Anyone else feel like Brosnan was the "fall guy"?

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    Getafix wrote:
    dkem91 wrote:
    He states in an interview in China, while promoting The World is Not Enough, that he wanted to make a Bond film that broke away from the formula and explored James Bond as a human. It's on the blu ray, it gives the impression that he wasn't happy with his films and wanted to play a darker Bond, but as I said earlier, EON played it safe with him.

    I think EON (rightly) recognised Brozza's limitations.

    The DC era is ample evidence that they were more than happy to do something a bit different.

    I don't think their faith in Brosnan's ability had anything to with it. If they didn't believe he could do the role justice then they wouldn't have kept him or had him there in the first place. That, and the fact that he was still appearing in several other big movies during his tenure as Bond makes me find little merit in your statements. Brosnan is a much better actor and was far better in the role than you give him credit for.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    While I do agree with many of your opinions, i really wonder, what Brosnan has done to you,that you (and so many others) hate him that much. At least you (and anyone else) could give him Credit for saving the Franchise almost Single handedly (Since i guess you would agree that it weren't the scripts). I write this as someone who isn't one of Brosnans biggest Fans. TND remains the only Bond i haven't seen on the Big Screen, Since i was so fed up with GE and not to happy with the ones before,i just had -somewhat prematurely i guess - decided that the Bond Movies just had Lost it for me.

    You have to see my hatred (it's not really hatred - I actually quite like the guy when he's not playing Bond) from a historical perspective. TLD was my first cinema Bond and I thought it was brilliant and still do. For me Dalts was perfect for the times and brought the character believably up to date while still maintaining the heritage of the series. TLD IMO is the last truly classic Bond movie. Any way, as a massive Bond and Dalton fan I spent the years after LTK waiting for the next movie.

    It was a long wait!

    I was pretty disappointed when Dalton stepped down. I was never a huge fan of LTK (although I appreciate it more now than I used to) but was confident that his third film would be a cracker. And then this guy called Pierce Brosnan came along. I don't know where you're from but in the UK Brosnan was an almost total unknown. I remember at the time thinking who is this guy that the studio bosses are foisting in EON? To me he was a completely unknown entity. The first time I saw him on TV was whenn he appeared at the press launch sporting a daft beard (a warning of what was to come!) and an even cheesier grin. I can't say I immediately warmed to him, but at the same time I wanted a new Bond movie and trusted Cubby to make the right choice (I respected all of EON's previous casting decisions).

    So I went to see GE and could tell within minutes that both Brosnan and the film were complete stinkers. Gone was Dalton's edge and in its place was a quivering jelly of a Bond. And Brosnan most definitely did not have Roger's presence or charm. I am a loyal fan however and continued to go along and see the movies. I even thought TND was a great improvement and held out hope that things were getting back on track. Then came TWINE. By the time DAD was released I was not remotely surprised by how bad it was - I fully expected it.

    So for me, Brosnan not only stole the part from Dalts (okay that's being a little unfair), but his films wrecked what should have been a decade of cinema-going pleasure. I still wish Dalts had hung on for just one more, partly so that perhaps Brozza would by then have been seen as being too old.

    Any way, we now have a very good Bond in some not always so good movies, which is a marked improvement on what came before. Even when I dislike a DC Bond movie (as with SF), I appreciate what they were trying to do and only wish it had been done better. I now see the Brosnan era an unfortunate blip - fortunately receding ever further into the past.
  • Posts: 198
    The scripts are where it all starts, and actors can't elevate a sinking film, no matter their level of talent. The Brosnan era scripts had moments of supreme potential, like in DAD where we could have had a broken and tortured Bond deal with the possibility that he may have sold out his country while under duress, but no...Thanks to the script all that potential was thrown out the window and it was back to a one dimensional Bond off to the rescue again. And that's really a shame. Brosnan has talked before about playing a solemn, unforgiving and dark Bond, but thanks to the direction everyone else wanted Bond to go, he didn't get to. I think he would have done a great job as a no-nonsense Bond and it is sad that he lost his chance to do it.

    I agree. A darker Bond would've suited Brosnan perfectly. Just watch his movie The Fourth Protocol (with also the always fantastic Michael Caine). He's just fantastic in a role more silent, like Craig does nowadays (he doesn't talk too much).
  • Posts: 3,327
    I never read many of those interviews by Brosnan before. Very interesting reading.

    However, I do find his acting very poor throughout. He just overacts completely the whole time, whether its yelling, grimacing, doing ridiculous pointy gestures wth his outstretched hand and fingers, and I never once felt like his characterisation was anything remotely connected to Fleming.

    Bond was introvert, a complex, rather shy human being, slightly depressive at times, who rather hated violence.

    Brosnan's Bond was a cardboard super hero, slightly smug, arrogant, extrovert, cheesy, wimpish, and Brosnan himself brought these undesirable qualities to the role.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    One thing I certainly wouldn't describe Bond as was "shy". Shy implies Bond isn't confident. Quiet yes but not shy. I'm shy and I certainly don't consider myself to have much in common with Bond!

    Does Broz overact the entire time? I never found that and I've seen his movies many times. Sometimes yes but not all the time. I think you are summarising the infamous TWINE scene - which I admit was poor.

    I remember seeing an interview with Broz in which he describes Bond:

    "Pretty dark, obsessive, solitary...he's a survivalist...and he just lives for the job, he lives well! Lives with the greatest of confidence. Would you like him? You'd certainly feel his presence in the room thats for sure, you'd certainly feel you were in the company of a man who has lived"

    It may be brief but I think that's a fairly accurate description, of Bond.

    Brosnan isn't the greatest of actors but I think he had some great moments (which others have mentioned) and a stern expression that really suited the character.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Here are some compelling quotes straight from our dear Pierce, about how he viewed Bond. It is nice to see that he knew he was a part of a sinking ship at the end of it. I have bolded all the comments Pierce made about his time as Bond, the unbolded others concerning his views on the other Bond actors. Truly revealing stuff:

    "George is just an angry, old, pissed-off guy. He was never pissed-off Aussie who doesn`t know how to show his feminine side. I met him, and he`s got that kind of brittle edge to him."

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a charac
  • Posts: 1,492
    Here are some compelling quotes straight from our dear Pierce, about how he viewed Bond. It is nice to see that he knew he was a part of a sinking ship at the end of

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a character storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many overblown action films with no plot. That`s ludicrous. It`s so damn crazy! That`s absolutely sheer lunacy because "Casino Royale" is the blueprint of the Bond character. You find out more about James Bond in that book than in any of the other books. I would love to do a fifth Bond and then bow out, but if this last one is to be my last, then so be it. My contract is up. They can do it or not."

    "(on Casino Royale (2006)) I`m looking forward to it like we`re all looking forward to it. Daniel Craig is a great actor and he`s going to do a fantastic job."


    It never made it in to the papers, but I`ve had my face sliced open by a stuntman and a knee injury. But it`s all part and parcel of being Bond.

    "I think Daniel (Daniel Craig) is a very fine actor. These are rocky waters, but I think he
  • Posts: 1,492
    Here are some compelling quotes straight from our dear Pierce, about how he viewed Bond. It is nice to see that he knew he was a part of a sinking ship at the end of

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a character storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many overblown action films with no plot. That`s ludicrous. It`s so damn crazy! That`s absolutely sheer lunacy because "Casino Royale" is the blueprint of the Bond character. You find out more about James Bond in that book than in any of t
  • Posts: 1,492

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a character storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many overblown action films with no plot. That`s ludicrous. It`s so damn crazy! That`s absolutely sheer lunacy because "Casino Royale" is


    It never made it in to the papers, but I`ve had my face sliced open by a stuntman and a knee injury. But it`s all part and parcel of being Bond.

    "I think Daniel (Daniel Craig) is a very fine actor. These are rocky waters, but I think he will have the last laugh. You get twisted some way or another if you throw yourself into it. There`s going to be mishaps."

    "It would have been great to light up and smoke cigarettes, for instance. It would have been great to have the killing a little bit more real and not wussed down. It`s all rather bland. I remember doing a sex scene with Halle (Halle Berry) - I mean frolicking in the bed - and there was director Lee Tamahori right under the sheets with us. But the way we ended up doing it was almost like the old days in Hollywood - kissing the girl but still having your feet on the floor."%
  • Posts: 1,492

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a chacter storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many
    It never made it in to the papers, but I`ve had my face sliced open by a stuntman and a knee injury. But it`s all part and parcel of being Bond.

    "I think Daniel (Daniel Craig) is a very fine actor. These are rocky waters, but I think he will have the last laugh. You get twisted some way or another if you throw yourself into it. There`s going to be mishaps."
    %0
  • Posts: 1,492

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a character storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many overblown action films with no plot. That`s ludicrous. It`s so damn crazy! That`s absolutely sheer lunacy because "Casino Royale" is


    It never made it in to the papers, but I`ve had my face sliced open by a stuntman and a knee injury. But it`s all part and parcel of being Bond.

    "I think Daniel (Daniel Craig) is a very fine actor. These are rocky wat
  • Posts: 1,492

    "There was only one Bond for me, and it was Sean Connery. That made the role daunting."

    "Bond is an enigma. He`s smooth and bigger than life, but he`s vague as a personality. It`s a little like doing a period piece. Look, I`m thankful, the role made me an international star. I`ve been in the backwaters of Papua New Guinea and heard, 'Hey, Bond.'"

    "(March 2004) They`re too scared. They feel they have to top themselves in a genre which is just spectacle and a huge bang for your buck. But I think you can have your cake and eat it. You can have real character work, a chacter storyline and a thriller aspect and all kinds of quips, asides, the explosions and the women. We`re just saturated with too many
    It never made it in to the papers, but I`ve had my face sliced open by a stuntman and a knee injury. But it`s all part and parcel of being Bond.

    "I think Daniel (Daniel Craig) is a very fine actor. These are rocky waters, but I think he will have the last laugh. You get twisted some way or another if you throw yourself into it. There`s going to be mishaps."

    "It would have been great to light up and smoke cigarettes, for instance. It would have been great to have the killing a little bit more real and not wussed down. It`s all rather bland. I remember doing a sex scene with Halle (Halle Berry) - I mean frolicking in the bed - and there was director Lee Tamahori right under the sheets with us. But the way we ended up doing it was almost like the old days in Hollywood - kissing the girl but still having your feet on the floor."

    "(2005) A few years ago I would have said I could imagine playing James Bond in a more ferocious way. Like a sort of Quentin Tarantino character - but now, at 52, I am definitely too old."

    "I know most actors say otherwise, but I like sex scenes. Bond was supposed to be this great lover, but I always found the love scenes in those movies a little dull. It`s lovely to work out the fantasy of it all in celluloid and then go home to my wife."

    "(on the movie industry)There`s too many people in seats of power who just haven`t got a clue what they`re doing. They`re bean counters, and it just pisses me off because consequently our kids go to see crap movies."

    "(on Casino Royale (2006)) I always wanted to go back, because it`s the blueprint of Bond`s character. It`s the one where Fleming (Ian Fleming) really painted in the details of what Bond was about, so I was disappointed that it didn`t happen, but you can`t go around with that in your heart. It`s all such a game really, and you win some, you lose some, you`re there, you`re not there. Getting the part of Bond and playing the part of Bond was a blessing and a curse, which I think (Sean Connery) has spoken about, and I`m sure Daniel (Daniel Craig) is just getting the full taste of right now. So, you know, one can really only look at the blessings in life."

    I think that all the films I`ve ever made are personal, even James Bond, because it`s so much of myself, so much of who I am as a man and as an actor. You have to invest yourself in every character that you portray.

    "(on why he thinks he would have regretted winning the James Bond role in 1986) It`s a role better suited to someone who is in his 40s, old enough to have the confidence and the sophistication and strength to be able to stand there and just let the moment sit. Bond is a man with the greatest of confidence. And playing that takes practice. In 1986 I think I was 33 or something like that, and I still looked like a baby. Finally, I`m growing into this face of mine. That takes time."

    "(on George Lazenby) George seems to be an unhappy camper about Bond. He gets pissy and spits the dummy out. Tim (Timothy Dalton) was fantastic. He really had the balls to go out there and play it on the nose - Ian Fleming undiluted. But where were the laughs? Sean (Sean Connery) was brilliant, he played it dead on the money. And Roger (Roger Moore) really made it his own and went for the laughs. I think those two were the best."

    "I`ve been identified with James Bond or Thomas Crown for so long - suave, elegant, sophisticated men in suits. It`s like you`ve been giving the same performance for 20 years."[
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,492
    Apologies
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    actonsteve wrote:
    Apologies
    Fear not Steve, I don't think you ruined anyone's day or anything.
    I like Brosnan, his quotes are interesting.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I never realised @actonsteve was a such a fan of Brosnan! He does make some interesting points - well worth repeating!
  • Posts: 1,548
    I thought Lee Majors was the fall guy! (" I'm the unknown stuntman who made Eastwood such a star") lol!
  • Posts: 2,341
    I never once ever heard Brosnan reference Fleming in any of his interviews. He had no grasp on the character. All he knew was looking cool, shouting loudly in his feminine voice, animated gestures, pain face, and how to shoot machine guns.

    His performance was all very hollow and shallow, which must have had further influence on the scripts. When Dalton was Bond, extra effort went into trying to bring the scripts back to Fleming, mainly because Dalton had a desire to do that, and I feel the same has happened with Craig.

    Brosnan was only interested in a shallow cinematic interpretation, where he saw Bond as a super hero, not as a flawed human being. I doubt he's even read any of the novels.

    For that alone, he deserves every ounce of criticism that comes his way.

    You are spot on. Someone else once said that EON was "playing it safe" during the Brosnan age and I never understood why they chose this path. They had a very popular "people's choice" in Pierce Brosnan and should have pulled out all the stops but no, they gave us the weak lean years of 95-02.
    Brozza himself once admitted that he never felt that he "nailed the part" and I for one never knew who the hell his Bond was. If he had taken the time like Dalts and read the friggin novels maybe he would have had better insight into the character he was portraying.
    His films made boat load of money but I think they got worst after GE.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I thought Lee Majors was the fall guy! (" I'm the unknown stuntman who made Eastwood such a star") lol!

    The joke has been made. Move along.
  • OHMSS69 wrote:
    I never once ever heard Brosnan reference Fleming in any of his interviews. He had no grasp on the character. All he knew was looking cool, shouting loudly in his feminine voice, animated gestures, pain face, and how to shoot machine guns.

    His performance was all very hollow and shallow, which must have had further influence on the scripts. When Dalton was Bond, extra effort went into trying to bring the scripts back to Fleming, mainly because Dalton had a desire to do that, and I feel the same has happened with Craig.

    Brosnan was only interested in a shallow cinematic interpretation, where he saw Bond as a super hero, not as a flawed human being. I doubt he's even read any of the novels.

    For that alone, he deserves every ounce of criticism that comes his way.

    You are spot on. Someone else once said that EON was "playing it safe" during the Brosnan age and I never understood why they chose this path. They had a very popular "people's choice" in Pierce Brosnan and should have pulled out all the stops but no, they gave us the weak lean years of 95-02.
    Brozza himself once admitted that he never felt that he "nailed the part" and I for one never knew who the hell his Bond was. If he had taken the time like Dalts and read the friggin novels maybe he would have had better insight into the character he was portraying.
    His films made boat load of money but I think they got worst after GE.

    Couldn't agree more with both of you, every point you both make rings very true to me as well.

    Of course Barb and Mike would say he was a great Bond, he made them and every shareholder a boatload of money. In that respect the hire was very successful. But to call Brozzer the fall guy implies that none of it was his fault, and that's simply not true. Little to no effort went into his character after the first two films, many want to entirely blame the scripts and give him a pass because they love the guy but when you take off the rose colored glasses, what you find is Pierce coasting after 1997 and content to tick the boxes. Whereas both Dalton and Craig were continually trying to add dimension and grow the character within the boundaries set down by Fleming.



  • Another important point is that although Brosnan said that he *wanted* to do a darker Bond it doesn't mean that he would have had the acting talent to actually *do* it...
  • TOFANA007TOFANA007 Banned
    Posts: 89
    You god$&#@ right Brosnan is the fall guy... you know behind the scenes in hollywood, the chaos the corruption. two words the illuminati. the real power. The real powers behind Hollywood are SNAKES and they will take out anyone in their way
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    Eon Productions has publicly supported Brosnan, but come on! It's not like they would ever say anything critical of their actors. We on the other hand can be open and honest about our opinions about the Brosnan era.

    The thing that really upsets me about this forum is that Brosnan era seems to have a protected status. Why can't you call a spade a spade and just say the Brosnan era sucked. The scripts were atrocious. This is true. I believe the scripts contributed to the crappy films more than Brosnan's acting ability and lack of respect of Ian Flemming's James Bond character. Brosnan lays some of the blame. Judi Dench's M for example was sublime. Even with the sh*tty scripts of the Brosnan era, she played the role of M to a tee, and left a legacy all the way to Skyfall.

    However there are those on this forum which lay all the blame on the scripts. I disagree. It's the scripts being used as the "fall guy" by the adamant Brosnan supporters.

    I suspect that GoldenEye and the other Brosnan films may have been the first introduction to the Bond series for some. If you support Brosnan for that reason, I kind of understand. I'm 28, and while that would put me in the Brosnan era myself, I was fortunate enough that the first Bond movie was from Russia with Love followed by Goldfinger when I was a kid. (On a funny note, I thought the chess player was James Bond for the longest time until I re-watched the movie in my teens. lol)

    Anyway, you can ban or delete my posts if you want for speaking the truth about the Brosnan era films. I said my peace.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    CIA wrote:
    Why can't you call a spade a spade and just say the Brosnan era sucked.

    Damn. My gun's jammed.
    :))
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    chrisisall wrote:
    CIA wrote:
    Why can't you call a spade a spade and just say the Brosnan era sucked.

    Damn. My gun's jammed.
    :))

    It's a DUD :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    CIA wrote:
    It's a DUD :))

    Brosnan rocked in his time. I still love his first three, and if my virtual gun hadn't jammed, you'd be taking damage for your diss on him bro. :))
  • Posts: 161
    chrisisall wrote:
    CIA wrote:
    It's a DUD :))

    Brosnan rocked in his time.



    [-X

    No Brosnan looked more like a male model then a damn secret agent, he never rocked once in a Bond film. I walked out of all his Bond films never once thinking he was cool or suave. Connery,Dalton and Craig pulled it off making you want to be Bond with Brosnan i wanted the bad guys to kill Bond cause he was awful.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    lahaine wrote:
    with Brosnan i wanted the bad guys to kill Bond cause he was awful.

    My gun's still jammed. *throws a snowball*
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    Another important point is that although Brosnan said that he *wanted* to do a darker Bond it doesn't mean that he would have had the acting talent to actually *do* it...

    Doesn't mean he wouldn't have had it, either.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Another important point is that although Brosnan said that he *wanted* to do a darker Bond it doesn't mean that he would have had the acting talent to actually *do* it...

    Doesn't mean he wouldn't have had it, either.
    Precisely.
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