Bond 24 to CONTINUE to explore Bond's human side

13

Comments

  • Posts: 15,127
    doubleoego wrote:
    Brosnan is a mediocre actor at best imo. He's nowhere near being a fantastic actor but he's far from terrible. That being said, if after 4 movies you admittedly feel as though you never nailed the role then it's something you'll never do. I personally feel some people and even Brosnan himself maybe a tad too hard on him but I agree that there were great elements in all 4 of his movies that required great acting performances which he wasn't able to successfully pull off.

    With all his flaws, Brosnan did however contribute to the renewal of the franchise, making it popular again. It was not quite creative enough, the movies often lacked intelligence and originality, they were a bit by the number, Brosnan himself I agree was a mediocre actor, but people wanted him in the role and a new face for Bond did play a role in the success of GE. Maybe because of this he got a free pass in his subsequent movies. I know I was not critical of him until DAD.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2013 Posts: 12,480
    I still enjoy Brosnan's Bond very much. And I do think he is a good actor, if not a great one. Far better than mediocre. GE and TND are my favorites of his four. I have plenty of friends who like TWINE a lot, I am just not one of them. And I liked the first half of DAD, but it sunk and stunk overall.

    I enjoyed Pierce very much in The Matador and of course the elegantly filmed, Bond-ish film The Thomas Crown Affair. I don't understand the strong negativity, hateful bashing of him as Bond, I just don't. He was Bond at the right time, he reinvigorated the franchise, and at least in his first two - for me - he was a very fine James Bond indeed.

    I happen to enjoy every actor who has played Bond, except Lazenby. I like each of them and each of them have good films and not so good films. Okay, Timothy only had two and he was fine in both (TLD being my strong favorite of his two).

    I don't empathize with folks who can only like one type of Bond or feel that one is their true Bond (e.g., Connery) and the others can never live up to that. I am a lifelong Bond fan, from the books, and I am okay with different interpretations/styles. It keeps the series fresh and continuing. If Bond, and Bond movies, hadn't changed, this series would have died out, truly. I'm really thrilled with Craig and I look forward to a few more from him, I hope.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @4EverBonded, if you really enjoyed Brosnan in 'The Matador,' see him and Geoffrey Rush together in 'The Tailor of Panama.' Probably my favorite non-Bond film of his. Amazing. He's really raunchy in that film, as well.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Oh, I saw The Tailor of Panama! Just didn't think of it off the top of my head. Good one!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Absolutely! He really shines in that film, and I love how dark and narcissistic he is.
  • Posts: 15,127
    I still enjoy Brosnan's Bond very much. And I do think he is a good actor, if not a great one. Far better than mediocre. GE and TND are my favorites of his four. I have plenty of friends who like TWINE a lot, I am just not one of them. And I liked the first half of DAD, but it sunk and stunk overall.

    I enjoyed Pierce very much in The Matador and of course the elegantly filmed, Bond-ish film The Thomas Crown Affair. I don't understand the strong negativity, hateful bashing of him as Bond, I just don't. He was Bond at the right time, he reinvigorated the franchise, and at least in his first two - for me - he was a very fine James Bond indeed.

    I happen to enjoy every actor who has played Bond, except Lazenby. I like each of them and each of them have good films and not so good films. Okay, Timothy only had two and he was fine in both (TLD being my strong favorite of his two).

    I don't empathize with folks who can only like one type of Bond or feel that one is their true Bond (e.g., Connery) and the others can never live up to that. I am a lifelong Bond fan, from the books, and I am okay with different interpretations/styles. It keeps the series fresh and continuing. If Bond, and Bond movies, hadn't changed, this series would have died out, truly. I'm really thrilled with Craig and I look forward to a few more from him, I hope.

    I will qualify my previous post: Brosnan is an average actor that knows how to choose his roles well. He was right for Bond in that sense, but he admitted himself that he never nailed the role completely, which is I think an indication of his limitations as an actor.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Absolutely! He really shines in that film, and I love how dark and narcissistic he is.

    Yes TtoP is a good film. Brosnan does sleazy really well. Oh and Jamie Lee Curtis was so flippin' hot!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @doubleogo, finally someone else who agrees that she is hot in that movie. Amazing.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Yes, she has an amazing body.
  • Posts: 498
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @4EverBonded, if you really enjoyed Brosnan in 'The Matador,' see him and Geoffrey Rush together in 'The Tailor of Panama.' Probably my favorite non-Bond film of his. Amazing. He's really raunchy in that film, as well.

    This^
  • JRRJRR
    Posts: 74
    James Bond is a character struggling with himself, his past, present, and the chance of a future; his worst enemy of all could be his conscience.

    The business he has committed his life to, the belief in standing up for what is right and he feels is justice for his country in a world of grey ethics and questionable political morals makes every decision complicated and potentially ugly, sometimes impossible for him to live with.

    These decisions mean living with the consequences of actions, with few, if no other alternatives, and then there is the daily possibility of his demise, this fuels the desire to take all he can get when the opportunity is presented, so the womanising, gambling, alcohol, cigarettes are a thrilling escape from a tomorrow that may not be reached, and if is, then the damage of the past is so out-of-control, redemption seems a futile cause.

    In the short moments of reflection there is a vain hope that will always propel him back, to pick up the gauntlet of an evil adversary; this is why the lifestyle is a vicious and addictive cycle, which James Bond cannot live with or without.

    Exploring the depth of the James Bond character will always leave the audience with the feeling of a self-confident personality guarding a troubled presence that haunts his soul; the mystery of his inner-self extends to why he can be who he is, and involve himself in the espionage world, where self-dependency is the only means of survival and the constant threat of an unscrupulous rival will justify as accepted reasoning to continue doing what needs to be done.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Excellent analysis of Bond's psyche and one I completely agree with @JRR.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Yes, very well put and written.
  • Posts: 4,409
    JRR wrote:
    James Bond is a character struggling with himself, his past, present, and the chance of a future; his worst enemy of all could be his conscience.

    The business he has committed his life to, the belief in standing up for what is right and he feels is justice for his country in a world of grey ethics and questionable political morals makes every decision complicated and potentially ugly, sometimes impossible for him to live with.

    These decisions mean living with the consequences of actions, with few, if no other alternatives, and then there is the daily possibility of his demise, this fuels the desire to take all he can get when the opportunity is presented, so the womanising, gambling, alcohol, cigarettes are a thrilling escape from a tomorrow that may not be reached, and if is, then the damage of the past is so out-of-control, redemption seems a futile cause.

    In the short moments of reflection there is a vain hope that will always propel him back, to pick up the gauntlet of an evil adversary; this is why the lifestyle is a vicious and addictive cycle, which James Bond cannot live with or without.

    Exploring the depth of the James Bond character will always leave the audience with the feeling of a self-confident personality guarding a troubled presence that haunts his soul; the mystery of his inner-self extends to why he can be who he is, and involve himself in the espionage world, where self-dependency is the only means of survival and the constant threat of an unscrupulous rival will justify as accepted reasoning to continue doing what needs to be done.

    Very well put.
    It's all in Fleming. In MR the novel Fleming talks of how Bond likes to spend all his salary every month as soon as possible. His aim is to have as little in his bank account when he is inevitably killed in a mission.

    This is also reminiscent of Bond's retort to M in CR after she berates him: '00 have a short life expectancy". He knows he's likely to die soon so he thinks he's justified for his actions.
  • Posts: 2,599
    “When I wrote that scene – two men speaking in a room for 10 pages – I thought 'There’s no way we’re going to be able to do this,’ but Sam Mendes said 'Yes, go for it’ and I think the audience really embraced it.”

    Thank god for Mendes. We may have had yet another non stop action romp. This sort of dialogue that we got from Silva on the island was pure Fleming. Seems like Logan is clued up on Fleming's literature which is great. It's obviously important that Eon find a Bond 24 director who shares Logan's vision.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 4,622
    Lets not overdo the melodrama or Bond's human side though. SF as it concluded, set us up with the old gang and old office, so maybe let's just get the "old dog" back on a mission again, and not have him burdened by any very pressing personal issues.
  • I didn't find Skyfall to be melodramatic. I think the same amount of drama and character development is fine, they just need to stay away from the "inside man/mole" angle and the "this time it's personal" vendetta type stories. We can have a more traditional Bond vs Bad Guy type story while maintaining the emotional depth, I think the Fleming novels are proof of that.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I didn't find Skyfall to be melodramatic. I think the same amount of drama and character development is fine, they just need to stay away from the "inside man/mole" angle and the "this time it's personal" vendetta type stories. We can have a more traditional Bond vs Bad Guy type story while maintaining the emotional depth, I think the Fleming novels are proof of that.

    I couldn't have put it better.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 4,622
    Sure Bond displayed a human side in the Fleming novels, but at core the character was generally quite determined and very focused, and possessing an acerbic wit (he sure gave it good to GF, and to Blofled as well at the Castle of Death) and joie de vivre.
    He was pretty much focused on mission without big distractions. Craig-Bond at least has that right. He is very much about the "duty".
  • Posts: 908
    I didn't find Skyfall to be melodramatic. I think the same amount of drama and character development is fine, they just need to stay away from the "inside man/mole" angle and the "this time it's personal" vendetta type stories. We can have a more traditional Bond vs Bad Guy type story while maintaining the emotional depth, I think the Fleming novels are proof of that.

    Yeah, give us more of old Grumpy, weeping and failing!
    By the Way ,the emotional depth so many of you see in Flemings work is Way overdone. This brooding Bond of the last few Novels was simply the result of Fleming knowing his time had come. Before that point there was hardly any Kind of emotional reflection at all ( Save hate,that is).
  • Posts: 2,599
    I didn't find Skyfall to be melodramatic. I think the same amount of drama and character development is fine, they just need to stay away from the "inside man/mole" angle and the "this time it's personal" vendetta type stories. We can have a more traditional Bond vs Bad Guy type story while maintaining the emotional depth, I think the Fleming novels are proof of that.

    Exactly. This is what should happen.

  • edited March 2013 Posts: 4,622
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Yeah, give us more of old Grumpy, weeping and failing!
    By the Way ,the emotional depth so many of you see in Flemings work is Way overdone. This brooding Bond of the last few Novels was simply the result of Fleming knowing his time had come. Before that point there was hardly any Kind of emotional reflection at all ( Save hate,that is).
    Yes I do think there is a danger of overstating Bond's emotional state as found in the Fleming books. It really isn't that deep or even terribly developed, I don't find. Bond was only down in the dumps in YOLT because Blofeld had blown away his wife. Who wouldn't be effected? So M realizing that Bond wasnt terribly effective as an agent right about then, sends him off to Japan on a diplomatic mission, where he settles right in with Dikko and Tiger for weeks of boozing, carousing and grousing about the general state of the world. Then Tiger unwittingly serves up Blofeld and Bunt on a silver platter to Bond, and off our hero goes, motivated primarily by revenge, to slay the dragon within.
    It's not the worst thing to play with Bond's human side, but it's not worth dwelling on either. Bond is first and foremost about mission and getting the job done, in all the Fleming books. He has his moments of reflection but he doesn't dwell or get consumed.
  • timmer wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Yeah, give us more of old Grumpy, weeping and failing!
    By the Way ,the emotional depth so many of you see in Flemings work is Way overdone. This brooding Bond of the last few Novels was simply the result of Fleming knowing his time had come. Before that point there was hardly any Kind of emotional reflection at all ( Save hate,that is).
    Yes I do think there is a danger of overstating Bond's emotional state as found in the Fleming books. It really isn't that deep or even terribly developed, I don't find. Bond was only down in the dumps in YOLT because Blofeld had blown away his wife. Who wouldn't be effected? So M realizing that Bond wasnt terribly effective as an agent right about then, sends him off to Japan on a diplomatic mission, where he settles right in with Dikko and Tiger for weeks of boozing, carousing and grousing about the general state of the world. Then Tiger unwittingly serves up Blofeld and Bunt on a silver platter to Bond, and off our hero goes, motivated primarily by revenge, to slay the dragon within.
    It's not the worst thing to play with Bond's human side, but it's not worth dwelling on either. Bond is first and foremost about mission, and getting the job done, in all the Fleming books. He has his moments of reflection but he doesn't dwell or get consumed.

    I think this is an important distinction. Through many of the novels, not just the last two, Bond was a very thoughtful, sometimes conflicted, and even philosophical man. I re-read all of the Flemings a year ago and being a bit older myself (I'm Craig's age) I had a great appreciation for the "human Bond" of the novels and stories. I find that the recent era of films has used this aspect incredibly well, if not as true to Fleming as they could be (but if they did that I think the character would be unrecognizable to mainstream movie audiences as what they think "James Bond" is).

    IMHO the last three films have found a great balance between emotion, character, and action. I certainly wouldn't complain if they stayed the course, but then I wouldn't be opposed to the next film being a little "lighter" either.

  • edited March 2013 Posts: 2,599
    "Through many of the novels, not just the last two, Bond was a very thoughtful, sometimes conflicted, and even philosophical man."

    Yeah, that's right. Certainly he wasn't as down in the dumps in the earlier novels as he was following the death of his wife but still, that melancholy was there. I remember him reflecting gloomily after having to kill that chap in cold blood at the beginning of Goldfinger. Anyway, there are many other facets to Bond's character besides his depression.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited April 2013 Posts: 4,521
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    I didn't find Skyfall to be melodramatic. I think the same amount of drama and character development is fine, they just need to stay away from the "inside man/mole" angle and the "this time it's personal" vendetta type stories. We can have a more traditional Bond vs Bad Guy type story while maintaining the emotional depth, I think the Fleming novels are proof of that.

    Yeah, give us more of old Grumpy, weeping and failing!
    By the Way ,the emotional depth so many of you see in Flemings work is Way overdone. This brooding Bond of the last few Novels was simply the result of Fleming knowing his time had come. Before that point there was hardly any Kind of emotional reflection at all ( Save hate,that is).

    Quantum real goal will be what Blofeld (OHMSS) can have done.

    359382-dracula-3-the-path-of-the-dragon-windows-screenshot-arno-s.jpg

    gapfiller.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=lv9pdyuYWlw

    Eon whant to make Harry Potter stylish Bond Daniel Craig era.

    All 3 Daniel Craig Bond movies are not easy to at to the other Bond movies. There take disstance with things up side down/mixed up things. What i like to see is that Bond 24 elements be handeld like Thunderball, OHMSS, OP, TMND, QOS, Yolt, DAF. Example: Plot should mixed up elements of Yolt, OHMSS, DAF, LALD and TMND/CR-QOS,Skyfall. The thrill should be like Thunderball and QOS.

    Daniel Craig his Bond proof that he is smart sometimes but also very gritty, what i like to see is that we see a longer time (more then 3 months we see in Skyfall) Bond take disstance from Mi6. I whant to see him gamble, Martini, Bond girl and if needed we should see him smoke again, dreaming about Vesper, Mathis for example and someboy trow him out of Casino or we see him on the streets. Of course somebody from Quantum, Mi6 or Felix/Cia can bring him back in the game > Waterplot/Quantum real goal and Camile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn8alMYSu44
    When you were young and your heart was an open book
    You used to say live and let live
    (You know you did, you know you did you know you did)
    But if this ever changing world in which we live in
    Makes you give in and cry

    Say live and let die
    (Live and let die)
    Live and let die
    (Live and let die)

    What does it matter to ya
    When you got a job to do
    You gotta do it well
    You gotta give the other fellow hell

    You used to say live and let live
    (You know you did, you know you did you know you did)
    But if this ever changing world in which we live in
    Makes you give in and cry.

    Say live and let die
    (Live and let die)
    Live and let die
    (Live and let die)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eje28TK4D00
    If you take a life do you know what you'll give?
    Odds are, you won't like what it is
    When the storm arrives, would you be seen with me?
    By the merciless eyes of deceit?

    I've seen angels fall from blinding heights
    But you yourself are nothing so divine
    Just next in line

    Arm yourself because no-one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you
    Are you willing to die?

    The coldest blood runs through my veins
    You know my name

    If you come inside things will not be the same
    When you return to the night
    And if you think you've won
    You never saw me change
    The game that we all been playing

    I've seen diamonds cut through harder men
    Than you yourself
    But if you must pretend
    You may meet your end

    Arm yourself because no-one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you
    Are you willing to die?

    The coldest blood runs through my veins

    Try to hide your hand
    Forget how to feel
    Forget how to feel

    Life is gone with just a spin of the wheel
    Spin of the wheel

    Arm yourself because no-one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you
    Are you willing to die?

    The coldest blood runs through my veins
    You know my name
    You know my name
    You know my name
    You know my name
    You know my name
    You know my name
    You know my name
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2013 Posts: 6,306
    I think this is an important distinction. Through many of the novels, not just the last two, Bond was a very thoughtful, sometimes conflicted, and even philosophical man. I re-read all of the Flemings a year ago and being a bit older myself (I'm Craig's age) I had a great appreciation for the "human Bond" of the novels and stories. I find that the recent era of films has used this aspect incredibly well, if not as true to Fleming as they could be (but if they did that I think the character would be unrecognizable to mainstream movie audiences as what they think "James Bond" is).

    Great points. It surprised and impressed me that Silva made a reference to Bond's pills in SF. That seemed very Flemingesque.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2013 Posts: 6,306
    Double post.
  • Posts: 1,092
    I do like this, I like character driven/study storylines. I do. I want a bit of the old gran escapism as well but with such a good actor (Caig) in the role now, why not go this way? Go to the Bond actor's strengths. Not that 'ol Dan doesn't have other skills but it makes sense for them to do this. As other have mentioned on this site many times, this is the rebirth of what Dalts was trying to do with his films. Too bad he didn't have the rest of the team behind him, or at least not as much as now.

    I'm all for it.
  • samainsysamainsy Suspended
    Posts: 199
    LeChiffre wrote:
    as long as Guy Ritchie isn't allowed anywhere near this B24 should be fine
    was he the one who did something with quantum of solace if so thats why it wasnt as good as daniels other 2 films

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Guy Ritchie had noting to do with Quantum of Solace or any other Bond film.
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