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Dominic Greene as a villain in QoS?

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  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    SaintMark wrote:
    I must admit that I do support JSW opinion in this, if you have only seen a few 007 movies you cannot really judge a movie like QoB in the series.

    haha I can't win :)

    Seems people claim I don't have a right to like OR dislike a Bond film!

    I think ultimately, the longer a series goes on for, the fewer people will have watched every film (or in this case, every book too). A film should be able to stand up on its own merit and should be able to stand up at the time it was released.

    I just don't buy this stuff that unless you've seen vast swathes of Bond films, you can't judge one specific one. If that's true, perhaps you should tell about 80-90% of the people rating them on IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes who are users (and maybe even a fair number of the critics, particularly the ones who aren't British).

    A good film is a good film (to you) and a bad film is a bad film (to you). If you enjoy or don't enjoy a film, that's your own experience and you have every right to express it without being confronted, attacked or marginalized.

    I do understand the POV you two express, as I express it about other series that I do know a bit better than Bond, but it feels very unfair and victimizing for the person on the receiving end, PARTICULARLY if what they are actually expressing is a POSITIVE opinion and not negative.

    Anyway, I won't say more on this as I think time is better spent enjoying things as opposed to debating the validity of one's enjoyment!! :)
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Calm down, I find Quantum of Bourne a terrible movie that died on the editingtable and should never have been filmed without a finished script. Heck even DC says that QoB should have been halted instead of going forward.

    QoB gets the same mystical treatment as SF, because they like DC the movies must be great.

    That said I have all books by Ian Fleming, Gardner, Benson, Amis, Deaver & Faulkner.
    Have the 007 SE dvd series & the 007 UE dvd series complete, all soundtracks a few comics and some books on the subject of 007 movies and Ian Fleming. I have seen every 007 movie in cinema including CR'67 & NSNA.

    And even I have a taste that says that I like the TD & DC era least in the annals of 007 movies. So I generally have disagreements with the current fans of 007.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    SaintMark wrote:
    Calm down, I find Quantum of Bourne a terrible movie that died on the editingtable and should never have been filmed without a finished script. Heck even DC says that QoB should have been halted instead of going forward.

    QoB gets the same mystical treatment as SF, because they like DC the movies must be great.

    That said I have all books by Ian Fleming, Gardner, Benson, Amis, Deaver & Faulkner.
    Have the 007 SE dvd series & the 007 UE dvd series complete, all soundtracks a few comics and some books on the subject of 007 movies and Ian Fleming. I have seen every 007 movie in cinema including CR'67 & NSNA.

    And even I have a taste that says that I like the TD & DC era least in the annals of 007 movies. So I generally have disagreements with the current fans of 007.

    I agree that the production should have been stopped if the script wasn't ready when filming commenced, but it doesn't usually work out that way in the movie biz. Commitments had been made by everyone involved for the allotted time period of the production, and no doubt some had commitments to other projects that a delayed production could have interfered with. Then you have even more issues replacing people. In hindsight it would have been better to delay it but obviously no one involved agrees with us on this.

    I think you are generalizing quite a bit here otherwise. Yes there are fans here who got interested because of Craig, but from what I've read not very many of them are hanging on Dan's nads to the point of being oblivious to faults within his films, especially with QOS. Many of them recognize what went wrong, but then there were things that went right that you never acknowledge either. The key elements that tie CR and QOS together were there in comparison to the finale of OHMSS and the DAF, which were hardly acknowledged.

    There are many long time fans here who appreciate this era, including the original ones. I'm thinking more of us appreciate TD and DC a whole lot more than the Brozzer.



  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Hm, strange.

    Well erm, I still love it!

    I would have loved to have seen how good it would have been with another year or so of TLC! ^_^
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    I really don't understand why QoS gets such a hard time. I agree it's a bit diluted compared to Casino Royale, but I really see very few truly negative qualities with it. I adored the film overall.

    But each to their own :)
    Meanwhile, there are quite a few other Bond films you should get round to watching when you get 5 minutes to spare -

    FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM, FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK.

    Then your opinion on QoS can carry a bit more weight around here.....

    ahem* where is GE?
  • AliAli
    Posts: 319
    I let out a small laugh when I read JSW had included DAF in the list. I watched the CR/QoS duo last week and decided to watch DAF last night while my other half was out. I was especially interested because I just finished the novel....and wished I hadn't. I'd forgotten just how rubbish it was! I'm not Sean's biggest fan but I can understand why he seemed bored and disassociated with the entire production. The middle act, especially, was painful to watch. As for all the stupid Blofeld cloning, it felt like a bad episode of Men From U.N.C.L.E.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 2013 Posts: 6,302
    I think the problem with Greene was the writers' strike. Haggis didn't get to finish the script. The Bond/Mathis scenes seemed a lot more developed; it wouldn't surprise me if Haggis finished those first because he had already figured out their dynamic in CR.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,120
    echo wrote:
    I think the problem with Greene was the writers' strike. Haggis didn't get to finish the script. The Bond/Mathis scenes seemed a lot more developed; it wouldn't surprise me if Haggis finished those first because he had already figured out their dynamic in CR.

    He seemed somewhat undercooked. That said, I think Mathieu Amalric's acting was flawless and Greene gave some of the best lines of the movie. His ''we deal with the left, the right, with dictators and liberators'' reminded me of the SPECTRE of old, and especially Dr No's line about East and West.
  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    Awful exposition usually gets edited out of Bond film. Lookat the deleted scenes of TND about Carver's history in the back of the limo. Dreadful stuff, also the chat with Elekctra in the oil fields. But in QoS the Wade Purvis debacle goes ahead, tons of waffle and rubbish about a woman who has nearly been killed making a beeline for the very bloke who has tried to off her, to talk him around! While Bond pouts and poses on his bike outside being really inconspicuous! Tripe.

    So yeah, there's that, but if Greene doesn't have a big plan, you have to hate him on a viscereal level - but there's little chance for personal interaction between him and Bond, or him and the audience.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Hm, I think QoS outperformed all of the Brosnan Bonds with the exception of GoldenEye on IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes though didn't it? As far as I know?

    It really isn't as bad as people often portray IMO. However I think it gets backlash because it's nestled in between CR and SF, both of which tend to be far more positively received.

    The opera house scene is among my favourite I've ever seen though - it's just so dramatic and stylish! Feels very polished to me...
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited February 2013 Posts: 3,494
    hoppimike wrote:
    Hm, I think QoS outperformed all of the Brosnan Bonds with the exception of GoldenEye on IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes though didn't it? As far as I know?

    It really isn't as bad as people often portray IMO. However I think it gets backlash because it's nestled in between CR and SF, both of which tend to be far more positively received.

    The opera house scene is among my favourite I've ever seen though - it's just so dramatic and stylish! Feels very polished to me...

    Good input Mike. I know you were speaking of ratings and reviews, but overall I prefer QOS fairly easily to both TWINE and obviously DAD as far as enjoyment. But I'd still take GE and TND. I also agree QOS isn't as bad as it's most fervent detractors believe, but I wouldn't say it's just because it's nestled between two superior films. I think it's issues speak for themselves.

    One thing many people, even those who don't care for the film, won't complain about is the Bregenz opera house. It is dramatic, stylish, and Arnold's music melded with Tosca adds another great dimension to it. Scenes like this and a few others are why I can't completely dislike QOS, it definitely got it right in the end as far as resolving the story questions following CR and those points are it's saving graces.


  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    edited February 2013 Posts: 290
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    Hm, I think QoS outperformed all of the Brosnan Bonds with the exception of GoldenEye on IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes though didn't it? As far as I know?

    It really isn't as bad as people often portray IMO. However I think it gets backlash because it's nestled in between CR and SF, both of which tend to be far more positively received.

    The opera house scene is among my favourite I've ever seen though - it's just so dramatic and stylish! Feels very polished to me...

    Good input Mike. I know you were speaking of ratings and reviews, but overall I prefer QOS fairly easily to both TWINE and obviously DAD as far as enjoyment. But I'd still take GE and TND. I also agree QOS isn't as bad as it's most fervent detractors believe, but I wouldn't say it's just because it's nestled between two superior films. I think it's issues speak for themselves.

    One thing many people, even those who don't care for the film, won't complain about is the Bregenz opera house. It is dramatic, stylish, and Arnold's music melded with Tosca adds another great dimension to it. Scenes like this and a few others are why I can't completely dislike QOS, it definitely got it right in the end as far as resolving the story questions following CR and those points are it's saving graces.

    Yeah I loved the story in QoS and the way it tied up the loose ends in Casino and elaborated on Quantum, etc.

    I have probably said this before even in this thread but I loved the cultural diversity in the film. The fantastic range of locations and even the presentation with the styled font, etc, added SO much polish to the film for me and made it feel captivating and immersive.

    Just my experience anyway.

    Maybe I just like travel. lol ^^

    EDIT -- On another note... I need this lapel pin...

    Quantum_Lapel_Pin.png

    http://www.utopiabase.com/movie-themes/movie-memorabilia/007-james-bond/qos-q-lapel-pin-007-james-bond.html
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I don't really understand the hatred QoS attracts, but then I don't get what people like so much about SF. QoS perhaps suffered from the script not being finalised but my understanding is Forster just changed a lot of stuff any way. I think he just does that. I don't think the screenplay is actually all that bad. It's god some decent enough scenes. Bond feels like the same charcter as in CR whereas in SF he seems to have completely changed.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't really understand the hatred QoS attracts, but then I don't get what people like so much about SF. QoS perhaps suffered from the script not being finalised but my understanding is Forster just changed a lot of stuff any way. I think he just does that. I don't think the screenplay is actually all that bad. It's god some decent enough scenes. Bond feels like the same character as in CR whereas in SF he seems to have completely changed.

    I find it almost amusing that you and others have this thought about the change in Bond's character and don't like it, and yet most long time fans don't need an explanation. Truly baffling.

    Now I'm not going to get into the debate on CR/QOS being a reboot as opposed to the story of Bond origins, that's a whole other subject. But the CR/QOS story arc acknowledges it as a origin story to a solid degree I find impossible to gloss over in favor of the reboot theory. Bond starts out as a newly promoted agent. A reckless, ruthless, pitbull of a killing machine still learning on the job. But the Bond in SF is much more the character fans recognize and the kind of Bond we've come to expect all these years. It's the same Bond we get at the end of QOS, he knows when to capture and when to kill. He's become a true professional. Suave, sophisticated, well dressed, and nearly everything we expect. With more of that to come, I would expect. The Bond of CR and the earlier parts of QOS, just like Vesper, is a person of the past.

  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    To be fair, I think that Connery in GF is a different guy, slightly, to how he is in the first two films, same goes for Moore of course in his third. But with Craig, he's even more along the line, seeing as it's suggested that many years have passed, he's gone from the dawn of his career to the twilight.
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    NapoleonPlural wrote:
    To be fair, I think that Connery in GF is a different guy, slightly, to how he is in the first two films, same goes for Moore of course in his third. But with Craig, he's even more along the line, seeing as it's suggested that many years have passed, he's gone from the dawn of his career to the twilight.

    hm, perhaps that explains it a bit yeah. I prefer the dawn. lol
  • LicenceRevokedLicenceRevoked
    Posts: 204
    My theory is that Quantum is similar to SPECTRE and wheras SPECTRE used numbers , Quantum uses colors, so Dominic GREENE and Mr. WHITE. Wont be supprised if we see a Mr. Red or Mr. Black in a future film - just a theory. I found Greene quite menacing actually, more terrifying to me than say Silva or even LeChiffre. Silva was a psycho, LeChiffe was just a scared man, but Greene barely hides his menace and he looks like he could go off at any second more so than the other two. I found Elvi- ah actually just forget about him...
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    My theory is that Quantum is similar to SPECTRE and wheras SPECTRE used numbers , Quantum uses colors, so Dominic GREENE and Mr. WHITE. Wont be supprised if we see a Mr. Red or Mr. Black in a future film - just a theory. I found Greene quite menacing actually, more terrifying to me than say Silva or even LeChiffre. Silva was a psycho, LeChiffe was just a scared man, but Greene barely hides his menace and he looks like he could go off at any second more so than the other two. I found Elvi- ah actually just forget about him...

    I agree actually. Greene is pretty dark and sinister O.O
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,120
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    My theory is that Quantum is similar to SPECTRE and wheras SPECTRE used numbers , Quantum uses colors, so Dominic GREENE and Mr. WHITE. Wont be supprised if we see a Mr. Red or Mr. Black in a future film - just a theory. I found Greene quite menacing actually, more terrifying to me than say Silva or even LeChiffre. Silva was a psycho, LeChiffe was just a scared man, but Greene barely hides his menace and he looks like he could go off at any second more so than the other two. I found Elvi- ah actually just forget about him...

    Interesting theory about the colours. But we know that Quantum has members whose names are not colours (Moishe Sharof, Guy Haines, and that Russian minister) and that Greene seems to have his real name. It is true that all of them could have noms de guerre that are colours, and that Dominic Greene's name could be a happy coincidence. I would love to see a Mr Black or a Mr Crimson as the main baddie. But wouldn't that make Quantum too much like Cluedo?
  • mikeninja008mikeninja008
    Posts: 90
    I really liked Mathieu Amalric as Green and thought he was a much better villain than Javier Bardem who is a scenery chewing disgruntled employee.

    I also thought the plot to control the water was more far reaching than just money it would also be a way to control and keep the puppets in line.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    mikeninja008 wrote:
    I really liked Mathieu Amalric as Green and thought he was a much better villain than Javier Bardem who is a scenery chewing disgruntled employee.

    I also thought the plot to control the water was more far reaching than just money it would also be a way to control and keep the puppets in line.

    That's hilarious, I must admit! :))
  • mikeninja008mikeninja008
    Posts: 90
    Why thank you
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    My theory is that Quantum is similar to SPECTRE and wheras SPECTRE used numbers , Quantum uses colors, so Dominic GREENE and Mr. WHITE. Wont be supprised if we see a Mr. Red or Mr. Black in a future film - just a theory. I found Greene quite menacing actually, more terrifying to me than say Silva or even LeChiffre. Silva was a psycho, LeChiffe was just a scared man, but Greene barely hides his menace and he looks like he could go off at any second more so than the other two. I found Elvi- ah actually just forget about him...

    This is an interesting idea, but where do Mr. Orange and Mr. Pink fit in haha
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    My theory is that Quantum is similar to SPECTRE and wheras SPECTRE used numbers , Quantum uses colors, so Dominic GREENE and Mr. WHITE. Wont be supprised if we see a Mr. Red or Mr. Black in a future film - just a theory. I found Greene quite menacing actually, more terrifying to me than say Silva or even LeChiffre. Silva was a psycho, LeChiffe was just a scared man, but Greene barely hides his menace and he looks like he could go off at any second more so than the other two. I found Elvi- ah actually just forget about him...

    This is an interesting idea, but where do Mr. Orange and Mr. Pink fit in haha

    Think how great a poster for the villain in Bond 24/25 would be?

    MR. BLACK

    Because he chose his own color
    B-)
  • mikeninja008mikeninja008
    Posts: 90
    The look of simmering rage Greene gives Bond at the Opera is fantastic
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    The saying goes "People rise to the level of their incompetence".
    Purvis and Wade after turning in supreb work on CR they devolved back to the shit writing. Nuff said.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,273
    Perhaps it all depends on who they hire to polish their scripts. No?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,120
    QOS was not a bad script, it was an unpolished, flawed, rushed script. Nuance.
  • DarioOnatoppDarioOnatopp
    Posts: 40
    I thought Dominic Greene came across as intended. A slimy, shadowy, lizard-like CEO. He just wasn't given much time to shine. I find it quite chilling when he starts swinging the axe at the end as well as the scene when he attempts to throw Camille off the balcony.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,120
    DarioOnatopp wrote:
    I thought Dominic Greene came across as intended. A slimy, shadowy, lizard-like CEO. He just wasn't given much time to shine. I find it quite chilling when he starts swinging the axe at the end as well as the scene when he attempts to throw Camille off the balcony.

    I think he was very well portrayed by Mathieu Amalric.
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