Villain and Henchmen Deaths in LALD?

Dragonpol

It's been said by some commentators (especially in the 2002 Virgin Books book Bond Films by Jim Smith and Stephen Lavington) that the black villains all meet their commupence in one way or other at the hands of James Bond, giving out a not-very-palatable message to black audiences at the time and even since then. Quoted below is the critical passage relevant to this thread:

"The most prominent - for some the most problematic - Bond film in this respect is Live and Let Die. Some find it inherently racist that the principal villain is black., and the hero is white. Also dubious is the presentation of Solitaire - a young white girl imprisoned by, and in the power of, these villains who is saved by Bond. This reading, however, is slightly reductive. The part of Solitaire was written for a blavck woman (screenwriter Tom Mankiewicz wanted Diana Ross cast) and a white actress was only hired because Uniited Artists made clear to Eon that it would be difficult for them to sell a picture with a white leading man and a black leadiing lady in several American states.

[...]

The key problem that many have - Bond's victory over Kananga - is easy to explain. The villain ultimately loses, like so many before him, because he is up against James Bond. Bond is the hero it's his movie. End of story."

(Quoted from 'Racism?: Jim Smith and Stephen Lavington, 'Take this honky out and waste him.', Bond Films, (Virgin Film, Virgin Books, London 2002), pp. 127-128.



I believe that this critical line could not be further from the truth if it tried to be. An analysis of all of the villain deaths in LALD will bare this out:

Dr Kananga - overinflated and then blown up with a gas pellet from a shark gun
Tee Hee - disarmed by being thrown from train window to his death due to failure of steel hook for arm
Whisper - knocked inside a heroin watertight container and then locked inside of it - demise or otherwise besides this unknown. May still be in the container some 40 years on, 1973-2013.
Rosie Carver - Rogue CIA agent shot dead by her own side's scarecrow face gun.
Adam - has petrol thrown in his eyes and dies when his speedboat hits a shipwreck
Baron Samedi - thrown into a coffin of snakes to his seeming death, but he reappears on the cowcatcher of the train Bond and Solitaire are on, laughing straight at the camera and lifting his top hat - there was talk of this character returning in a later film a la Jaws. God of Cemetaries and the Undead so his resurrection may be explained by this. (?)
Taxi Cab Driver - in Harlem and New Orleans - survives.
The Knifeman and the Olympia Brass Band - all survive unpunished.

This hardly seems to be excessive - both Whisper and Baron Samedi appear to have survived - I assume this was done as a sop to film audiences who didn't want the whitre James Bond to completely vanquish the black villains that he came up against in LALD.

I'd really love to hear your views on this subject area, as always.

DarthDimi

How persistent you are...

Please post this here:
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2580/memorable-villian-deaths/p1

Duplicate threads will be locked, sir.

EDIT: thread unlocked after appreciating very convincing arguments from @Dragonpol. :-)

Dragonpol

Thread open again for business. Thanks, DarthDimi! :)

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

I wouldn't call the deaths that Bond causes in LALD racist at all. When I watch the film the only moments I get annoyed with happen to be whenever Pepper is onscreen. Bond in no way, shape or form has any aims against black men and women in any fashion, it just so happened that the villains he was sent on a mission to investigate and later stop happened to be of color. It would be the same situation if the villains were Chinese, Japanese or whathaveyou. Though the film can at moments stereotype, Bond himself and the film as a whole is not against any color or ethnicity, and the same can be said for all the films. Some of Bond's greatest allies have been colored, from Quarrel, Che Che and Strutter to Wright's immaculate Felix. Anyone that sees LALD as anything more than a bit of entertainment poking fun at certain things here and there needs to lighten up.

In shorter terms, I agree with you, @Dragonpol. Thanks for bringing up another interesting topic and for sticking with us, mate. ;)

Dragonpol

My pleasure. I gather things have been rough on here the last little while...thought it was about time I returned renewed and re-energised. :)

00Ed

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

I wouldn't call the deaths that Bond causes in LALD racist at all. When I watch the film the only moments I get annoyed with happen to be whenever Pepper is onscreen.

In fact, the J.W. Pepper character is probably the film's most reductive stereotype: that of the loud-mouthed, ignorant redneck.

One of the things I've always liked about LALD is its subversive approach to its inherent racial tension. Plenty of movies over the years have shown righteous Poitier-esque black characters suffering from and struggling against the depredations of evil white racists. No need for the Bond Series to go there. LALD, on the other hand, pits James Bond against a cabal of cunning and sophisticated black villains. Meanwhile, the white racist, Sheriff Pepper, is made to look ridiculous and ultimately irrelevant.

This is among the many reasons why Live and Let Die is such a unique and cool Bond film.

Dragonpol

Unique it is indeed. I'm currently trying to review it from an alternative perspective so thanks for your comment here, 00Ed.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Another unique thing about the film is that it leaves the supernatural up in the air. It is not proved whether or not Solitaire has powers, or if Samedi is dead or alive, leaving you to choose. I can image that if I had seen this film at a younger age I would have gotten nightmares.

Dragonpol

Yes, it's pleasingly open-ended in this respect - leaving it up to the viewer.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Dragonpol wrote:

Yes, it's pleasingly open-ended in this respect - leaving it up to the viewer.

It actually reminds me a little of DN. Kananga/Mr. Big sets up the idea of Samedi to scare off people to protect the drugs he has on his island just like how Dr. No stops people from going to his island with his "dragon".

Dragonpol

Yes, LALD is DNII. That's been commented on by myself and many others.

thelivingroyale

In some way LTK is DN 3, because of the links between that and LALD (Hedison's Felix, American locales, drug dealers are the villians). Although the links with that and DN are pretty slim. A better way of putting it is LALD is DN 2, and LTK is LALD 2.

myworldisenough

'hero' James Bond that happens to be white defeating the principal 'villain' that happens to be black is only perceived as racist by those that have an agenda to make it so.

I feel Fleming had the habit of drawing attention to perceived racial differences, namely appearance within his books, so prehaps there were racial / percieved racist undertones there. But I don't see this really in the movies.

The movie LALD was partially based in Harlem, which was and still remains a predominately black community. If during these scenes Bond encountered nothing but white villains / henchmen / locals then no doubt there would have been an uproar and a sense of deliberate exclusion and suggestion of racism. Yet the movie portrays a realistic approach and it was/ still is accused of racism?

Matt007

Racist? What nonsense. Bond is a racial stereotype. Upper class Brit. Everyone is a stereotype of some form of another.

Now the book... Those chapter titles... And rock formations. Very dated, and in modern context, racist.

OHMSS69

I think most of the villains in LALD died good honorable classy deaths. I only have a problem with how the writer choose to dispacth Kananga.
That was over the top and just silly. Rascist? Naw,( the writer did not handle
Blofeld's death in DAF very well either. (another discussion in and of itself) )
Adam died a good death, so did Tee Hee after a vicious fight with Bond, Baron Samedi " death" was also pretty cool.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

OHMSS69 wrote:

I think most of the villains in LALD died good honorable classy deaths. I only have a problem with how the writer choose to dispacth Kananga.
That was over the top and just silly. Rascist? Naw,( the writer did not handle
Blofeld's death in DAF very well either. (another discussion in and of itself) )
Adam died a good death, so did Tee Hee after a vicious fight with Bond, Baron Samedi " death" was also pretty cool.

Yeah, LALD doesn't ever go overboard in regards to the camp, but the moment when Kananga...uhh..."pops" is when I just roll my eyes and cross my arms. Then we just get a rushed ending with the Hamilton blueprint where we get a fight near the end with Bond against the lesser villain in the film (in this case Tee Hee).

Dragonpol

Yes, this is a Hamilton trademark, it happens in all of his last three films. I think that after Goldfinger, Hamilton never really delivered the goods again, with perhaps the exception of Live and Let Die.

TheWizardOfIce

00Ed wrote:

In fact, the J.W. Pepper character is probably the film's most reductive stereotype: that of the loud-mouthed, ignorant redneck.

Astute observation. The only racist stereotype is that everyone from the south is a rednecked simpleton.

If you had a Frenchman wearing a stripy jumper with onions round his neck or a sterotypicsl Oirishman (eyebrows on his cheeks, horses wandering through housing estates, badly Tarmacced drives (in this country) and Beamish) then these days you could be accused of racism.

Yet no one thinks of writing an article about how JW is a racist portrayal because that doesn't fit the usual PC brigade agenda.

Doesn't Shaft kill some white men so why isn't there a similar article about that?

And what about Django shooting up a room full of whites but also kneecapping old Samuel L and then blowing him to buggery? Does that mean Django is not racist? Or because he kills an Uncle Tom and Leo and his men were evil its fine? But then weren't Kananga and his men also evil but Bonds a racist?

In the majority of films the bad guys die and the good guys win and the rest is irrelevant. If every Bond villain was black then there may be some validity to this tiresome theory but as Kananga is the only one its a bit thin. Apart from Goldfinger himself practically all the villains in GF were Asian - why is Bond not being accused of racism here?

CommanderRoss

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Apart from Goldfinger himself practically all the villains in GF were Asian - why is Bond not being accused of racism here?

Easy ,Asians are too busy building their nations to worry about a possible racist situation in some film. Now, some people however, try to find racism in every film and/ or situation so they can blame and shame and hold up their hands becouse they're too lazy to work!

*wink wink, nudge nudge*

No, LALD isn't racist. It's a fascinating story using subcultures. That's it.

Baltimore_007

There's some ambiguity over whether Whisper or Tee-hee actually did die that year, and of course Baron Samedi was the man 'who could not die', but it was hardly a standout release for great villain deaths. Probably Rosie Carver and the scarecrows was my favorite, and the least said the better, with Kananga at the very end

00Beast

Baltimore_007 wrote:

There's some ambiguity over whether Whisper or Tee-hee actually did die that year, and of course Baron Samedi was the man 'who could not die', but it was hardly a standout release for great villain deaths. Probably Rosie Carver and the scarecrows was my favorite, and the least said the better, with Kananga at the very end

Yeah, I have never been too convinced that Tee Hee actually bought it in the end. I mean he was something of a powerhouse like Jaws, who survived being thrown from a train! Given the terrain outside the train and how far he was thrown, and possibly into what, then maybe he died. Still though, an eternal mystery of the 007 world!

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

00Beast wrote:

Baltimore_007 wrote:

There's some ambiguity over whether Whisper or Tee-hee actually did die that year, and of course Baron Samedi was the man 'who could not die', but it was hardly a standout release for great villain deaths. Probably Rosie Carver and the scarecrows was my favorite, and the least said the better, with Kananga at the very end

Yeah, I have never been too convinced that Tee Hee actually bought it in the end. I mean he was something of a powerhouse like Jaws, who survived being thrown from a train! Given the terrain outside the train and how far he was thrown, and possibly into what, then maybe he died. Still though, an eternal mystery of the 007 world!

I don't think he died either. Too bad we never see him again, though like many things in LALD his fate is left up to you to decide and interpret.

Dragonpol

Baltimore_007 wrote:

There's some ambiguity over whether Whisper or Tee-hee actually did die that year, and of course Baron Samedi was the man 'who could not die', but it was hardly a standout release for great villain deaths. Probably Rosie Carver and the scarecrows was my favorite, and the least said the better, with Kananga at the very end

Yes, the 1973 Bond Vintage was not a good one for villain deaths - totally contrary to the critical line in the opening post in this thread. I think the screenwriters went out of their way to show the black villains could still come out on top despite a good thrashing from Moore's new James Bond. I think in fact that LALD is an anti-racialist film - it should be shown to others on how not to patronise/offend black people in film. For once, Hamilton does not patronise his audience - the fate of Tee Hee, Whisper and the Baron Samedi left up to "you the viewer". Refreshing in a James Bond film. LALD is much more complex than we think.

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

00Ed wrote:

In fact, the J.W. Pepper character is probably the film's most reductive stereotype: that of the loud-mouthed, ignorant redneck.

Astute observation. The only racist stereotype is that everyone from the south is a rednecked simpleton.

If you had a Frenchman wearing a stripy jumper with onions round his neck or a sterotypicsl Oirishman (eyebrows on his cheeks, horses wandering through housing estates, badly Tarmacced drives (in this country) and Beamish) then these days you could be accused of racism.

Yet no one thinks of writing an article about how JW is a racist portrayal because that doesn't fit the usual PC brigade agenda.

Doesn't Shaft kill some white men so why isn't there a similar article about that?

And what about Django shooting up a room full of whites but also kneecapping old Samuel L and then blowing him to buggery? Does that mean Django is not racist? Or because he kills an Uncle Tom and Leo and his men were evil its fine? But then weren't Kananga and his men also evil but Bonds a racist?

In the majority of films the bad guys die and the good guys win and the rest is irrelevant. If every Bond villain was black then there may be some validity to this tiresome theory but as Kananga is the only one its a bit thin. Apart from Goldfinger himself practically all the villains in GF were Asian - why is Bond not being accused of racism here?

You make good points worthy of an article, sir. I see you Irish comments come straight from the lips of Alan Partridge though - I'm a very big fan!

Dragonpol

I've just added to the list a villain I had missed in LALD (there really are so many of them!), that of the Knifeman who kills both Hamilton and Harold Strutter in New Orleans. This lttle guy and the funeral parade of the Olympia Brass band are left unpunished by Bond or his allies - unless we are to surmise as an audience that said punishment/arrest happens off-screen?

It's interesting that in LALD the novel, Whisper and his team are arrested by the FBI/CIA as much of Mr Big's machine are all captured alive. It seems that this has also translated over to the film version of LALD where many of the villains escape any form of punishment at all. This doesn't tally at all with the criticisms noted in the openng post in this thread - it shows how such a theory is in reality totally false.

Dragonpol

I'd love to hear more on this - is LALD a lot more complex than it seems at first blush, would you say? I think that it is, due to the race element. All very complicated.