There's something about that The Man with the Golden Gun (1974)!

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just finished watching it (again). So much fun. OMG Goodnight's bikini...

    Looks like it's time for you to bust out your copy of The Wicker Man, @chrisisall. ;-)

    In response to your list:

    He looks amazing in it.
    True. Moore does. Although I prefer his Bondian looks in TSWLM and MR. He seems more confident in the role too in those.

    It has a kickarse song.
    I absolutely agree. The song deserves much more credit than it usually gets.

    It has Barry music.
    And not just that. Given what little time Barry had to complete the score, I'd say he did a fantastic job. The score always sets the right mood. There's even a hint of tension at times.

    It has bizarre within some kind of reason.
    This is what I struggle with most. I don't mind 'bizarre', but in this case it feels more like problems with the script that resulted, unintentionally, in some bizarre qualities. Not sure that's a compliment; more of a happy side-effect of sorts.

    It has amazing model work explosions.
    True. And often overlooked because it's not your typical "big spectacle Bond".

    It has Britt Ekland.
    "Fair maid, white and red,
    Comb you smooth and stroke your head"

    Yes, Britt was cute in the film. However, I don't think she was used as anything more than a tight-bikini model. It saddens me that the character of Goodnight was given so little to do, considering how sweet and practically 'maternal' she came off in the book. Now, I'm not suggesting that Moore's Bond needed a mother figure looking after him. Still, after her promising introduction in the film, the cinematic Goodnight has nothing to contribute anymore. The film doesn't take her seriously, exemplified most awkwardly by pushing her in the closest while Bond (presumably) makes love to Andrea. Bond, furthermore, has her tag along but hardly notices her. Her presence on Scaramanga's island almost doesn't affect him. She's his pastime between more important moments. I'm not drawing the feminist card; just give the poor girl something to do. I have confidence that Britt could have pulled it off. Now, she's mostly dead weight in the film. Sexy dead weight. But dead weight nevertheless.

    It has Christopher Lee.
    Yes, but as with Walken, I regret that the role didn't fully deserve the actor's talents. The film version of Scaramanga lets me down. The character needed more oomph. He works for me as the mirror image of Bond, but some of the maniacal qualities that Fleming dealt him weren't coming through. It makes sense that you have Lee play a villain. I'm just not convinced this was the perfect match.

    It does not have disco music.
    It does not have a Tarzan Yell.
    It does not take place in space.
    It does not feature a villain's death as a balloon popping.

    Well, neither do most other Bond films.

    It is not a retread of Goldfinger or YOLT.
    Fair enough. But neither are LALD, FYEO and OP, and those films work far better than TMWTGG for me.

    Overall, it's a film I enjoy -- then again, I enjoy all Bonds -- but it should have gone through more rewrites still. The solar technology plot fails to blend in with the rest of the story, in my opinion. Some of the clownish stuff is just too much. Some things just 'happen'; there's no obvious reason why. It was a good start, but another year of production could have done this film many favours.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I love that little exchange between M and Bond.

    M "Nobody knows where he is or what he looks like. So I think it's fair to assume he has the edge on you. Don't you agree? That's all double-o-7"
    Bond walks away and turns back.
    Bond "If I found him first sir that might change the situation."
    M "Dramatically, wouldn't you say?" M smiles, Bond smiles.
    M "Good day Bond." M returns to his paperwork, Bond smiles and leaves the office.

    I love how Lee and Moore play it. God I hope the new fella and the M can return to this type of reporting relationship. More like what Fleming wrote.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just finished watching it (again). So much fun. OMG Goodnight's bikini...

    Looks like it's time for you to bust out your copy of The Wicker Man, @chrisisall. ;-)

    In response to your list:

    He looks amazing in it.
    True. Moore does. Although I prefer his Bondian looks in TSWLM and MR. He seems more confident in the role too in those.

    It has a kickarse song.
    I absolutely agree. The song deserves much more credit than it usually gets.

    It has Barry music.
    And not just that. Given what little time Barry had to complete the score, I'd say he did a fantastic job. The score always sets the right mood. There's even a hint of tension at times.

    It has bizarre within some kind of reason.
    This is what I struggle with most. I don't mind 'bizarre', but in this case it feels more like problems with the script that resulted, unintentionally, in some bizarre qualities. Not sure that's a compliment; more of a happy side-effect of sorts.

    It has amazing model work explosions.
    True. And often overlooked because it's not your typical "big spectacle Bond".

    It has Britt Ekland.
    "Fair maid, white and red,
    Comb you smooth and stroke your head"

    Yes, Britt was cute in the film. However, I don't think she was used as anything more than a tight-bikini model. It saddens me that the character of Goodnight was given so little to do, considering how sweet and practically 'maternal' she came off in the book. Now, I'm not suggesting that Moore's Bond needed a mother figure looking after him. Still, after her promising introduction in the film, the cinematic Goodnight has nothing to contribute anymore. The film doesn't take her seriously, exemplified most awkwardly by pushing her in the closest while Bond (presumably) makes love to Andrea. Bond, furthermore, has her tag along but hardly notices her. Her presence on Scaramanga's island almost doesn't affect him. She's his pastime between more important moments. I'm not drawing the feminist card; just give the poor girl something to do. I have confidence that Britt could have pulled it off. Now, she's mostly dead weight in the film. Sexy dead weight. But dead weight nevertheless.

    It has Christopher Lee.
    Yes, but as with Walken, I regret that the role didn't fully deserve the actor's talents. The film version of Scaramanga lets me down. The character needed more oomph. He works for me as the mirror image of Bond, but some of the maniacal qualities that Fleming dealt him weren't coming through. It makes sense that you have Lee play a villain. I'm just not convinced this was the perfect match.

    It does not have disco music.
    It does not have a Tarzan Yell.
    It does not take place in space.
    It does not feature a villain's death as a balloon popping.

    Well, neither do most other Bond films.

    It is not a retread of Goldfinger or YOLT.
    Fair enough. But neither are LALD, FYEO and OP, and those films work far better than TMWTGG for me.

    Overall, it's a film I enjoy -- then again, I enjoy all Bonds -- but it should have gone through more rewrites still. The solar technology plot fails to blend in with the rest of the story, in my opinion. Some of the clownish stuff is just too much. Some things just 'happen'; there's no obvious reason why. It was a good start, but another year of production could have done this film many favours.

    I guess I love the off-the-cuff/ imperfect feeling the film gives me... LALD was just too slick, and TSWLM was just too big (and it had Jaws, phuyuck!).
    Also, I've never seen The Wicker Man! Based upon your liking of it I just ordered a Blu ray of it- the final cut. Thanks!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2 Posts: 24,179
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just finished watching it (again). So much fun. OMG Goodnight's bikini...

    Looks like it's time for you to bust out your copy of The Wicker Man, @chrisisall. ;-)

    In response to your list:

    He looks amazing in it.
    True. Moore does. Although I prefer his Bondian looks in TSWLM and MR. He seems more confident in the role too in those.

    It has a kickarse song.
    I absolutely agree. The song deserves much more credit than it usually gets.

    It has Barry music.
    And not just that. Given what little time Barry had to complete the score, I'd say he did a fantastic job. The score always sets the right mood. There's even a hint of tension at times.

    It has bizarre within some kind of reason.
    This is what I struggle with most. I don't mind 'bizarre', but in this case it feels more like problems with the script that resulted, unintentionally, in some bizarre qualities. Not sure that's a compliment; more of a happy side-effect of sorts.

    It has amazing model work explosions.
    True. And often overlooked because it's not your typical "big spectacle Bond".

    It has Britt Ekland.
    "Fair maid, white and red,
    Comb you smooth and stroke your head"

    Yes, Britt was cute in the film. However, I don't think she was used as anything more than a tight-bikini model. It saddens me that the character of Goodnight was given so little to do, considering how sweet and practically 'maternal' she came off in the book. Now, I'm not suggesting that Moore's Bond needed a mother figure looking after him. Still, after her promising introduction in the film, the cinematic Goodnight has nothing to contribute anymore. The film doesn't take her seriously, exemplified most awkwardly by pushing her in the closest while Bond (presumably) makes love to Andrea. Bond, furthermore, has her tag along but hardly notices her. Her presence on Scaramanga's island almost doesn't affect him. She's his pastime between more important moments. I'm not drawing the feminist card; just give the poor girl something to do. I have confidence that Britt could have pulled it off. Now, she's mostly dead weight in the film. Sexy dead weight. But dead weight nevertheless.

    It has Christopher Lee.
    Yes, but as with Walken, I regret that the role didn't fully deserve the actor's talents. The film version of Scaramanga lets me down. The character needed more oomph. He works for me as the mirror image of Bond, but some of the maniacal qualities that Fleming dealt him weren't coming through. It makes sense that you have Lee play a villain. I'm just not convinced this was the perfect match.

    It does not have disco music.
    It does not have a Tarzan Yell.
    It does not take place in space.
    It does not feature a villain's death as a balloon popping.

    Well, neither do most other Bond films.

    It is not a retread of Goldfinger or YOLT.
    Fair enough. But neither are LALD, FYEO and OP, and those films work far better than TMWTGG for me.

    Overall, it's a film I enjoy -- then again, I enjoy all Bonds -- but it should have gone through more rewrites still. The solar technology plot fails to blend in with the rest of the story, in my opinion. Some of the clownish stuff is just too much. Some things just 'happen'; there's no obvious reason why. It was a good start, but another year of production could have done this film many favours.

    I guess I love the off-the-cuff/ imperfect feeling the film gives me... LALD was just too slick, and TSWLM was just too big (and it had Jaws, phuyuck!).
    Also, I've never seen The Wicker Man! Based upon your liking of it I just ordered a Blu ray of it- the final cut. Thanks!

    @chrisisall
    Please share your thoughts on The Wicker Man afterwards. I do hope you find Willow's Song, and Britt's nocturnal dance, as haunting as I do. (And don't mind the Cage remake, unless you enjoy Nic Cage in everything.)

    Re TSWLM being too big: the film is big, yes, but too big? I'm happy that we can "shop" for all kinds of Bonds, depending on our mood. Some days I like suspense thrillers such as FRWL, other days I prefer a more fantasy driven OTT Bond like TSWLM or MR. 😉
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    My dad and I watched TMWTGG last night. We both enjoyed it for a number reasons. Namely Sir Christopher Lee as Scaramanga. Some things haven't aged well, Bond slapping Andrea and Goodnight around, and playing Three's company with both. Also, by today's standards, no way would someone like Sheriff JW Pepper be a Democrat! Nick Nack is fun, and is used just the right amount. One thing that I feel that is overlooked with TMWTGG is the realism. It could with a few adjustments take place in the real world. The MI6 conversations are unique, and M and Bond's tense briefings were a sign of things to come, particularly with the Judi Dench and Ralph Fiennes versions. The material arts scenes are a mixed bag for me, the buildup and tension did not pay off. In terms of Guy Hamilton's directing job, I would place this third, above DAF. I wish that Tom Mackiewicz's version of the script was used more. Bond vs Scaramanga as personal enemies could have humanized the characters more. Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed. Ironically, it could still work as a modern day, real world problem. I'd say Maibaum should have sat this one out, particularly because of his criticism of Christopher Lee's portrayal, saying he played Scaramanga as a spoiled child. The performance was great as it was. I'm sure Jack Palance also would have been great, in particular if the novel was faithfully adapted. The literary Scaramanga is easy to picture Jack Palance in the role. The sugar cane subplot, the train ride and Bond's shooting of M still could great modern day plot points in a future Bond movie. If the script had been written to focus on Bond vs Scaramanga, (and Guy Hamilton not directing), this could have a better received Bond adventure overall. I know Cubby and Harry fighting probably also didn't help, in more ways than one. So overall, a mixed bag, but a guilty pleasure of mine (both for Bond movies and mixed bag movies in general). However, with a great villain performance, and an early exposure to the world of James Bond make this a fun adventure, for both my dad and me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just finished watching it (again). So much fun. OMG Goodnight's bikini...

    Looks like it's time for you to bust out your copy of The Wicker Man, @chrisisall. ;-)

    In response to your list:

    He looks amazing in it.
    True. Moore does. Although I prefer his Bondian looks in TSWLM and MR. He seems more confident in the role too in those.

    It has a kickarse song.
    I absolutely agree. The song deserves much more credit than it usually gets.

    It has Barry music.
    And not just that. Given what little time Barry had to complete the score, I'd say he did a fantastic job. The score always sets the right mood. There's even a hint of tension at times.

    It has bizarre within some kind of reason.
    This is what I struggle with most. I don't mind 'bizarre', but in this case it feels more like problems with the script that resulted, unintentionally, in some bizarre qualities. Not sure that's a compliment; more of a happy side-effect of sorts.

    It has amazing model work explosions.
    True. And often overlooked because it's not your typical "big spectacle Bond".

    It has Britt Ekland.
    "Fair maid, white and red,
    Comb you smooth and stroke your head"

    Yes, Britt was cute in the film. However, I don't think she was used as anything more than a tight-bikini model. It saddens me that the character of Goodnight was given so little to do, considering how sweet and practically 'maternal' she came off in the book. Now, I'm not suggesting that Moore's Bond needed a mother figure looking after him. Still, after her promising introduction in the film, the cinematic Goodnight has nothing to contribute anymore. The film doesn't take her seriously, exemplified most awkwardly by pushing her in the closest while Bond (presumably) makes love to Andrea. Bond, furthermore, has her tag along but hardly notices her. Her presence on Scaramanga's island almost doesn't affect him. She's his pastime between more important moments. I'm not drawing the feminist card; just give the poor girl something to do. I have confidence that Britt could have pulled it off. Now, she's mostly dead weight in the film. Sexy dead weight. But dead weight nevertheless.

    It has Christopher Lee.
    Yes, but as with Walken, I regret that the role didn't fully deserve the actor's talents. The film version of Scaramanga lets me down. The character needed more oomph. He works for me as the mirror image of Bond, but some of the maniacal qualities that Fleming dealt him weren't coming through. It makes sense that you have Lee play a villain. I'm just not convinced this was the perfect match.

    It does not have disco music.
    It does not have a Tarzan Yell.
    It does not take place in space.
    It does not feature a villain's death as a balloon popping.

    Well, neither do most other Bond films.

    It is not a retread of Goldfinger or YOLT.
    Fair enough. But neither are LALD, FYEO and OP, and those films work far better than TMWTGG for me.

    Overall, it's a film I enjoy -- then again, I enjoy all Bonds -- but it should have gone through more rewrites still. The solar technology plot fails to blend in with the rest of the story, in my opinion. Some of the clownish stuff is just too much. Some things just 'happen'; there's no obvious reason why. It was a good start, but another year of production could have done this film many favours.

    I guess I love the off-the-cuff/ imperfect feeling the film gives me... LALD was just too slick, and TSWLM was just too big (and it had Jaws, phuyuck!).
    Also, I've never seen The Wicker Man! Based upon your liking of it I just ordered a Blu ray of it- the final cut. Thanks!

    @chrisisall
    Please share your thoughts on The Wicker Man afterwards. I do hope you find Willow's Song, and Britt's nocturnal dance, as haunting as I do. (And don't mind the Cage remake, unless you enjoy Nic Cage in everything.)

    Re TSWLM being too big: the film is big, yes, but too big? I'm happy that we can "shop" for all kinds of Bonds, depending on our mood. Some days I like suspense thrillers such as FRWL, other days I prefer a more fantasy driven OTT Bond like TSWLM or MR. 😉

    OTT that I like means DAD to me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    thedove wrote: »
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to; is this something I said recently?

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed.

    Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it has anything to do with anything else; it's just a random Macguffin, and worse: actually makes Bond and MI6 into the bad guys, weirdly. I think a decent MacGuffin should at least play into the themes the film is leaning into, but this film has such a great central hook of 'the world's greatest assassin' that I don't think it even needs a Macguffin.
    The weird thing is, the Solex plot even has a chance to pay off in Scaramanga's big laser gun, which could have been the whole reason for him wanting the Solex (he wants to assassinate Air Force One in mid air or the moon with it or something) but they throw it away with absolutely no purpose- it's a bit maddening!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 3 Posts: 4,629
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to; is this something I said recently?

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed.

    Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it has anything to do with anything else; it's just a random Macguffin, and worse: actually makes Bond and MI6 into the bad guys, weirdly. I think a decent MacGuffin should at least play into the themes the film is leaning into, but this film has such a great central hook of 'the world's greatest assassin' that I don't think it even needs a Macguffin.
    The weird thing is, the Solex plot even has a chance to pay off in Scaramanga's big laser gun, which could have been the whole reason for him wanting the Solex (he wants to assassinate Air Force One in mid air or the moon with it or something) but they throw it away with absolutely no purpose- it's a bit maddening!

    It had potential, is all I’m saying. I guess a racist sheriff is more important in TMWTGG than using other possible greatness, in a creative sense. It also proves that contrary to his ego, even Richard Maibaum could take creative mistakes. He probably blamed someone else for it’s failure as a plot point.

    Also, the plot twist with Andrea sending the golden bullet is a clever one.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    mtm wrote: »
    I'd say Bond goes it alone in OHMSS.

    Good point about Palance: he would have made a good version of the Scaramanga in the book.

    This is what I was referring to when you said you thought he went alone in OHMSS.

    To my mind this is the first but I can see how OHMSS might have some of the going alone angle. I think it was played up more in TMWTGG.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to; is this something I said recently?

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed.

    Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it has anything to do with anything else; it's just a random Macguffin, and worse: actually makes Bond and MI6 into the bad guys, weirdly. I think a decent MacGuffin should at least play into the themes the film is leaning into, but this film has such a great central hook of 'the world's greatest assassin' that I don't think it even needs a Macguffin.
    The weird thing is, the Solex plot even has a chance to pay off in Scaramanga's big laser gun, which could have been the whole reason for him wanting the Solex (he wants to assassinate Air Force One in mid air or the moon with it or something) but they throw it away with absolutely no purpose- it's a bit maddening!

    It had potential, is all I’m saying. I guess a racist sheriff is more important in TMWTGG than using other possible greatness, in a creative sense. It also proves that contrary to his ego, even Richard Maibaum could take creative mistakes. He probably blamed someone else for it’s failure as a plot point.

    Also, the plot twist with Andrea sending the golden bullet is a clever one.

    Yeah i really like that bit of the story; the first portion leading up to Gibson being shot is really nice.
    thedove wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'd say Bond goes it alone in OHMSS.

    Good point about Palance: he would have made a good version of the Scaramanga in the book.

    This is what I was referring to when you said you thought he went alone in OHMSS.

    To my mind this is the first but I can see how OHMSS might have some of the going alone angle. I think it was played up more in TMWTGG.

    Aha, got you. Well Bond tries to quit and is saved by Moneypenny and uses his leaves time to investigate Blofeld’s whereabouts with Draco’s help rather than MI6’s. You’re right about the ending too.
  • edited August 3 Posts: 1,340
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to; is this something I said recently?

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed.

    Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it has anything to do with anything else; it's just a random Macguffin, and worse: actually makes Bond and MI6 into the bad guys, weirdly. I think a decent MacGuffin should at least play into the themes the film is leaning into, but this film has such a great central hook of 'the world's greatest assassin' that I don't think it even needs a Macguffin.
    The weird thing is, the Solex plot even has a chance to pay off in Scaramanga's big laser gun, which could have been the whole reason for him wanting the Solex (he wants to assassinate Air Force One in mid air or the moon with it or something) but they throw it away with absolutely no purpose- it's a bit maddening!

    Well , LALD doesn't have a real plot. Solex thing at least is something.
  • edited August 3 Posts: 4,139
    Well, they all have plots… I guess the issue with TMWTGG is that it’s trying to craft a high stakes story (in this case a film about a villain holding a potential solution to the energy crisis for himself) while having a set up/plot that’s much more interesting (ie. Bond being sent the bullet, Scaramanga’s obsession with him, the role of Andrea etc). The Solex doesn’t feel like it’s what the story is about in that sense, but the film is trying to treat it as if it is. It should instead be a Bond film about these two ‘equals’ coming face to face. It’s as if the writers started out with the idea that TMWTGG would be about a villain stealing this device/potentially manipulating the energy crisis, and in the process of writing became much more interested in the Bond vs Scaramanga angle. For some reason then they didn’t write out the Solex or integrate it into a villain’s caper that would better suit the film.

    Not sure if that’s the best way of describing story vs plot or if that’s actually the issue with the film, but it’s the sense I get. LALD at least knows what it’s about.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yep, totally agree. Interesting point about them potentially starting with the Solex angle and becoming more interested in the assassin one. I guess they must’ve started with the title.
  • edited August 3 Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    Yep, totally agree. Interesting point about them potentially starting with the Solex angle and becoming more interested in the assassin one. I guess they must’ve started with the title.

    I actually don’t know how the Solex came about for this film. I guess it was relevant at the time, but I’m not sure if it was a thing that the producers wanted in there, or if there was a bit of a clash between Maibaum and Mankiewicz’s ideas that was never fully ironed out in final drafts. It feels like it’s a film of two different ideas though, and ultimately both are being diluted in order for one to accommodate the other.

    EDIT: just had a quick look at the wiki article for this film. Apparently Mankiewicz’s initial drafts were more about the Scaramanga vs Bond angle but he clashed with Hamilton and Maibaum was brought in. The rivalry/Bond’s equal idea was seemingly watered down. I guess as an alternative they used the Energy Crisis/Solex. So basically the opposite way round to my theory, haha.

    It does point to this being a film of two concepts that never quite work together. Shame as on their own both could be developed into cool Bond movies. They just don’t commit fully to either.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 3 Posts: 18,270
    Yes, that's what I was going to say. It was the other way around. I've read that in Steven Jay Rubin's The James Bond Films (1981). Maibaum and Mankiewicz rewrote each other's scripts from what I recall. I don't think they even met while writing for TMWTGG. I think Mankiewicz mentions that in his autobiography. I definitely agree that the Bond v Scaramanga plot was the stronger of the two and that the Solex energy crisis plot feels rather tacked on like an afterthought. I suppose it could be said that the source novel had the same problem with Bond sent to kill a deadly assassin combined with Scaramanga's plot to disrupt Western sugar supplies.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    This film could have benefited from the traditional 2 year gap. It might have given them more time to work through the script and tighten or focus the plot more. The rush to capitalize on LALD almost cost them the series or at least had them pause to reset.

    As the saying goes, "there is a good film in there." I think with some more time to polish things they would have had a better overall film.

    With these early 70's films we started to see that everyone knew who Bond was and he had this huge rep following him around. This seems to start with DAF and would continue through out Moore's run. Roger said that is what made some of this world so ridiculous that a spy would be that well known and he leaned into that when playing the character.

    Compared to FRWL and GF where it is alluded that even getting his double-o-7 required "sweating" agents, or opposite numbers in different organizations providing information. DAF we have a small time smuggler knowing who James Bond is and the producers seemed to give up on the spy angle of the character. We now had a popular agent known by many.
  • Posts: 4,139
    One thing I actually kinda like about TMWTGG is that Bond is being put in a situation and against people who know who he is. I always saw it as Bond having to go deep into that world of assassins, weapon manufacturers, and spies, where he even has a ‘reputation’ within that small circle. It could have been quite a tense concept, certainly one where Bond would have little control over certain things (the film kind of dips its toe into that idea too with Bond’s attempt to pose as Scaramanga failing).

    It’s something I’d love to see explored in a future Bond film. I think it would have more impact today.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 3 Posts: 16,383
    007HallY wrote: »
    One thing I actually kinda like about TMWTGG is that Bond is being put in a situation and against people who know who he is. I always saw it as Bond having to go deep into that world of assassins, weapon manufacturers, and spies, where he even has a ‘reputation’ within that small circle. It could have been quite a tense concept, certainly one where Bond would have little control over certain things (the film kind of dips its toe into that idea too with Bond’s attempt to pose as Scaramanga failing).

    It’s something I’d love to see explored in a future Bond film. I think it would have more impact today.

    Yes that's a cool idea, it would have been interesting to see that played up more or mentioned that it's something making the mission harder for Bond. I guess it doesn't seem that remarkable in one of Roger's films as he seems to be recognised everywhere he goes in most of his films.
  • Posts: 12,526
    mtm wrote: »
    How's this for wonderfully strange: a tour of an abandoned museum in Thailand dedicated to TMWTGG


    OMG!!!!
    Saw a number of things in there that are in my collection, totally gobsmacked to see all that precious memorabilia just abandoned! Very sad indeed, but fascinating to see. Thanks for sharing.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    In OHMSS @mtm are you referring to the climax when he enlists Draco's men?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to; is this something I said recently?

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Richard Maibaum adding the Solex power subplot was a good idea, but wasted and poorly executed.

    Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it has anything to do with anything else; it's just a random Macguffin, and worse: actually makes Bond and MI6 into the bad guys, weirdly. I think a decent MacGuffin should at least play into the themes the film is leaning into, but this film has such a great central hook of 'the world's greatest assassin' that I don't think it even needs a Macguffin.
    The weird thing is, the Solex plot even has a chance to pay off in Scaramanga's big laser gun, which could have been the whole reason for him wanting the Solex (he wants to assassinate Air Force One in mid air or the moon with it or something) but they throw it away with absolutely no purpose- it's a bit maddening!

    Sometimes a gun is just a gun. ;)
  • edited September 18 Posts: 1,340
    007HallY wrote: »
    Well, they all have plots… I guess the issue with TMWTGG is that it’s trying to craft a high stakes story (in this case a film about a villain holding a potential solution to the energy crisis for himself) while having a set up/plot that’s much more interesting (ie. Bond being sent the bullet, Scaramanga’s obsession with him, the role of Andrea etc). The Solex doesn’t feel like it’s what the story is about in that sense, but the film is trying to treat it as if it is. It should instead be a Bond film about these two ‘equals’ coming face to face. It’s as if the writers started out with the idea that TMWTGG would be about a villain stealing this device/potentially manipulating the energy crisis, and in the process of writing became much more interested in the Bond vs Scaramanga angle. For some reason then they didn’t write out the Solex or integrate it into a villain’s caper that would better suit the film.

    Not sure if that’s the best way of describing story vs plot or if that’s actually the issue with the film, but it’s the sense I get. LALD at least knows what it’s about.

    I believe that what is intended to be avoided is precisely what happened with LALD. It has nothing more to tell in the second hour.

    Solex means more plot and the story moves forward.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 18 Posts: 3,789
    007HallY wrote: »
    Well, they all have plots… I guess the issue with TMWTGG is that it’s trying to craft a high stakes story (in this case a film about a villain holding a potential solution to the energy crisis for himself) while having a set up/plot that’s much more interesting (ie. Bond being sent the bullet, Scaramanga’s obsession with him, the role of Andrea etc). The Solex doesn’t feel like it’s what the story is about in that sense, but the film is trying to treat it as if it is. It should instead be a Bond film about these two ‘equals’ coming face to face. It’s as if the writers started out with the idea that TMWTGG would be about a villain stealing this device/potentially manipulating the energy crisis, and in the process of writing became much more interested in the Bond vs Scaramanga angle. For some reason then they didn’t write out the Solex or integrate it into a villain’s caper that would better suit the film.

    Not sure if that’s the best way of describing story vs plot or if that’s actually the issue with the film, but it’s the sense I get. LALD at least knows what it’s about.

    I believe that what is intended to be avoided is precisely what happened with LALD. It has nothing more to tell in the second hour.

    Solex means more plot and the story moves forward.

    The Solex have been in the beginning of the film, it's about Gibson's case or whoever that missing agent was, the assassination plot was just a background, the thing is, those two plots could've been divided into separate villains, but it happened to be Scaramanga for both! Hence, the plot that should've been his, which is the Assassination plot was relegated to nothing because of the Solex that could've been better for a separate villain.

    You can have Bond investigating the Solex, but have Scaramanga and his Assassination plot distracting and keep getting in the way of his mission, then have Bond solve the Solex mission in the middle half and kill the villain for it, then focus on Scaramanga and Bond's Assassin for the final act.

    Some Bond films have subplots that didn't work: OP and TLD, because they've been meshed up with another, but in the case of TMWTGG, there's a potential for it to work.
  • edited September 18 Posts: 1,340
    well, I think it kinda worked. The real problem is that the movie doesn't have much action.

    That's why no one cares about LALD's plot and that's why OP has fans even with that messy script.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    There is precious little action in the movie as a whole. Some of the action that does take place has some dubious logic to it.

    I will never figure out why the three goons want to fight Bond in Saida's dressing room. I used to think they were goons from Hai Fat or Scaramanga but that makes no sense as Bond has just started on the trail. If they are workers from the club what did Bond do to antagonize them?

    We have Bond jumping into a car in a showroom and it magically has the keys in the model, further contrivance is Pepper is already in the car. My goodness is that a leap in logic. One wonders if AMC put a stipulation that the car mustn't be stolen from another person? Or that it has to start with their showroom?

    The boat chase is not exciting or even tense. There is an attempt for tension when the fuel line gets throttled but otherwise not much to see here.

    The duel at the end is serviceable. I would love to see an extended sequence with the beach start of the duel left intact.

    I don't get why Scaramanga would have his wax figure of Bond have a loaded PPK and that the PPK be removeable from the wax figure. The Cowboy, and Mafia don't have live ammo why would this figurine? Or do we think Bond scaled down into the depths of the funhouse to retrieve his gun and then make it to the wax figure? How would Bond know a wax figure of himself was even a part of the funhouse?

    This is all coming from someone who appreciates the film and enjoys the movie. LOL!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Would have been great if Scaramanga had come round the corner to see Bond in his pants, desperately pulling the trousers off a wax version of himself.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    mtm wrote: »
    Would have been great if Scaramanga had come round the corner to see Bond in his pants, desperately pulling the trousers off a wax version of himself.

    :) :) that would be classic! LOL!
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 682
    mtm wrote: »
    Would have been great if Scaramanga had come round the corner to see Bond in his pants, desperately pulling the trousers off a wax version of himself.

    Lucky for him he was wearing the same colour trousers with his sportscoat.
  • Posts: 1,986
    America tourist looking for an American car deal in Thailand makes perfect sense. Never mind the savings would be offset by the shipping.
  • Posts: 1,340
    CrabKey wrote: »
    America tourist looking for an American car deal in Thailand makes perfect sense. Never mind the savings would be offset by the shipping.

    The best writing in the series. That's what a racist would do in a foreign country.
    ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited September 19 Posts: 18,270
    CrabKey wrote: »
    America tourist looking for an American car deal in Thailand makes perfect sense. Never mind the savings would be offset by the shipping.

    The dictionary definition of going half way around the world for a short cut. It's a very contrived scene that, in lining up all the ducks neatly up in a row, stretches credulity to breaking point.
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