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What's really left of Fleming to adapt?

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  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Much of "Risico" was used in FYEO. I think there are a few interesting bits still available like the Garden of Death from YOLT and the train sequences from both DAF and TMWTGG. "The Hildebrand Rarity" is still waiting to be used as well...but let's not be looking for each and every conversation Fleming ever penned to make its way onto celluloid! I don't really need to see the non-Fleming novels adapted, either. The screenwriters are certainly talented enough to give us brand-new adventures (mixed judiciously with the best of the remaining Fleming material) and make it all fit together seamlessly...personally, I'm far more interested in seeing Bond's next battle with Quantum than I am in finally witnessing May Maxwell's long-delayed entry into the film series!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited March 2013 Posts: 15,122
    It all depends of how it is done really. Just cramming Fleming for the sake of it is not a good idea, but one can get inspired by him. There are a good deal of dialogues that we have not heard in the movies that would work beautifully too. And as for Quantum and other villains, they can be inspired by the novel's villains, aspects of them that we have not seen.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Let's pretend we're Babs or MGW for a moment. What's left to plunder?

    CR: very little
    LALD: the underwater swim, Mr. Big's scheme
    MR: most of it (the card game at Blades, Gala Brand, the cliffs of Dover, the climax)
    DAF: the kicking torture, the Spangs, the train climax
    FRWL: very little
    DN: the squid fight, the guano burial
    GF: very little
    FYEO: all of QoS and FAVTAK, including Mary Ann Russell; Liz Krest, Fidele Barbey, and the plot of THR
    TB: very little
    TSWLM: all of it (legally off-limits)
    OHMSS: very little
    YOLT: the Garden of Death, the geyser, the balloon escape, the cliffhanger
    TMWTGG: the assassination attempt, the train sequence
    OP and TLD: very little

    If they decide to go back to Fleming, their best shots are the usual suspects: LALD, MR, YOLT, and TMWTGG. And, curiously, THR.

    Presumably, FAVTAK and QoS are less ripe for adaptation because they are, respectively, dated and talky.

    The Character Maria Freudenstein has not been used. Miranda Frost was the closest, but no cigar.

    What they need to do is go back to the Bond who worked alone, who doesn't need to ask permission since he has a 00-number.

    Bond should always have a team behind him and a boss who keeps him in line, that's just common sense from my point of view. It reflects the needs of his job position.



    When I read the Blades sequence in MR, it's written so vividly I feel like I'm there. Every time.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @=bg=, Fleming descriptive prowess in near unmatchable. The first lines of Casino Royale says it all.
  • offtheradarofftheradar
    Posts: 80
    tomjcull wrote:
    Riscio seems like an obvious choice from the Short Story collection found in 'For Your Eyes Only'.

    My bad, Risico has been used in For Your Eyes Only - rookie error.
  • offtheradarofftheradar
    edited April 2013 Posts: 80
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote:
    Much of "Risico" was used in FYEO. I think there are a few interesting bits still available like the Garden of Death from YOLT and the train sequences from both DAF and TMWTGG. "The Hildebrand Rarity" is still waiting to be used as well...but let's not be looking for each and every conversation Fleming ever penned to make its way onto celluloid! I don't really need to see the non-Fleming novels adapted, either. The screenwriters are certainly talented enough to give us brand-new adventures (mixed judiciously with the best of the remaining Fleming material) and make it all fit together seamlessly...personally, I'm far more interested in seeing Bond's next battle with Quantum than I am in finally witnessing May Maxwell's long-delayed entry into the film series!

    Good points. Just finished reading the Hildebrand Rarity and I concur it's not worth filming for Fleming's sake.

    I still think there is mileage in a NYC based adventure, from a global interest standpoint.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    tomjcull wrote:
    I still think there is mileage in a NYC based adventure, from a global interest standpoint.

    Yeah but all youre talking about here is a location. Flemings '007 in NY' is a nothing story on which to base a film. Just the fact of Bond 24 being set in NY wouldnt mean it was using up the last vestiges of Fleming material.
  • offtheradarofftheradar
    Posts: 80
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    tomjcull wrote:
    I still think there is mileage in a NYC based adventure, from a global interest standpoint.

    Yeah but all youre talking about here is a location. Flemings '007 in NY' is a nothing story on which to base a film. Just the fact of Bond 24 being set in NY wouldnt mean it was using up the last vestiges of Fleming material.

    Of course, just location. It would be a boon for Bond's popularity in the States though if it largely took place there.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    There was also material Fleming was working on, maybe there is something to take from there?
  • offtheradarofftheradar
    Posts: 80
    Ludovico wrote:
    There was also material Fleming was working on, maybe there is something to take from there?

    That would be awesome.

    What other screenwriters out there would be a good fit once Logan's double-0 license expires?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    tomjcull wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There was also material Fleming was working on, maybe there is something to take from there?

    That would be awesome.

    What other screenwriters out there would be a good fit once Logan's double-0 license expires?

    Too early to tell really.

    Oh, and I probably mentioned it before, but I could see General Grubozaboischikov (spelling?) showing up in the movies. Except as a rogue Russian general.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    edited May 2013 Posts: 893

    I think so too. Small trivial things too. Bond's dislike of tea. Milton Krest's character (the name was used, but that's about it), the Hildebrandt Rarity, etc.

    I quite agree, this has all but gone in the movies.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Ludovico wrote:
    There was also material Fleming was working on, maybe there is something to take from there?

    Interesting.

    Whys is TSWLM (legally off-limits) anyone?
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    007InVT wrote:
    Whys is TSWLM (legally off-limits) anyone?

    It's not legally off-limits, as such, but Danjaq don't have the rights to the content of the story and are unlikely to get them.

    Fleming was dissatisfied with the novel after it was released - it received poor reviews because it was so dissimilar to the other novels. So when Fleming sold the film rights to all his books the contract stipulated that Danjaq could use only the title and none of the content.

    I'm sure Danjaq could try to get the rights to certain elements now, like the character of Vivienne Michelle, but doubt they would go to the trouble.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Who/What is Danjaq?
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    Danjaq is the company that owns the rights to the Bond films. It's wholly owned by the Broccolis. To all intents and purposes it's basically the same as Eon.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    Stick to the fact that Mi6 only has three "double O's" licensed to kill agents.
    I would like to see them introduce the other two 008 and 0011
  • PerdoggPerdogg
    Posts: 686
    First of all, they need to dispel the myth that Bond works for MI6. Instead of worrying about lifting things verbatim, they should get back to the spirit Fleming-bond, which includes the rugged individualism, Manichaeism, and heterosexuality of Bond as a start.

    Then they should explore the gothic side of Fleming.
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    Perdogg wrote:
    First of all, they need to dispel the myth that Bond works for MI6.

    I think it's a bit late for that, Perdogg. CR, QoS and SF (not to mention the Brosnan films) all clearly showed that the SIS/MI6 building.

    Besides, Fleming himself indicated that Bond worked for SIS in OHMSS.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Perdogg wrote:
    First of all, they need to dispel the myth that Bond works for MI6. Instead of worrying about lifting things verbatim, they should get back to the spirit Fleming-bond, which includes the rugged individualism, Manichaeism, and heterosexuality of Bond as a start.

    Then they should explore the gothic side of Fleming.

    Agreed on gothic, perdogg, you know my views on MoD over MI6, though I do think that you have a point.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited May 2013 Posts: 3,327
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    I think a decent adaptation of this novel would work very well. Throw in a few characters and scenes into the mix from TSWLM, YOLT, MR and DAF, and you could have a very decent Flemingesque Bond movie.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    "What Fleming did they adapt?" would be a fairer title much closer to the truth, in my view.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    I think a decent adaptation of this novel would work very well. Throw in a few characters and scenes into the mix from TSWLM, YOLT, MR and DAF, and you could have a very decent Flemingesque Bond movie.

    There is also something very original in the novel, which I mentioned in other threads: the henchman IS the main villain. It happened very rarely in the movies. Only in FRWL, and even then it is debatable, as Grant shares screen with Rosa Klebb.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Ludovico wrote:
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    I think a decent adaptation of this novel would work very well. Throw in a few characters and scenes into the mix from TSWLM, YOLT, MR and DAF, and you could have a very decent Flemingesque Bond movie.

    There is also something very original in the novel, which I mentioned in other threads: the henchman IS the main villain. It happened very rarely in the movies. Only in FRWL, and even then it is debatable, as Grant shares screen with Rosa Klebb.

    How about Emilio Largo as a henchman of Ernst Stavro Blofeld in the novel and film versions? No?

    I like your point about Scaramanga in TMWTGG, though.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    I think a decent adaptation of this novel would work very well. Throw in a few characters and scenes into the mix from TSWLM, YOLT, MR and DAF, and you could have a very decent Flemingesque Bond movie.

    There is also something very original in the novel, which I mentioned in other threads: the henchman IS the main villain. It happened very rarely in the movies. Only in FRWL, and even then it is debatable, as Grant shares screen with Rosa Klebb.

    How about Emilio Largo as a henchman of Ernst Stavro Blofeld in the novel and film versions? No?

    I like your point about Scaramanga in TMWTGG, though.

    Largo is way more than a henchman: he is the commander in the field and the main antagonist in TB. Yes, Blofeld is the ultimate leader, but he is far removed, behind the scene and not the main focus. There is a difference between hierarchy and antagonism.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    Yes, that is true, sorry.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Dragonpol wrote:
    "What Fleming did they adapt?" would be a fairer title much closer to the truth, in my view.

    So true.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,122
    007InVT wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    "What Fleming did they adapt?" would be a fairer title much closer to the truth, in my view.

    So true.

    Roughly, I'd say 50%. Even in the early movies, they take out or modify as much as they keep. Some of it because it cannot be adapted, of course, but there is still a lot left that could be used, given the right twist.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    We still havent had Dr No's obstacle course of death. Not sure if that would work in a modern film but seeing Dan properly beaten up would and snarling 'get on you bastard' would be pretty good.

    A CGI giant squid battle would probably be pushing it though.
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