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What was the Bond fan community's initial reaction when TND came out? More disappointing than QoS?

DarioOnatoppDarioOnatopp
edited March 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 40
Goldeneye is easily in my top five, sometimes I actually consider it my favorite of the franchise. It has a great cast and smart script, two things that Tomorrow Never Dies severely lacked. I wasn't a Bond fan back then (my first Bond film was DAD and CR was the first I saw in theaters), so I'm curious about just how disappointed the fan community was when TND came out. Did it feel like all the promise that Goldeneye brought to the franchise was shattered? Would you consider it similar to the situation we had when Quantum of Solace came out after the stellar Casino Royale gave us so much hope? Which felt like the bigger disappointment?
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Comments

  • GetafixGetafix
    edited March 2013 Posts: 11,425
    My own feeling was that TND was actually a significant improvement on the awful GE. Parts of it are okay although overall - like the rest of Brosnan's films - I hold it in pretty low regard.

    QoS is inexplicably underrated by many people on here. It's much better than people give it credit for, although probably still a mid to lower table entry. If memory serves me well QoS did about as well, if not better, as CR at the box office. A lot of the negativity towards it seems to have come afterwards, with it becoming fashionable to knock its (sometimes admitedly distracting) editing.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    Well, I always thought QOS, although flawed, got more criticism than it deserved, while TND got every criticsm it deserved. At the time I remember many people finding it better than GE.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    As someone who was a fan then (the first Bond film I saw in the cinemas) I would say that it was an even bigger success as an exotic type James Bond film. I think it had a better box office, too, though I could be wrong on this.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Tomorrow Never Dies did a little less than GoldenEye but was still a big success.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    I'd probably agree with that. Coming after the Dalton era, I was sickened by the direction EON had decided to take with GE and frankly repulsed by Brosnan. TND was a surprising and refreshing improvement, although with TWINE and then DAD things went down hill pretty rapidly.

    I actually enjoy QoS more than CR but think it could still have been a lot better.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    Really? There isn't even a connection/arc between the films like there is for CR and QoS.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2013 Posts: 12,480
    Consensus for my group of friends was that GE was fantastic, and TND a wonderful follow-up. It is one of my favorites for sure. A solid success and well thought of. (none of the QOS disappointment all around)

    Unlike the TWINE/DAD pair to come.

    And of course there doesn't have to be a connection/arc to Bond films in order to be great Bond films.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    Really? There isn't even a connection/arc between the films like there is for CR and QoS.
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    Really? There isn't even a connection/arc between the films like there is for CR and QoS.

    There isn't one between GF and TB and I find TB to be a better follow up than TND and QoS. I suppose it comes down to a matter of overall enjoyment. QoS has some great moments but I just didn't get as much enjoyment from it as the aforementioned.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    Really? There isn't even a connection/arc between the films like there is for CR and QoS.
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    TND was a relatively better follow up to GE than QoS was to CR imo.

    Really? There isn't even a connection/arc between the films like there is for CR and QoS.

    There isn't one between GF and TB and I find TB to be a better follow up than TND and QoS. I suppose it comes down to a matter of overall enjoyment. QoS has some great moments but I just didn't get as much enjoyment from it as the aforementioned.

    Sorry, by follow up I assumed you meant a continued story arc. I don't know what I thought that, as there isn't much of that in the franchise.
  • ultraboxultrabox
    Posts: 194
    I don't remember caring much for TND when it first came out.I liked GE and thought TND was comparable to it, but by then the excitement I had for Brosnan wore down and TND was just another Bond movie.

    I remember being more disappointed by QoS. Although I like it I felt that it was a huge let down after CR.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    Quantum of Solace let me down immensely when I saw it in theatres. TND was my second Bond flick in the cinema and I enjoyed it hugely despite it being as formulaic as they come, and my opinion hasn't changed.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited March 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Me and my mates enjoyed TND when it came out.

    When QOS came out I thought it was a huge disappointment, I hated it. Barely anyone I spoke to enjoyed it and the reaction on the internet was mixed.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    It was enjoyable, more than that thing called QoB.
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    edited March 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Tomorrow Never Dies did a little less than GoldenEye but was still a big success.
    Well, you know the "boring story" : in France for instance, TND did as much as GE (and even on the "+" side, 3.51M vs 3.47M), but as the dollar climbed an impressive 20% wrt to many European currencies between their releases (Franc and Mark in particular), it seemed to do less when seen from the other side of the Atlantic...
  • SiberiaSiberia
    Posts: 30
    I like how no one felt any inclination to answer the original poster's question.

    The "fan community" at the time was limited to the Usenet group and to a handful of magazines. The alt.fan.james-bond archive is still available on Google Groups if you want to see what people thought of Tomorrow Never Dies at the time.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    I have never watched a movie and the cinema and actually felt like leaving- although lets face it i saw Halle Berry's Catwoman but QOS made me want to leave half way through the film.,,,after watching it i felt like demanding my money back...its like going on a joy ride with lindsay lohan

    Tommorow Never Dies Was a million times better...no i didnt feel disapointed i felt Elated, joy at finally seeing the david arnold gunbarrel music and the awesome film that was TND
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Watched Tomorrow never dies a couple of days ago and at this point find it hard going. When i watched it at the cinema it initially grabbed me, though first thing i did was purchase the soundtrack after watching it at the cinema which probably says alot. Quantum my initial thoughts about seeing it were how much i loved it, the retro feel, its brutality and many good action scenes. Again i went straight to purchase the soundtrack of that film too, bizarrely straight after watching it at the cinema. Quantum has always maintained a solid Bond to me my opinion since i first saw it has not changed. Despite its short comings, think its a great movie.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    4EverBonded wrote:
    Consensus for my group of friends was that GE was fantastic, and TND a wonderful follow-up. It is one of my favorites for sure. A solid success and well thought of.

    That was our (me & my mates') consensus as well back then.
    Curiously now, both GE & CR having the same director, and both TND & QOS being like better by myself....
    I SWEAR I do not hate Martin Campbell!!!! I own & love most of his movies, even Green Lantern!!!!
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    I thoroughly enjoyed TND when it came out. Even now it's pretty good up until the motorbike chase - main issue is the climax.

    But I still think the first hour is good. Esp Kauffman and the car scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    Matt007 wrote:
    Even now it's pretty good up until the motorbike chase - main issue is the climax.
    What EVER is wrong with the climax??? I don't get that at all. It's an assault on the bad guy's installation. Like TSWLM, and everyone LOOOOOVES that! Except that it was done better in TND.... :))
  • nobodydoesitbetternobodydoesitbetter
    Posts: 1,021
    When TND was released I preferred it to GE. And still do. The pace is better, Brosnan is better in the role, it has some great scenes (Dr Kaufman being one of them) and the music is far superior to the travesty that is GE. The locations are far better, and the action is far superior. The climax is very similar to TSWLM but I think what most people don't like is Bond machine gunning his way through the whole sequence without any backup.
  • AnonAnon
    Posts: 246
    I remember mainly being thankful for a decent score. Movie was fine.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    All I know is, I have worn the soundtrack into the ground. Arnold at the top of his game IMO. "Backseat Driver" sure to get you a ticket on the highway. Surrender---shoulda been at the front of the movie as intended. Classic, second to Bassey.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2013 Posts: 17,829
    =bg= wrote:
    Surrender---shoulda been at the front of the movie as intended. Classic, second to Bassey.
    Yeah, right??? KD really belted it out there!
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    DarioOnatopp wrote:
    Goldeneye is easily in my top five, sometimes I actually consider it my favorite of the franchise. It has a great cast and smart script, two things that Tomorrow Never Dies severely lacked. I wasn't a Bond fan back then (my first Bond film was DAD and CR was the first I saw in theaters), so I'm curious about just how disappointed the fan community was when TND came out. Did it feel like all the promise that Goldeneye brought to the franchise was shattered? Would you consider it similar to the situation we had when Quantum of Solace came out after the stellar Casino Royale gave us so much hope? Which felt like the bigger disappointment?

    When TND came out it was a bit disappointing to me and my friends. We thought that GE was a surprising return to form for a classy, exotic Bond film and it was very well shot (I remember noticing how good the cinematography was) and very well directed. Then when TND came out it seemed a bit of a step backwards - formulaic and not as well executed as GE. In fact, there was a nagging feeling of disappointment which was the first time that I had ever felt that after seeing a Bond film in the theatre.

    I would say that QoS initially felt like an even bigger letdown than TND but that's down to one important factor - CR. CR was so incredible in so many ways, and there was a desperate hope that this was a new beginning in terms of quality in the series. After seeing QoS on opening night I was worried that CR was a freak accident of quality that we would only see once.

    I recently saw TND for the first time since it was in theatres and new to DVD and I liked it more - now I can see it for what it is, a mid-level action film version of a Bond film. But it does what it does relatively well, despite some problem areas. The second time I saw QoS the burden of impossible expectations was lifted and I enjoyed it much more - I think it gets a *bit* more flack than it deserves.

  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    chrisisall wrote:
    =bg= wrote:
    Surrender---shoulda been at the front of the movie as intended. Classic, second to Bassey.
    Yeah, right??? KD really belted it out there!


    Not sure if you're aware of it--(I was in radio at the time so I am sure of this)--KD was to be the lead song, and "Surrender" was called "Tomorrow Never Dies." Crow was at the end, and "Tomorrow Never Dies" was called "Until the Day." Someone last minute made the BS call to flip the songs as Crow was "hot" at the time and her image was "more marketable."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2013 Posts: 17,829
    =bg= wrote:
    Not sure if you're aware of it--(I was in radio at the time so I am sure of this)--KD was to be the lead song, and "Surrender" was called "Tomorrow Never Dies." Crow was at the end, and "Tomorrow Never Dies" was called "Until the Day." Someone last minute made the BS call to flip the songs as Crow was "hot" at the time and her image was "more marketable."

    Yeah, it seemed fairly apparent. KD's was SO much better!!
  • ultraboxultrabox
    Posts: 194
    thelordflasheart wrote:
    DarioOnatopp wrote:
    Goldeneye is easily in my top five, sometimes I actually consider it my favorite of the franchise. It has a great cast and smart script, two things that Tomorrow Never Dies severely lacked. I wasn't a Bond fan back then (my first Bond film was DAD and CR was the first I saw in theaters), so I'm curious about just how disappointed the fan community was when TND came out. Did it feel like all the promise that Goldeneye brought to the franchise was shattered? Would you consider it similar to the situation we had when Quantum of Solace came out after the stellar Casino Royale gave us so much hope? Which felt like the bigger disappointment?

    When TND came out it was a bit disappointing to me and my friends. We thought that GE was a surprising return to form for a classy, exotic Bond film and it was very well shot (I remember noticing how good the cinematography was) and very well directed. Then when TND came out it seemed a bit of a step backwards - formulaic and not as well executed as GE. In fact, there was a nagging feeling of disappointment which was the first time that I had ever felt that after seeing a Bond film in the theatre.

    I would say that QoS initially felt like an even bigger letdown than TND but that's down to one important factor - CR. CR was so incredible in so many ways, and there was a desperate hope that this was a new beginning in terms of quality in the series. After seeing QoS on opening night I was worried that CR was a freak accident of quality that we would only see once.

    I recently saw TND for the first time since it was in theatres and new to DVD and I liked it more - now I can see it for what it is, a mid-level action film version of a Bond film. But it does what it does relatively well, despite some problem areas. The second time I saw QoS the burden of impossible expectations was lifted and I enjoyed it much more - I think it gets a *bit* more flack than it deserves.

    You pretty much summed up my feelings.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I enjoyed TND for the most part when it came out but I think it was because it quenched my thirst for "new Bond" at the time. Looking back at it now it's just another disappointing effort from the Brosnan era that didn't reach it's potential.
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