do they just like watching things blow up and people shoot at each other (like my brother in-law)? I am not as enthused to hear about what the average film viewer has to say about Bond as I am to hear an actual Bond fan's opinion on Bond.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Good point @Jazz007 listening to a conversation two of my friends had about Bond recently, a subject I nor them had ever brought up before, them mentioned liking or not likely the recent films, hating Brosnan's and talked about Connery's and Moore's briefly.

    Dalton and Lazenby of course didn't get a look in. Afterall they've only got three films between them.
  • MoonrakerMoonraker
    Posts: 60
    Jazz007,

    I understand your point Jazz. Regardless of whether it's fortunate, or unfortunate, it is the average moviegoer who decides what's "best". They ultimately determine the success of each James Bond film, and back in 1989 they decided to go see other films rather than see Timothy Dalton in "Licence to Kill". I'm not suggesting that you, or anyone else don't already know how it works. I'm just explaining the point I was trying to make.
    Quoting Samuel001: Dalton and Lazenby of course didn't get a look in. Afterall they've only got three films between them.
    I think Lazenby and Dalton both have their positives. However, the fact of the matter is that hardly anyone who isn't a major Bond fan knows or remembers Lazenby, and there are many people who don't remember Dalton being Bond.


  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: But then that brings up another problem. The way Bond acts in CR/QOS, there's no way in hell he'd make it through the SAS. They'd either drum that out of Bond, or kick him out.
    That is a valid point, but that is also valid for every actor that has played Bond. All six Bonds have done something rash, juvenile and disobedient that would not have been tolerated in real life. Bond is not real life, he is fantasy, so he can get away with it.
  • MoonrakerMoonraker
    Posts: 60
    jaguar007,

    Congrats on winning the BondCapCon this week.

  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    Quoting Moonraker: Regardless of whether it's fortunate, or unfortunate, it is the average
    moviegoer who decides what's "best". They ultimately determine the success of
    each James Bond film
    "Best" and "[financially] successful" are not necessarily synonymous with one another. There have been some brilliant films that did not make a lot of money at the box office and there have been some awful films that people paid bucket-loads to see. Let's be honest, the average film viewer needs only the promise of a lot of special effects to flock to the cinemas in droves....

    But the point I made earlier is that the average film viewer has not even seen enough of Bond to even make an informed choice. If I only saw Batman Returns on TV and Batman Begins & The Dark Knight at the cinema and countless times on Blu-Ray, out of all the Batman films around, I could claim that Christian Bale is the best Batman but does my opinion really carry that much weight having only seen three Batman films and only two actors? I would say not really. One can have that opinion, but only the viewers who have seen all the other Batman films can back up an informed opinion that Bale is the best.

    Such a thing happens, I have seen, with the average film viewer and Bond. Especially with a lot of 20-and-30-somethings, they have seen half to most of the Brosnan films and both Craig films but the rest of their understanding of the series is spotty - an OP here and a GF there.... Does their opinion about who is the best Bond really carry that much weight? I argue no.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2011 Posts: 15,723
    @Jazz007 You are spot on. But, however, we must admit Bond films are made for those average viewers. Us hardcore Bond fans are meaningless in the bigger scheme of things.

    EON knows that hardcore Bond fans such as members of this website will most likely see every Bond film that will get made, so they totally don't care about us. The important, and only audience that EON care about, is the average viewers, that will or won't watch the new outing, so EON tries their best to make them want to see the newest outing.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    @DaltonCraig007 I agree with you, absolutely. When it comes to making money on the next Bond film, EON cares first and foremost about how the average film viewer will react. But when it comes to an appreciation and evaluation of the series, the opinion of the generally incompletely viewed and informed average film viewer carries less significance.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Wow, not a mention of Cavill in this thread since April 27th! I keep seeing this topic pop up at the top of the latest discussions and getting this reaction (:| Who is this guy and why is his name flooding the Mi6 Community!?! Jk... But he hasn't done much that is well known (and no, Red Riding Hood doesn't count), so it's hard for me to tell. I guess he 'looks' the part...
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    @JBFan626 Cavill impressed me very much in The Tudors; with that as my only point of reference, I was warming to the idea that he would take over for Craig when his reign was through since Cavill seemed, to me, to have a talent for subtle intensity and depth that reminded me a little bit of Timothy Dalton....

    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3386217984/nm0147147
    http://www.pelicanpromotions.com.au/dalton/LIONTIM1.JPG

    .... However, seeing as how he has comitted to the new Superman series it seems less likely that Cavill will be Bond in the future. But, who knows? Maybe with a little luck the Superman film will bomb?
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    @Jazz007Thanks! I'll check that out! I am certainly curious to see what he will do with a more darker take on Superman...But who knows, if the Superman Reboot doesn't take off he could still possible be in consideration for Bond #7
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