The DANIEL CRAIG Appreciation thread - Discuss His Life, His Career, His Bond Films

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  • Posts: 4,622
    The only explanation for putting the body in the dumpster would be to hide the body in the short term, so the question is why the need to temporarily hide the body? hmmm
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    Okay, I want to double down on my "top of the heap" comment.

    Bond's actions symbolically and literally elevate Mathis above the bad guys left lying on the ground. Leaving him as he expired at street level is what would disrespect and diminish the character.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Okay, I want to double down on my "top of the heap" comment.

    Bond's actions symbolically and literally elevate Mathis above the bad guys left lying on the ground. Leaving him as he expired at street level is what would disrespect and diminish the character.

    This.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 4,409
    It's symbolic: Bond's final tribute to a good friend in the Service as "top of the heap".

    Also serves as misdirection, the appearance of a mugging gone wrong. Even if the bad guys will pin it on him regardless, there's not much more Bond can do with the situation.

    More seriously, I want observe that maybe no character in the Bond films is given such a respectful focus in their dying moments as with Mathis here. It's a passing of the torch from an older agent to a new one, and properly gives perspective to the dangerous and dirty business they're in.

    When you think about it, it is unusual.

    I suppose Bond was trying to make it seem like a mugging and wanted to hide the body to but himself some more time. However, we don't see him tidy the policemen's bodies off the road. Though, we can surely presume he did; even though his last line to Camille is "Let's go".

    I think the honest truth is that it was a symbolic gesture. It's Bond's attempt to give Mathis some kind of burial. In hindsight it wasn't necessarily the most respectful, but it must have made sense in the moment.

    I haven't had a friend gunned down in cold blood next to me before, so I doubt Bond (who was still as good as a rookie) was thinking that straight.

    However, it's a beautiful moment between Craig and Giannini. What makes it so interesting is the tenderness before the moment of death followed by the moment Bond disposes of the body. There's a coldness to it, but also some heart lurking in there. There's a similar moment with Mr White's death in SP.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    Here's still another layer.

    Notice the position Mathis is left in as seen from above. An important sacrificial lamb.
    main-qimg-67a02c892ddf5c2a56fb19baeec951b2
    tumblr_p291r8dIvz1qk7sffo4_500.png

    And to quote Mathis himself: Being dead doesn't mean one can't still be helpful.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,207
    Here's still another layer.

    Notice the position Mathis is left in as seen from above. An important sacrificial lamb.
    main-qimg-67a02c892ddf5c2a56fb19baeec951b2
    tumblr_p291r8dIvz1qk7sffo4_500.png

    And to quote Mathis himself: Being dead doesn't mean one can't still be helpful.

    You know, my gut reaction was to feel you are reading too much into this; but with some thought, and that screen grab, I think that your take on this may be valid; it could have been part of Forster’s vision.

  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    I hated seeing Mathis go since he's one of my favorite characters. However, I consider it one of the best scenes of the Craig era. I think @Pierce2Daniel said it very well. There's a tenderness to Craig's Bond followed by extreme coldness. You can tell Bond doesn't wanna do this, but hey duty calls.
  • Posts: 4,622
    It is a very odd scene, as there is no readily apparent practical reason for hiding the body.
    Maybe Forster might feel compelled to explain someday.
    It might though be as simple as Bond feeling a need to remove the body from the street out of respect for Mathis ie to engage the act of putting the body somewhere out of public sight, even if a dumpster was the best he could do, hence the comment "he wouldn't mind"
  • Posts: 19,339
    But Bond didn't 'put' the body in the dumpster,he tossed him in with disdain.
  • Posts: 154
    I always took that as disdain for his own actions - not wanting to do that to a friend, however doing it for the sake of appearances. Very well acted by Craig.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Matt wrote: »
    I always took that as disdain for his own actions - not wanting to do that to a friend, however doing it for the sake of appearances. Very well acted by Craig.

    That's how I see it Matt,but not placing Mathis in the dumpster and just throwing him in was weird.
    I always think it was because he was in a hurry, but who knows.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited August 2018 Posts: 4,585
    I always assumed Bond tossed Mathis in the dumpster to throw off the police (and Greene), for just a little while. Minutes matter.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TripAces wrote: »
    I always assumed Bond tossed Mathis in the dumpster to throw off the police (and Greene), for just a little while. Minutes matter.

    Would have been better if it were a compactor, or a grinder.
  • Posts: 19,339
    TripAces wrote: »
    I always assumed Bond tossed Mathis in the dumpster to throw off the police (and Greene), for just a little while. Minutes matter.

    Would have been better if it were a compactor, or a grinder.

    Mathis was on Grinder ?
    Wow takes all sorts,i thought he was straight !!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The dumping of Mathis' body is a top 5 scene of the Craig era.
  • pking_3pking_3 Punting under the Bridge of Sighs
    edited August 2018 Posts: 33
    The dumping of Mathis' body by Bond is primarily a character study moment, an insight into Bond's psyche masquerading as an act of mission logistics. Ultimately, it doesn't serve a purely practical purpose but simply an intimate purpose in which we see more of Bond's personality. Since there's pretty much no way to successfully do this sort of characterization and introspection within the Bond framework overtly (heck, Fleming spent very little time explicating Bond's psyche but rather let us know the character through his adventures and actions ... and the movies are of course even more cursory and vapid), we must learn of Bond's guilt/self-image through such acts.

    He is torn between mission and indulgence. A (the?) theme of QOS is his tightrope walk between orders and vengeance, duty vs. gratification. He wants to not care about Mathis but he still does so. He doesn't think folks like Mathis (and, like himself) deserve care, yet he's compelled to want it anyways. He must be both rough and tender. He is, after all, both the hero and the assassin. He is the lying spy and also the savior. He's in a morally grey world-weary paranoid Bourne/Parallax/Condor the-world-is-shit story, while also in a mythic, proto-superheroic, almost-magic, elemental-energy infused struggle between good and evil, simultaneously.

    That's why we find Bond special, over the years (generations). He is a gritty man worse than any of us, and a transcendent symbol we all wish we could aspire to. Both.

    He's not sure what treatment Mathis and he each deserve in the end, but he is compelled act as if they both deserve elevation and the garbage heap, together. He's not sure whether to forgive (which, recall, was Mathis' immediately prior entreaty to this scene) or damn the bitch, as he must act out both impulses right now. It's about Vesper, Mathis, himself. It bleeds all over everything else in this interesting story.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Very good, @pking_3 ! Hero/assassin a very important theme in Craig's Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Yes, well observed and written @pking_3. For all we know, this could be a part of the internal conflict at the centre of B25.
  • pking_3pking_3 Punting under the Bridge of Sighs
    Posts: 33
    Yeah, I like that sort of Bond storytelling stuff :-) It ain't all explosions and product placement.

    QOS does have some ambitious and interesting theming going on, if one can only focus on it between the camera shakes.

    Now...what was the theme of that daft boat anchor? I have no idea what that was all about ;-)
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Outstanding post @pking_3
  • Posts: 19,339
    Very good theory @pking_3 ,makes a lot of sense.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2018 Posts: 40,968
    Saw this on Reddit, I believe it's the Omega Seamaster ad starring him as Bond:

    TpGdjMG45koePVJ0oOKgvsh73u6rTEiKqpjrXjrohgo.jpg?w=576&s=7bbaa73d280e5a3a62bb10d88519e453
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    pking_3 wrote: »
    The dumping of Mathis' body by Bond is primarily a character study moment, an insight into Bond's psyche masquerading as an act of mission logistics. Ultimately, it doesn't serve a purely practical purpose but simply an intimate purpose in which we see more of Bond's personality. Since there's pretty much no way to successfully do this sort of characterization and introspection within the Bond framework overtly (heck, Fleming spent very little time explicating Bond's psyche but rather let us know the character through his adventures and actions ... and the movies are of course even more cursory and vapid), we must learn of Bond's guilt/self-image through such acts.

    He is torn between mission and indulgence. A (the?) theme of QOS is his tightrope walk between orders and vengeance, duty vs. gratification. He wants to not care about Mathis but he still does so. He doesn't think folks like Mathis (and, like himself) deserve care, yet he's compelled to want it anyways. He must be both rough and tender. He is, after all, both the hero and the assassin. He is the lying spy and also the savior. He's in a morally grey world-weary paranoid Bourne/Parallax/Condor the-world-is-shit story, while also in a mythic, proto-superheroic, almost-magic, elemental-energy infused struggle between good and evil, simultaneously.

    That's why we find Bond special, over the years (generations). He is a gritty man worse than any of us, and a transcendent symbol we all wish we could aspire to. Both.

    He's not sure what treatment Mathis and he each deserve in the end, but he is compelled act as if they both deserve elevation and the garbage heap, together. He's not sure whether to forgive (which, recall, was Mathis' immediately prior entreaty to this scene) or damn the bitch, as he must act out both impulses right now. It's about Vesper, Mathis, himself. It bleeds all over everything else in this interesting story.

    Excellent analysis, @pking_3 . I miss the depth that you used to go into on a regular basis in the old IMDB board.
  • Posts: 17,756
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw this on Reddit, I believe it's the Omega Seamaster ad starring him as Bond:

    TpGdjMG45koePVJ0oOKgvsh73u6rTEiKqpjrXjrohgo.jpg?w=576&s=7bbaa73d280e5a3a62bb10d88519e453

    Is this a very recent ad? He looks a bit…old?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @Torgeirtrap, it must be a recent ad; just saw it shared on Reddit a few hours ago, so I'm assuming it is. Couldn't find anything about it with a quick Google search earlier, maybe there's something up now.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Yes, as far I know it was released today or yesterday.

    I like his very distinguished look. He looks world-weary. Just by going by his appearance in this photo, it looks like the end of the circle of the young Bond created back in '06.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Doesn‘t look all that world-weary to me. Clothing will also be a key factor about how youthful he‘ll appear in B25
  • Posts: 17,756
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, it must be a recent ad; just saw it shared on Reddit a few hours ago, so I'm assuming it is. Couldn't find anything about it with a quick Google search earlier, maybe there's something up now.

    Thought it must be. A bit strange with the gray-ish hair, isn't it? I know lighting doesn't help, but still.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,538
    Omega-ad-starring-Daniel-Craig-1.jpg

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Drowning in development hell.
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