The DANIEL CRAIG Appreciation thread - Discuss His Life, His Career, His Bond Films

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Agreed. I do like the conversation between Bond and Blofeld in the MI6 building, as well as the thematics of Blofeld trying to kill Bond by having the building implode around him. But like all the Craig films (sans QOS), it did feel like it had an over-long ending.
    I too wish they'd used the lair in Morocco to greater effect.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I found the whole finale to be overly jumbled and convoluted - this whole set up to capture Bond, just for him to escape anyway, but then there are writings directing Bond (all complete with promo stills from the past films, hilariously enough) to where Blofeld is somehow.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,547
    It's not great. Personally I've not been too caught up in the minutiae for stuff like this, but yeah, executed poorly.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited October 2022 Posts: 2,016
    Not trying to be bullish, but I think some of us here would have directed the London scenes better. I'm still shocked Mendes oversaw those scenes. Apart from Bond fighting Mr Hinx in the building, the ruins of the building would have also been cool for an explosive and inventive shootout with Blofeld's goons....before rescuing Madeleine and chasing after Blofeld. The lack of thrill and action in the finale is what I still don't understand till date.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    I think the advantage with Daniel over Roger is that they played to his age rather than trying to play dress up and pretend that he was still a young man operating in a young man's game. It really helped/worked with Daniel. Had they done the same with Rog then it may be a different discussion!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,547


    Craig is so brilliant in these scenes, so grounded, confident, and sauve. I actually get quite a bit of Moore from him in these moments, especially when he's watching Paloma down her martini. Moore with a darker edge.

    Those three goons carrying around the eye for Blofeld are so awesome as well, so Bondian. I imagine the two on either side have the little speaker and the microphone, and they are "The Eye of Blofeld", "The Ear of Blofeld", and "The Mouth of Blofeld". I don't think there's anything really in the film to indicate any of this is the case, but it's true in my mind. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    We definitely get a really good glimpse of how well Craig could have easily carried a lighter Bond film. I think SPECTRE should have been that entirely, just discard the foster brother elements and it’s basically just a film about Bond giving SPECTRE a good bloody nose.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2022 Posts: 16,383
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I think the advantage with Daniel over Roger is that they played to his age rather than trying to play dress up and pretend that he was still a young man operating in a young man's game. It really helped/worked with Daniel. Had they done the same with Rog then it may be a different discussion!

    It could have been quite nice for Zorin to mock his advancing years, perhaps -as he knew he was 007, after all-, only for Rog (or his stuntman) to karate kick him in the face :D
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2022 Posts: 16,383
    We definitely get a really good glimpse of how well Craig could have easily carried a lighter Bond film. I think SPECTRE should have been that entirely, just discard the foster brother elements and it’s basically just a film about Bond giving SPECTRE a good bloody nose.

    I don't mind the attempts at drama in Spectre, but Craig definitely works well in the lighter bits for me.
    Not to try and stir the pot, but I always rankle at folks who say 'Dalton did it first' - Dalton's Bond never handled any of the lighter stuff that Craig's Bond has in Spectre, and he didn't do any of the cool swagger of CraigBond either. There's nothing comparable to the pure celebratory cool of Bond walking across those Mexican rooftops in Dalton's films. Connery, yes.
    And he did it with a broken leg! Craig was the complete Bond, Dalton could do the angry bits.

    (apologies, I meant to combine those into one post but pressed 'post' without thinking :) )
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    No I totally agree. Dalton wanted to do Fleming’s Bond, which doesn’t make room for the swagger of cinematic Bond that audiences are accustomed to. Craig was riding the line between both takes by giving his darker portrayal that swagger, and I think it’s important to note that because that is exactly why Craig was popular and Dalton wasn’t.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited November 2022 Posts: 4,585
    Not trying to be bullish, but I think some of us here would have directed the London scenes better. I'm still shocked Mendes oversaw those scenes. Apart from Bond fighting Mr Hinx in the building, the ruins of the building would have also been cool for an explosive and inventive shootout with Blofeld's goons....before rescuing Madeleine and chasing after Blofeld. The lack of thrill and action in the finale is what I still don't understand till date.

    We can tell that the film and its third act were hastily thrown together. I can't fault Mendes too much, because he was not happy with the script and wanted more time. Babs and Michael basically told him they were going to start filming, early December, 2014, whether he liked it or not.

    That's the bad news.

    The good news is that it taught them to never rush a film. When CJF wasn't pleased with the script for NTTD, Babs and Michael gave him the time/space to get it figured out. This was what delayed filming.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, the leaked Sony emails and SP drafts show just how troubled SP's third act was. Draft after draft seem to have been churned out and junked. At one point, one of the studio execs commented about a new draft: 'That's even worse than it was before!' I think they'd got so bogged down, they couldn't see the wood for the trees.
    Madeleine fighting Irma Bunt in the ruins of MI6, Bond and Moneypenny chasing Blofeld, a collapsing bridge and an ambulance in the Thames, Blofeld going 'But we're family!', Bond hoisting Blofeld above his head or shooting him in the face, there were all kinds of dodgy ideas thrown in at various times. The version we did get in the final film was better than any of the alternatives, tbh.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    It's pretty stunning that the finale could've somehow been worse. It sounds like they would've done better with a complete rewrite and story.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, the leaked Sony emails and SP drafts show just how troubled SP's third act was. Draft after draft seem to have been churned out and junked. At one point, one of the studio execs commented about a new draft: 'That's even worse than it was before!' I think they'd got so bogged down, they couldn't see the wood for the trees.
    Madeleine fighting Irma Bunt in the ruins of MI6, Bond and Moneypenny chasing Blofeld, a collapsing bridge and an ambulance in the Thames, Blofeld going 'But we're family!', Bond hoisting Blofeld above his head or shooting him in the face, there were all kinds of dodgy ideas thrown in at various times. The version we did get in the final film was better than any of the alternatives, tbh.

    This might be considered controversial for a Bond movie. I like the ideas of a Bond Girl fighting Irma Bunt and Bond and Moneypenny chasing a main villain down together. Even the bridge and ambulance sound like decent ideas. For a future movie, of course. It would all depend on how it’s directed and edited.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    TripAces wrote: »
    Not trying to be bullish, but I think some of us here would have directed the London scenes better. I'm still shocked Mendes oversaw those scenes. Apart from Bond fighting Mr Hinx in the building, the ruins of the building would have also been cool for an explosive and inventive shootout with Blofeld's goons....before rescuing Madeleine and chasing after Blofeld. The lack of thrill and action in the finale is what I still don't understand till date.

    We can tell that the film and its third act were hastily thrown together. I can't fault Mendes too much, because he was not happy with the script and wanted more time. Babs and Michael basically told him they were going to start filming, early December, 2014, whether he liked it or not.

    That's the bad news.

    The good news is that it taught them to never rush a film. When CJF wasn't pleased with the script for NTTD, Babs and Michael gave him the time/space to get it figured out. This was what delayed filming.

    Yeah. But what surprises me more is, a meticulous director like Mendes knew what he was filming wasn't making sense, but he went ahead with it. One would expect a director like him to insist on a better script before filming.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Reading parts of the leaked scripts of SP, it looks like the writers and producers were struggling between making a traditional Bond film and also bending conventions

    In one script Q shoots someone and in another one Bond shoots Blofeld in the head. That solar furnace idea sounded interesting
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,152
    I think Mendes lost heart before the end, tbh. He was involved with John Logan's SP script, but said that Logan 'hit a wall' ideas-wise and the studio didn't/couldn't give him time to resolve any issues with it. That brought P & W back into the fold... Not sure if the EON line about Logan having to get back to Penny Dreadful was real or just trying to save him a bit of face. Said it before, but I sometimes get the impression that an element of 'let's get this over the line' had crept in with SP, rather than a triumphant romp to the finish. Having said all that, I don't actually dislike SP's third act! I see it's faults but, nah, I'm good with it. Shooting Blofeld in the face on Westminster Bridge could've worked, though...
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    I might be wrong, but I think the only reason Mendes might have continued with the script, even with all its very visible flaws, is because they offered him a lot of money. That could be the case, considering SF made a Billion.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I might be wrong, but I think the only reason Mendes might have continued with the script, even with all its very visible flaws, is because they offered him a lot of money. That could be the case, considering SF made a Billion.

    It's probably easy to wrap a rough shoot on a project you know isn't anywhere near as great as your last one was when you're pocketing a cool few million for it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I might be wrong, but I think the only reason Mendes might have continued with the script, even with all its very visible flaws, is because they offered him a lot of money. That could be the case, considering SF made a Billion.

    It's probably easy to wrap a rough shoot on a project you know isn't anywhere near as great as your last one was when you're pocketing a cool few million for it.

    Yeah. True.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Reading the leaks around SP is truly fascinating and interesting to see how the script morphed over time.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's probably easy to wrap a rough shoot on a project you know isn't anywhere near as great as your last one was when you're pocketing a cool few million for it.
    Indeed!

  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    By both standard : standards of the whole film series or just standards within the Craig tenure ... SP is a very flawed film. And 70% because of the script and 30% due to it's tired execution which often just felt without "drive". Look at the car chase, look at so many scenes where Craig's can't be blamed at all. I blame the script and Mendes who obviously did not want to do the movie and just did it for the money.

    The film had awesome moments and scenes and an excellent cast. But many other things just did not work (for me). To me this film is just one HUGE missed opportunity. I spare the film completely when I rewatch the Craig films. All others I like very much and rank among my favourites besides the golden Connery ones.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I love Spectre but agree that it’s a huge missed opportunity. But when you say Mendes only did it for the money… why then did he demand to use Spectre and Blofeld? My understanding is that was key to get Mendes back after Skyfall. Why didn’t he just demand… more money?
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited November 2022 Posts: 732
    As far as *I* know (and others may know better) he was reluctant to do it for many reasons until they offered him a huge amount of money and made other promises that in the end nor EON or the schedule could keep up to. But as far as I know he really did not want to do it and had to be convinced quite much.

    When I cut the movie to about 40 minutes and keep all I like it's quite good. I loved the train fight, the Mr. White sequence, Q in the alps and other things. But the whole third act is a joke and to me all those talents involved are terribly wasted in this movie. Craig foremost but all others as well. I was happy to see Madeleine or other elements got their second chance to shine way more in NTTD ... would have loved to see Hinx back because he was a really cool henchman.

    I could go on and on - kudos to Daniel Craig to have delivered still all he could even under so much pain during the shoot. It was really surprising how much more agile and younger came across in NTTD in comparison to SP - but considering those circumstances it makes sense these days.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2022 Posts: 7,547
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    As far as *I* know (and others may know better) he was reluctant to do it for many reasons until they offered him a huge amount of money and made other promises that in the end nor EON or the schedule could keep up to. But as far as I know he really did not want to do it and had to be convinced quite much.

    When I cut the movie to about 40 minutes and keep all I like it's quite good. I loved the train fight, the Mr. White sequence, Q in the alps and other things. But the whole third act is a joke and to me all those talents involved are terribly wasted in this movie. Craig foremost but all others as well. I was happy to see Madeleine or other elements got their second chance to shine way more in NTTD ... would have loved to see Hinx back because he was a really cool henchman.

    I could go on and on - kudos to Daniel Craig to have delivered still all he could even under so much pain during the shoot. It was really surprising how much more agile and younger came across in NTTD in comparison to SP - but considering those circumstances it makes sense these days.

    It's funny because I basically agree with 100% of what you're saying, but I come out of Spectre enjoying it more than it seems like you do, which 100% makes sense, just a funny observation! I'd also pretty much throw out the London bit/third act, but I do really like Bond and Blofeld talking in Vauxhall Cross before things kick off.

    The only scene in the film that I *really* hate is the Q hotel room scene. "I owe you an apology... Oberhauser is alive, and the ring proves it." No, no, no.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 2022 Posts: 2,016
    I think the long frustration with SP is because, like most missed opportunities in film history, there's a very good film in it, struggling to find its way. For example, someone like Terence Young would have given Bellucci's Lucia something more to do. I think what Craig's Bond era missed, is the proper use of femme fatales. It's something EON should really consider bringing back for Bond 7.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Yes, precisely.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I agree - there defeinitely was a good film in there that couldn't make it to the surface.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2022 Posts: 16,383
    TripAces wrote: »
    Not trying to be bullish, but I think some of us here would have directed the London scenes better. I'm still shocked Mendes oversaw those scenes. Apart from Bond fighting Mr Hinx in the building, the ruins of the building would have also been cool for an explosive and inventive shootout with Blofeld's goons....before rescuing Madeleine and chasing after Blofeld. The lack of thrill and action in the finale is what I still don't understand till date.

    We can tell that the film and its third act were hastily thrown together. I can't fault Mendes too much, because he was not happy with the script and wanted more time. Babs and Michael basically told him they were going to start filming, early December, 2014, whether he liked it or not.

    Yeah I don't blame Mendes too much for it: he's said the last act fell apart while he was making the film and we know there were an awful lot of cooks involved. Short of getting Chris Macquarrie onboard to do some of his magical last minute scripts fixes I'm not sure what they could have done. I don't even know now how you'd fix it.
    It still feels more like a Bond film to me than others like NTTD do, and I think it might even be Craig's best performance as Bond (although I probably feel that way after watching each of his films!). There's a lot of good bits in it too, even if it doesn't become a pleasing whole as SF did. I don't hate it.
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