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Comments
Mathis definetly should've lived though. I thought he was brilliant and I preferred him to the new Felix.
Exactly; I would do anything to ensure Mathis was saved, no matter how many action scenes would have to be packed in. His death is the thing I hate most about the film.
Maybe a few crooked cops, but who cares? Mathis would still be an ally.
I don't think QoS is wall to wall action at all. When I watch it I find a good mix of both depth/dialogue and action.
The problem with the action in QoS isn't that it's wall to wall, although I'd say there's way too much, it's that most of it is linear and quite frankly, boring. The best action in the whole movie is the intro, and the end fight. That leaves a huge chunk of pretty one note stuff. I genuinely think if Forster hadn't attacked the film with his 'elements' theory and allowed the film to breath, we'd have had something much better. When I watch it, it reminds me structurally of Rocky IV. Where that had montages stitched together with some exposition, QoS does the same but with action.
It isn't wall to wall but I think there's too much of it for a Bond movie and the action isn't even particularly good most of the time, I think the editing ruins it.
true fact: Expendables 2 is a better actionmovie. O:-)
Another fun fact: Expendables 2 wasn't trying to be anything else, QoS goes beyond action.
We're getting off topic here but I'd really like to weigh in on this.
I think QOS tries to go beyond action but it ultimately fails. I agree with Mark Kermode on that, there are some good scenes but then the film loses it's nerve and quickly goes back to crash bang smash mode. This would be fine if most of the crash bang smashing wasn't butchered by bad editing.
Quantum Of Solace seems like it wants to be this arty political movie but I didn't think succeeded. I can enjoy it but I don't think it's anything more than a fun way to kill 90 minutes.
Expendables 2 though doesn't want to be anything more than a movie featuring Bruce Willis driving Arnie through a battle at an airport in a smart car while Sly fist fights Jean Claude Van Damme, and I think it does what it wants to do brilliantly.
Glad you enjoyed it. I did too. That's why I'm here as long as you'll have me.
After nine years, I've decided I'm more than happy to have you here!
@Bernard, completely agreed. It weighs on him for sure and is one of the more impactful deaths Bond had to endure throughout the Craig era.
A character should have some motivation or purpose aside from existing solely to advance another character's plot.
It's very contrived that he dies as a sacrificial lamb solely to convince Bond to forgive Vesper. (You would think a dying person last words would be that they love their family or something about their own life, right?)
Mathis had a purpose in Casino Royale. This Mathis exists only as a cheap device from the writers.
@Bernard, it's definitely one of the many moments Craig's Bond is downplaying his own feelings, but instead of trying to act unaffected, he is being pretty honest. Mathis wouldn't care, and would instead rather prefer to be useful, so I find that moment to be a callback to CR where Bond uses his body to his advantage much like Mathis used the bodies of Obanno and his men from the stairwell clash.
@M16_Cart, I genuinely think that Mathis in QoS has more use to him than in CR. He's great in both, in my opinion, but I find his use in QoS endlessly more interesting and engaging. In CR he's often just an exposition advice to explain to casual audience members how poker is played, a creative choice justified through Vesper needing it explained to her, given her ingénue nature when it comes to gambling, and I never found the attempt to implicate him as the secret mole on Le Chiffre's side to be remotely effective. He's used as a veteran type spy to clash with the rough and tumble rookie that is Craig's Bond, and serves to distract from the true traitor in order for Vesper's betrayal to hit all the harder, but the more human side of him in QoS is so much more rewarding for me.
Mathis really is Bond's sage guide in QoS, and I don't think Bond would come out of that film the same man as he was if Mathis wasn't around. Not only does the script pick up with Mathis at an interesting point, where he and Bond have to forgive and forget their past clash to work together, it's engaging to find Bond in a vulnerable position where he needs help and has to admit he was wrong to be suspicious and distrusting of Mathis in order to get him on his side again. It says much about both men that they drop the past and forge toward the future. Mathis's concern for Bond is quite apparent, like a father's concern for his son, and because of this dynamic, he feels far more vital a character than he was in CR, both in his depth and importance to the story. On the plane, as Bond drinks himself into a stupor, you can see how hurt and bothered Mathis is, not wanting to see him go off the deep end, especially since it's clear to him that Bond has yet to forgive Vesper and is still letting her torture his soul.
As for his death scene, the fact that Mathis uses his last moments on earth to give Bond some heart to heart advice, instead of prioritizing his own existence and soul, really says it all about what kind of man he was and how he felt about Bond as a man. I think it is Mathis who not only shows Bond the true hollowness of vengeance that he'll learns more fully by the end of the film, but also he who more than anyone else fights to keep Bond's soul on the right side of the divide. This is because he not only wanted the man to forgive Vesper for what she did, but also to forgive himself. Mathis really prioritizes Bond and his feelings, and wants him to stop torturing himself for what happened beyond all else, and through his death I think Bond finally snaps out of the grief that he was put in at the end of CR and allows him to objectively assess all that Vesper did for him. From there, Bond is able to truly forgive her, and himself, and I think Mathis's influence was also at play when Bond was mature and level-headed enough not to kill Yusef on sight. Through Mathis's influence, Bond became healed and more professional.
I think it really paid to have someone like Mathis in QoS to clash with Bond on his journey of grieving, because unlike any of the other characters who intimately knew Bond in that story, he could cross that professional line in a way that Felix or M never could with Bond to have a very direct confrontation with his soul. Because Mathis could be more than a partner to Bond, and because they had no professional barrier that couldn't be crossed, he was able to resemble something approaching a concerned father who could openly and honestly reach to the heart of the guarded spy.
Just my twenty cents...
The feeling is mutual, @Creasy47. I've managed to stick around, like a bad Arnie one-liner. It's good to still be here and good to see this thread revived again. I'd totally forgotten I'd made it! :)
Please stick around this time. AND PAY YOUR RENT! I mean, please stick around this time. ;-)
Recalling old discussions.
A great scene in a great Bond movie.
And staying round long enough, both Leiter and Bond reach the same end on a mission. Called back one more time and one time too many.
Isn't that the truth? I miss posting like I used to.
I think this post nails it. I've never had an issue with this scene.
Yes, as he couldn't provide a proper Christian burial for his friend Mathis, Bond had to improvise and use what was at hand to provide a burial spot for that moment. Someone in Bond's profession doesn't always get the luxuries of proper ways of doing things afforded to the regular citizen. I'm sure that Mathis would have understood that.
@Creasy47, I fondly remember the old days and lament all the time I had during summers between school. What halcyon times they were...genuinely feels like a lifetime ago because I'd never be able to replicate my posting history these days. It's a frustrating experience having things you want to write/put together and post here, but time and obligations in your schedule keep getting in the way and all of a sudden months have passed. Hoping to finish my NTTD review before I'm 50.