"No limits, no fears, no substitutes?": Let's discuss... GoldenEye (1995)/ Poll

St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
edited June 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,699
<img src="http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh215/george-in-the-smoke/ge_banner.jpg">;




Right, it's that time again, peeps... yes, time for another thread dedicated to discussing the pros and cons, the ins and outs, the best and the worst of one particular Bond film. And stepping up to the plate is that transatlantic titan of '90s smooth, the Brozzer, in his first outing in the 007 tux, GoldenEye.

I'll kick things off by admitting that GE has always - and surely will always - hold a very fond and firm place in my heart. Released as it was at the start of my late teens (and arriving after a six-year cinematic hiatus for our favourite hero), it was something of a cool, colourful, somewhat laid-back and somewhat retro godsend. It harked back to the greatness of the screen 007 of old (the glamour, the sexy girls with silly names, the DB5, the belting title song, the villain's lair going kaboom), while also making Bond cool overnight again - that last point is one forgotten quite easily in the wake of Brosnan's tenure and CR, methinks. I like GE a lot and, although it has its faults, it still stands up today as a solid, good and enjoyable romp of a Bond action-adventure-cum-thriller for me...
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Comments

  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    GE is one of the best, if not THE best Bond film of all IMO. It retains a lot of the crucial elements of a Bond movie (guns, gagets, wit, humour etc) yet brings it into the 90s with an almighty bang. Sure the thing may have dated somewhat in recent years but, frankly, what Bond film hasn't? Martin Campbell is a welcome addition to the Bond directors as he brings a freshness and contemporary feeling to the film. John Glenn was great but his films were starting to run out of energy. There are many other plus points which I will go through now.

    Firstly, we have Pierce Brosnan who brings a sense of much-needed fun back into the franchise after the exciting but admittingly dour LTK (sorry Dalton fans). When we first see him driving the Aston Martin DB5 it's clear he is a character who loves life and all it's luxurious pleasures. He has a playful, almost schoolboy quality that makes him entertaining and appealing to watch. Yet he is also physical enough to be believed as a gentleman spy (something good ol' Sir Rog lacked).

    Secondly we have Izabella Scorupco as Natalya, clearly an independent sassy Bond girl for the 90s. She has a fiestiness and sexuality that really gets me hot under the collar and proves an equal match for Bond. When she says "I'm fine thank you very much" for the second time, it almost sounds erotic.

    Thirdly we have Samantha Bond, who like Izabella has a playful, cheeky side to her. One can tell that she relishes the lines she delivers, and actually acts like a flirtatious secretary rather than a smitten school-girl (Caroline Bliss).

    Fourth, we have the compelling story itself. Bond being relevant in a post-cold war age is something that frankly could not be ignored. Similarly, the idea of Bond facing an old adversary is something not covered in the Bond series up to this point and certainly makes for a gripping plot twist. Good ol' James is quite literally facing his equal. This brings me onto Sean Bean as Alec Trevelyan, who is superb! Bean has the physical presence to match that of Bond and delivers all of his monologues perfectly.

    Fifth there is Xenya Onatopp, a gloriously OTT henchwoman. In many ways she harks back to the flamboyant, politically incorrect style of the Fleming era. Beautiful, sexy yet deadly at the same time.

    Fifth, General Oromov who is somewhat forgotten nowadays. Godfrey John has the screen presence and authority that suits his character perfectly.

    Sixth, there is Judy Dench as the new M who also has the authority and wordly-wise quality to be believed as Bond's boss. When we first see her we don't feel threatened by the fact that she is a woman, she is just accepted in the role. Dench's stature and almost masculine stirness mean that she is brilliantly cast in the part and, at this point, doesn't have to play the surrogate "mom". She may be bruitally honest with Bond yet she respects him and trusts him to do the job at hand ("Bond? Come back alive!")

    Finally we have the fantastic song by Tina Turner, a woman with vocal talents which surely match that of the almighty Shirley Basset. A song which just oozes glamour, romanticism and danger.

    I'll shut up now but GE will always be fondly remembered in my book :)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Terrible, terrible outing. It basicly feels like a box-ticking hit-list of the most known Bond cliches. DB5? Casino? Vodka Martini? Bond, James Bond? And the plot goes nowhere. Worst pace in the franchise. Bond doesn't get any assignment before the 40 minutes mark. And of course you have the worst Bond performance of all time - Brosnan being totally outshined by the entire cast. And Brosnan's first conquest is that boring, uninteresting and uttler annoying high-school women in charge of supervising Bond? Wonderful way of showing Brosnan's virility... what a wuss. Only the wonderful Serra soundtrack can put this movie on the top of the bottom 6 for me. Kind of a lackluster return for Bond after 6 years of absence. And of course, the start of the appalling current era of Bond, still continuing to this day, and it's only getting worse with the pathetic 2 latest outings.
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Quoting DaltonCraig007:
    Terrible, terrible outing. It basicly feels like a
    box-ticking hit-list of the most known Bond cliches. DB5? Casino? Vodka Martini?
    Bond, James Bond? And the plot goes nowhere. Worst pace in the franchise. Bond
    doesn't get any assignment before the 40 minutes mark. And of course you have
    the worst Bond performance of all time - Brosnan being totally outshined by the
    entire cast. And Brosnan's first conquest is that boring, uninteresting and
    uttler annoying high-school women in charge of supervising Bond? Wonderful way
    of showing Brosnan's virility... what a wuss. Only the wonderful Serra
    soundtrack can put this movie on the top of the bottom 6 for me. Kind of a
    lackluster return for Bond after 6 years of absence. And of course, the start of
    the appalling current era of Bond, still continuing to this day, and it's only
    getting worse with the pathetic 2 latest outings.
    and this is coming from someone who considers MWTGG and DAF as two of the finest Bond films ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Quoting BAIN123: and this is coming from someone who considers MWTGG and DAF as two of the finest Bond films
    TMWTGG, DAF and MR all in my top 5 ! ;-)
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Quoting BAIN123: Brosnan being totally outshined by the
    entire cast.
    No! That's George Lazenby - and I say that as someone who admired him for taking on Bond.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Honestly, even Tcheky Karyo (Mishkin) wiped the floor with Brosnan.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I honestly never thought that :-|
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 1,092
    It's a solid film and what the franchise needed at the time but it has waned of late for me in my rankings, not even in the top 10 anymore; considering what followed in its wake, the all time low point in the series with the next three films, it makes GE seem worse than it was at the time of its release.

    GE is fun, has some great actions scenes, they are really well done, the tank scene in particular is fantastic. Martin Campell is very capable as director but the film suffers from what later would plague the Brosnan era all the way through. The box ticking Bond cliches, the gadgets. I mean, Brosnan gets out of almost every single problem b/c of a gadget, all the fricking time.

    It starts here with GE and it is hard for me to seperate GE from the next three films, all watchable but all disappointing. And I hate Xena Onatopp. Horrible, horrible character. It can't even watch her scenes anymore. She sounds like she is orgasming when she fights. Squeezing people with her legs? So stupid and lame it makes me sick. For real, she almost ruins the entire film for me. Juvenile to the extreme.

    But still, Robbie Coltran is a great character and sometimes helper for Bond. Brosnan never had a Felix Leiter so it is nice to see something different for a change. Judi makes a great first appearance as M and their initial meeting is a strong scene. So there are some good things here.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Quoting The_Reaper: I mean, Brosnan gets out of almost every single problem b/c of a gadget, all the
    fricking time.

    I agree he uses A LOT of gadgets but I don't think he needs them ALL the time. Two examples in GE:
    -Using the squeeky fuel trolly as a shield
    -jamming the mechanism on the antenna at the end
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 161
    I've always wondered why Brosnan didn't have a Felix Leiter. Who came up with Jack Wade?
  • Posts: 638
    Being a fan of Remington Steele in the 80s, Brosnan was my choice to replace Moore as Bond (that is until I saw TLD and realized that Dalton was a far superior actor). After the long gap following LTK, I was very disappointed when it was announced that Dalton would not be returning, but I had little doubt that Brosnan would be cast as the next Bond. I was very excited for the return of Bond and I was going to make the most out of it. I got tickets to the world premiere (and convention the day before). It was one of the most thrilling weekends of my life, being 10 feet away from the complete cast, attending the world premiere at Radio City Music Hall.

    Then I saw the movie.

    I did not think it was bad, in fact I liked the movie, but it certainly did fall below my expectations. Worst of all, Brosnan fell below my expectations as James Bond. I just felt like he was a kid putting on his dad's tux playing James Bond. He lacked the confidence and commanding presence needed for Bond(even Laz and Moore were more commanding). Fortunately Brosnan got better as Bond but his films got worse. I think GE is probably the best made film of Brosnan's 4, but his performance and the music score keep it from being my favorite film of his.
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Quoting jaguar007: He lacked the confidence and commanding presence needed for Bond
    It's funny, I've always felt the opposite. Maybe thats just due to the fact that GE was the first Bond film I ever saw and (more importantly) the one that began my love affair with the franchise.

    In fact I'm going to make a bold statement:

    I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THE BROSNAN ERA
  • Well, I agree with @Bain123. Seeing as he already gave a very nice summary of GE's greatest features I'll just say a few things. There is nothing that I dislike about the film. I love the Bond, the villain, the girls, the plot, everything. It strikes that perfect delicate balance between humor and grittiness. It's just a classic Bond film that feels and looks great every time I watch it. I currently have it at number 3 in my rankings and it will forever remain near the top of my list. And I almost forgot to mention Xenia, the sexiest/scariest bad girl in the series. Iconic Bond! :-D
  • Posts: 638
    I will back up my somewhat negative post about GE with something positive, that film, and Brosnan are what the series needed at that time. Yes, it (and rest of the Brosnan films) played somewhat like a checklist of cliches, but at the same time they also felt very different than what had come before. While many of the 80s Bond films seemed to try to recapture what had gone before, the Brosnan era tried to be more modern (something maybe they should have done in the 80s to stay relevant) while still providing a wink at its past. It is what the series needed at that point in time. Unfortunately imo, in the whole scheme of things, most of the movies rate middle of the road at the best to bottom of the barrel at the worst.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Quoting BAIN123: I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THE BROSNAN ERA
  • Posts: 11,189
    "Thanks for the memories, eventhough they weren't so great"

    Very subtle there ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Best song I could find... sorry [-O<
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited April 2011 Posts: 1,699
    Interesting views and points, guys, must say.

    @BAIN123 Got to agree with you on Natalya, she's definitely onw of my favourite aspects of GE. Smart, sassy, self-reliant, modern and sexy as hell, she's not just the best Brosnan-era Bond Girl, but for me surely the best of both the '90s and the '80s. Which, yes, makes her one of the best ever for me. The perfect female foil for the pre-millennial 007.

    @The_Reaper I appreciate where you're coming from in how what followed GE mires it somewhat for you, but really I don't say I see it that way at all myself. GE surely is The Brozzer's best outing as Bond (although, as @jaguar007 points out, he'd arguably get better himself as his films got worse) and thus it's a little disappointing that ultimately his best was his first. Yet, GE for me is such a solid, enjoyable outing that none of that matters. TND, TWINE and DAD are underwhelming efforts for their own reasons, not because of GE.

    And, must admit, I've always found it intriguing that Xenia isn't popular around here. She may not be the best villain - or hench(wo)man - of the series, but she was a very interesting addition, methinks, and was very well received at the time from what I recall. I've nothing against her, must admit. And, I mean, Famke Janssen? Mmm, yes please... =P~
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    Don't forget to add your rating score on the Poll people.
  • Quoting St_George: She may not be the best villain - or hench(wo)man - of the series, but she was a very interesting addition, methinks, and was very well received at the time from what I recall. I've nothing against her, must admit. And, I mean, Famke Janssen? Mmm, yes please... =P~
    I agree. I'll even take it a step further and say that she is MY favorite henchwoman of the series. Famke plays the part perfectly and creates a character that is incredibly sexy yet incredibly psychotic at the same time, a fun combination. It's just a fascinating character and I absolutely love her role in the film!
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    GE had a lot working for it. The public craved for a Bond movie after 6 years, the story itself is very strong. Evidently over 6 years there were plenty of attempts and the final story was a success. Director Martin Campbell did a great job and was a solid choice, and GE's main strength is his very strong international cast. Sean Bean was the star of the movie, and a tremendous villain. Famke Janssen portrayed a very memorable femme fatale, one of the best of the series, Izabella Scorupco was nice choice for the lead girl. Robbie Coltrane, Gottfried John and Alan Cumming were very nice selections for their respective characters. Judi Dench certainly broke the mold for M and had her best performance with the character, Samantha Bond did a decent job with Moneypenny. I have no idea why they chose not to use Felix Leiter, but Joe Don Baker portrayed a decent one in Jack Wade. The soundtrack was fine for what it was, the GE theme song was very nice by Tina Turner, there really isn't much not to like in this flick. That leaves us with the absence of a competent actor portraying Bond. To the Dalton enthusiasts, this is a crime as the movie was written specifically for him in mind but I don't know of GE with Dalton would have surpassed the masterpiece that is known as The Living Daylights.
  • Posts: 172
    One of the best Brosnan's bond. This was my first Cinematic Bond experience (before that i only watch Bond movies -OHMSS my first-from VHS). Brosnan's bond lack of commanding presence. Dalton, Lazenby or Connery interpretations can convince us that Bond before become 00 was engage in Royal Navy, having through many combats and special operations. I don't see that in Brosnan. Brosnan's Bond is not someone from royal navy before or someone who has military experience or trainings, Brosnan's Bond was in fact a former captain of Romantic Cruise Ship. And from the introduction of first Bond actor, Brosnan's Bond was ridiculous and for me is one of the humiliating moment of the franchise. Connery introduction was a legend, George Lazenby saved a woman from drowning, Timothy Dalton was scaling a mountain, Roger Moore was in bed with a hot chick ... you get the idea.Daniel Craig in Casino Royale, he was waiting in the shadows to kill a man in cold blood. But here's how the producers chose to introduce us to Pierce Brosnan in Goldeneye.Things started off well enough, with Bond bungee jumping off a dam and breaking into a Russian military installation. He was always seen from a distance, or from behind, or in the shadows, so we didn't get a good look at his face until he'd crawled through a ventilation shaft and emerged from the ceiling ... over a bathroom stall. And that's how audiences were introduced to Pierce Brosnan as the new 007 - hanging upside down over a toilet. Oh, and did I mention the stall was occupied? :-))
    But still its one of good james bond movies . 7/10 from me
  • Posts: 638
    Quoting St_George: And, must admit, I've always found it intriguing that Xenia isn't popular around here.
    Agreed, she is one of the stronger parts of the film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    GE is one of the best Bonds in my book and definitely my favourite. Campbell knew what he was doing, bringing us a Bond film for the 90s. I love it. You instantly feel this was meant as an effective Bond thriller. When Bond shoots down half a Russian prison and the noise is barely tolerable, I geek out completely. This level of aggression and I-mean-business is rare in any Bond flick but surely pleases the hell out of me. I love Famke Janssen in this film - her character, Xenia, is one of those dominatrix vixens who are in it to please the eye, work the male fantasies and leave all of that "I'm Bond's equal" crap home. Isabella is stunningly beautiful. Kleinmann's OT are original besides wonderfully crafted. Every dialogue is written to near perfection: one of the best Bond - M, Bond - Q and Bond - MP moments ever. Quoting from this film is simply great fun. I love the score and the Tina Turner sung main theme, truly one of the last brilliant theme songs. Bean's great, so are Tchéky Karyo and Gottfried John. Brosnan performs well, I'd say, as do Kitchen, Dench and Bond. There's a lot of tension, the camera work is excellent, Meddings' and Stears' achievements are wonderful and so on. Stop me, for I'm likely to spend the entire night writing down exactly how much I love this film. It helps that I was 13 when the film was released and it was the first Bond film of which I consciously experienced the route to its release. When I think 1995, I think happy thoughts, for I think GE. I adore this film - sue me.
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    @ Luds. Dare I say it Daylights isn't a masterpiece. I've seen it again recently, its a solid entertaining film but not a truly great one IMO.

    Saw this review recently from a fellow enthusiast. Sums it up quite nicely.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Quoting BAIN123: Dare I say it Daylights isn't a masterpiece. I've seen it again recently, its a solid film but not a truly great one.
    Watch TMWTGG - works great !! ;-)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Quoting Luds: To the Dalton enthusiasts, this is a crime as the movie was written specifically
    for him in mind but I don't know of GE with Dalton would have surpassed the
    masterpiece that is known as The Living Daylights.

    I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that a Daltonised GoldenEye (with some minor recasting; M Natalya & Trevelyan), could've been the best Dalton film. Sadly, we'll never know for certain. The line about all the martini's silencing the screams of the men Bond has killed just screams Dalton's Bond to me. It sounds off kilter aimed at Brosnan, his Bond was not a conflicted inner demon ridden Bond. Not to mention all that 'sexist mysogynist dinosaur' drek that spills from M's mouth. With that line, the castration of Bond had began. It may have been a bit hit, but GoldenEye was the beginning of the most creativly barren era of the series. With all honesty, GoldenEye is one of the Bonds where I could easily go years without watching again. Unless i'm having a Bondathon, in which case, it's not a Bond I look forward to.
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 50
    Quoting DaltonCraig007:
    Terrible, terrible outing. It basicly feels like a
    box-ticking hit-list of the most known Bond cliches.

    Bond doesn't get any assignment before the 40 minutes mark.

    the worst Bond performance of all time
    what a wuss.
    DaltonCraig007=No limits, no fears, no substitutes (and no biased nostalgia either, for that matter). Agreed 100%. Bond as a pussified, part-American "new man"... since when did that ever pass muster? :-S
  • Posts: 11,189
    (:| (:| (:| (:| (:|
  • Posts: 60
    Quoting MajorDSmythe: Not to mention all that 'sexist mysogynist dinosaur' drek that spills from M's mouth. With that line, the castration of Bond had began.
    Well stated =D>
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