The thread of Bond lists - LIST 157 - Evaluate the FRWL Opening Titles. (see criteria)

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  • Posts: 7,653
    The only things that really bug me are some of the editing during the fights, the fact that Blofeld doesn't recognize Bond (one of the biggest holes in the series), Bond shagging Ruby when he is already committed to Tracy, and the dubbing....I can't really think of much more...

    Blame Fleming for this one, but Bond only gets really commited after the escape from the mountain when she saves his life.

    It isn't my favorite of the series, but it is quite polished and special when you consider what it does with the character of Bond.

    I need to re-watch YOLT soon and give my best/worst for that...

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    SaintMark wrote:
    The only things that really bug me are some of the editing during the fights, the fact that Blofeld doesn't recognize Bond (one of the biggest holes in the series), Bond shagging Ruby when he is already committed to Tracy, and the dubbing....I can't really think of much more...

    Blame Fleming for this one, but Bond only gets really commited after the escape from the mountain when she saves his life.

    It isn't my favorite of the series, but it is quite polished and special when you consider what it does with the character of Bond.

    I need to re-watch YOLT soon and give my best/worst for that...
    Yeah, that is what I was thinking too, @SaintMark to try and rationalize why Bond acts like that. I surmise that while at Piz Gloria Tracy was still just a minor fling he used to get information about Blofeld from Draco who wanted him to be with her, and it wasn't until later that he really fell hard for her completely. It does make sense, I must say.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2013 Posts: 9,117
    3. Tracy just so happening to be in Switzerland right where Bond is fleeing. Beyond contrived.

    Blame Fleming for that.

    And Tracy being told by Draco that Bond was at Piz Gloria and then stumbling into him is not quite as contrived as the whole plot of TB relying on Bond just happening to be at the same health club as Angelo. If that doesnt happen Bond goes off to hunt moose in Canada with Group Captain Pritchard.

    5. The hypnosis is a bit embarassing - although is it any worse than the novel with its sounds of chickens in the background?

    4. Bond shagging more than just Ruby. Its just downright unprofessional in terms of putting his cover at risk. One is fine (he could call it a holiday romance if caught) but three when he is supposed to be a well paid professional and guest of Blofeld doing research work on behalf of the College of Arms? I dont think Flemings Bond would do this.

    3. Choppy editing in the fight scenes.

    2. Not making the most out of Campbell and giving us the epic scene from the book where Bond blanks him and then 'lights a cigarette with a dead steady hand'. No Rolex knuckleduster or rubbing soap into his eyes to get the goggles are missed too.

    1. Blofeld not recognising Bond because he is wearing a pair of glasses but hey presto once they are removed its all 'Takes more than a few props to turn 007 into a herald'. Retarded beyond belief, although if the only other option was the plastic surgery to Bond then fair enough I guess.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I know it's crazy, but I always played off the notion that Blofeld in YOLT was just another Double and Telly was the real Blofeld who got paralyzed from the tree limb accident and appeared later in FYEO and died for good. Crazy I know. :-??
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @Murdock - but more satisfying! ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    One tries. ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote:
    I know it's crazy, but I always played off the notion that Blofeld in YOLT was just another Double and Telly was the real Blofeld who got paralyzed from the tree limb accident and appeared later in FYEO and died for good. Crazy I know. :-??

    What the real Blofeld is paralysed after OHMSS and the guys doing his bidding in DAF are mere underlings altered with plastic surgery?

    I like it. Well I dont but its far better than EON have ever given us so I am happy to run with it until someone can come up with a better hypothesis.

    Maybe just pretend DAF never existed? Certainly has its merits as a theory.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited June 2013 Posts: 16,351
    What the real Blofeld is paralysed after OHMSS and the guys doing his bidding in DAF are mere underlings altered with plastic surgery?

    I like it. Well I dont but its far better than EON have ever given us so I am happy to run with it until someone can come up with a better hypothesis.

    Maybe just pretend DAF never existed? Certainly has its merits as a theory.

    Well I also tend to watch DAF after YOLT because they both have over the top plots involving space, then I watch OHMSS after DAF and play it off that Blofeld got away and went into hiding after he killed Tracy then appears 12 years later for a final sendoff when Bond visits her grave.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Given the 'not recognising Bond thing in OHMSS isnt the only order to watch them and make sense of it all: OHMSS, YOLT, DAF, FYEO.

    I'll explain it thus:

    After OHMSS Blofeld isnt paralysed (but his skiing days are over) but possibly the tree branch ripped half of his face open leaving the scar in YOLT.

    Then in the PTS of DAF Bond is hunting down Blofeld just because of YOLT and not for revenge.

    After the bathosub battering Blofeld ends up paralysed for FYEO.

    That sort of makes sense.

    Except of course Blofeld says in YOLT 'Let me introduce myself' so that has to be first. Bugger it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sadly EON had to fluff up continuity.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Given the 'not recognising Bond thing in OHMSS isnt the only order to watch them and make sense of it all: OHMSS, YOLT, DAF, FYEO.

    I'll explain it thus:

    After OHMSS Blofeld isnt paralysed (but his skiing days are over) but possibly the tree branch ripped half of his face open leaving the scar in YOLT.

    Then in the PTS of DAF Bond is hunting down Blofeld just because of YOLT and not for revenge.

    After the bathosub battering Blofeld ends up paralysed for FYEO.

    That sort of makes sense.

    Except of course Blofeld says in YOLT 'Let me introduce myself' so that has to be first. Bugger it.

    Plus we can see at the end oF OHMSS briefly while he is driving that Blofeld's face isn't scarred at all. I give up too; the whole continuity in this area of the franchise is an utter mess.

    I have toyed with the idea that "Blofeld in YOLT is just a clone" theory, but who knows anymore. When I revisit it and DAF again I will see how I feel about it...
  • Posts: 12,837
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).

    Completely spot on. With fudges like this you really can't blame some people at times for arguing the codename theory. EON definitely didn't help the situation, that's for sure.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    This is difficult to come up with five. Perhaps I can save a few for DAF?

    5) The falling in love montage. Since I have to pick five. Overall it works, especially with the great music playing in the background, but it does feel like a bit of a cheat. They really rushed us through some important character development there.

    4) Lazenby's delivery of the one liners. Yeah, this just wasn't his thing.

    3) The title sequence playing clips from the previous movies. Why exactly was this done? To remind people that this is indeed a Bond movie even though Connery isn't in it? It's just unoriginal and not aesthetically pleasing. A nitpick for sure but, again, it's hard to come up with five.

    2) Bond looking at his "souvenirs" from previous missions. On it's own this is not a big deal. However, after "the other fella" bit, then the title sequence, then this and lastly Blofeld not recognizing Bond I'm extremely confused about whether this is the same James Bond or not! Make up your minds people.

    1) James Bond the nymphomaniac shagging everything in sight at Piz Gloria. Talk about blowing your cover. This is not something a secret agent would do. Not to mention the fact that he is supposedly in love with Tracy and this just makes him look like a selfish a**hole. It almost ruins the credibility of the love story entirely.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).

    Completely spot on. With fudges like this you really can't blame some people at times for arguing the codename theory. EON definitely didn't help the situation, that's for sure.

    The weather conditions prevented On Her Majesty's Secret Service from being filmed after Thunderball - just like it had after Goldfinger, so You Only Live Twice was to be filmed first, with On Her Majesty's Secret Service following that as Connery's sixth film. Though after he left, The Man With The Golden Gun was meant to follow instead but that fell through due to the Samlaut Uprising, so it was back to On Her Majesty's Secret Service but this time with a different actor as Bond.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).

    Completely spot on. With fudges like this you really can't blame some people at times for arguing the codename theory. EON definitely didn't help the situation, that's for sure.

    The weather conditions prevented On Her Majesty's Secret Service from being filmed after Thunderball - just like it had after Goldfinger, so You Only Live Twice was to be filmed first, with On Her Majesty's Secret Service following that as Connery's sixth film. Though after he left, The Man With The Golden Gun was meant to follow instead but that fell through due to the Samlaut Uprising, so it was back to On Her Majesty's Secret Service but this time with a different actor as Bond.

    Weather conditions?? :-/
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Weather conditions?? :-/

    I read there wasn't enough heavy snowfall to do the Ski scenes in those years.

  • Posts: 12,837
    Thanks for that @Samuel001. At least we know they had a good reason for it.

    Also interesting how it was meant to follow Goldfinger. I wonder how TB would've turned out if that'd happened?
  • 3. Tracy just so happening to be in Switzerland right where Bond is fleeing. Beyond contrived.

    Blame Fleming for that.

    And Tracy being told by Draco that Bond was at Piz Gloria and then stumbling into him is not quite as contrived as the whole plot of TB relying on Bond just happening to be at the same health club as Angelo. If that doesnt happen Bond goes off to hunt moose in Canada with Group Captain Pritchard.

    True enough, but I don't have to like it. And I'm on your side on Thunderball (although Bond hunting moose for two hours does sound like quite the premise).

  • Posts: 1,817
    I really can't complain on this magnificent movie, third in my ranking.
    The "other fella" line is stupid but I've learned to get over it. As for the dubbing, for me the whole notion of Bond passing as Sir Hilary is so interesting that I found logical he would copy his voice.
    Regarding the continuity problems, I never think too much of that. I see OHMSS almost as a one-stand movie adapted from the novel (even if later they refer to Tracy). In that way I have no problem with the Blofeld situation as I think it's really the first time they meet. Also that spares me of the embarrassment of having DAF as the sequel.
    Lazenby in my opinion is good (and he could have been great), the down side is how he delivers the one-liners, but fortunately they're so many really.
    My biggest and only issue is the following:

    1. Draco hitting Tracy. That scene makes me feel so unconfortable not only because it is violence against a woman but also from father to daughter. It's really distasteful. I only wish Santino Corleone would appear, beat up Draco and throw the line "You touch Tracy again, I kill you".
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote:
    Weather conditions?? :-/

    I read there wasn't enough heavy snowfall to do the Ski scenes in those years.

    Oh! Wow, that makes perfect sense, and I never knew that. Think how different things would be if the order of films with Blofeld followed Fleming!
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 388
    1. The pre-title sequence. It's so confusing if you haven't read the novel. Bond is overtaken on the road by a woman driving a car. He follows her to the beach and watches her walk into the sea. He wades in after her, brings her ashore and is then attacked by hired goons. He introduces himself to her and she runs off. It's just baffling. Why on earth would he assume that she's attempting suicide? He has never even met her.

    2. Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond. They met in YOLT. It was a fairly memorable meeting. Blofeld knew what Bond looked like before that anyway (as early as FRWL, we would assume.) Stupid.

    3. The attack on Bond in his hotel room by Drax's heavies. Again, it just doesn't really make sense.

    4. George Baker dubbing Lazenby. It's unnecessary, very distracting and not especially well done.

    5. Bond's imprisonment within the cable car machinery in Piz Gloria is a bit stupid as it's clearly possible (if dangerous) to escape. Why not just put him back in his own (locked) room with a couple of armed guards?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2013 Posts: 13,355
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).

    Completely spot on. With fudges like this you really can't blame some people at times for arguing the codename theory. EON definitely didn't help the situation, that's for sure.

    The weather conditions prevented On Her Majesty's Secret Service from being filmed after Thunderball - just like it had after Goldfinger, so You Only Live Twice was to be filmed first, with On Her Majesty's Secret Service following that as Connery's sixth film. Though after he left, The Man With The Golden Gun was meant to follow instead but that fell through due to the Samlaut Uprising, so it was back to On Her Majesty's Secret Service but this time with a different actor as Bond.

    Weather conditions?? :-/

    They would have been filming in the Summer, for a Summer 1967 release, instead of Winter, for a December 1969 release. This meant, as has been said, not enough snowfall.

    To continue with the planned filming order, after On Her Majesty's Secret Service, George's second was to be Diamonds Are Forever or The Man With The Golden Gun, though due to the still ongoing uprising it was Diamonds Are Forever. After the success of that film Tom Mankiewicz was asked which book he'd like to make next. He chose Live And Let Die which was finally followed by the long delayed The Man With The Golden Gun.

    Things really, could have been so, so very different.

    Getting back on topic, I've never liked the original Bond theme being played during the raid on Blofeld, it feels very out of place.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It's messed up continuity like this that causes some idiots to believe in the code name theory so well done EON =D> (that was sarcastic clapping).

    Why did they decide to film YOLT first? Doing the Blofeld trilogy in order could have solved all these problems (as for all we know YOLT could've turned out a totally different film if they'd done things this way).

    Completely spot on. With fudges like this you really can't blame some people at times for arguing the codename theory. EON definitely didn't help the situation, that's for sure.

    The weather conditions prevented On Her Majesty's Secret Service from being filmed after Thunderball - just like it had after Goldfinger, so You Only Live Twice was to be filmed first, with On Her Majesty's Secret Service following that as Connery's sixth film. Though after he left, The Man With The Golden Gun was meant to follow instead but that fell through due to the Samlaut Uprising, so it was back to On Her Majesty's Secret Service but this time with a different actor as Bond.

    Weather conditions?? :-/

    They would have been filming in the Summer, for a Summer 1967 release, instead of Winter, for a December 1969 release. This meant, as has been said, not enough snowfall.

    To continue with the planned filming order, after On Her Majesty's Secret Service, George's second was to be Diamonds Are Forever or The Man With The Golden Gun, though due to the still ongoing uprising it was Diamonds Are Forever. After the success of that film Tom Mankiewicz was asked which book he'd like to make next. He chose Live And Let Die which was finally followed by the long delayed The Man With The Golden Gun.

    He sure failed at adapting Fleming, if that was his intention. I surmise it wasn't...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2013 Posts: 9,117
    1. The pre-title sequence. It's so confusing if you haven't read the novel. Bond is overtaken on the road by a woman driving a car. He follows her to the beach and watches her walk into the sea. He wades in after her, brings her ashore and is then attacked by hired goons. He introduces himself to her and she runs off. It's just baffling. Why on earth would he assume that she's attempting suicide? He has never even met her.

    2. Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond. They met in YOLT. It was a fairly memorable meeting. Blofeld knew what Bond looked like before that anyway (as early as FRWL, we would assume.) Stupid.

    3. The attack on Bond in his hotel room by Drax's heavies. Again, it just doesn't really make sense.

    4. George Baker dubbing Lazenby. It's unnecessary, very distracting and not especially well done.

    5. Bond's imprisonment within the cable car machinery in Piz Gloria is a bit stupid as it's clearly possible (if dangerous) to escape. Why not just put him back in his own (locked) room with a couple of armed guards?

    These are very cogent points. The attack on Bond after he pulls her out of the water is illogical as well. Are they really just going to shoot him in that rowing boat? I've heard of overprotective fathers but really...!

    I can see that they wanted to kick off the new film with a bit of action but the beach scene in the book is a flashback so it is nonsensical to put it first.

    At least make it clearer that Tracy wants to top herself by having a shot of her crying or leaving a letter with 'Papa' on the front among her clothes. As it is she could just be an eccentric who likes going swimming wearing a gown.

    Maybe they could have gone with some sort of flirtatious driving duel a la GE as Bond meets Tracy for the first time for the PTS instead? Could end it with Bond losing her on the road to Royale and then commenting 'this never happened to the other fella'? A bit limp I agree but with a bit of polish it could work.

    And why does Draco have a guy waiting in her room anyway? Or is this a test by Tracy telling her bodyguard to wait for Bond to see if he has the right stuff? If he can handle himself and escape his reward is waiting in his own room?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The first time I saw the opening to OHMSS I was so bemused it was crazy. Later when Tracy's suicide attempt is mentioned I just scratched my head. That scene could have been constructed a lot better.

    And if the men Bond fights at the start are Draco's boys, why wouldn't they be worrying about Tracy instead of trying to take out Bond? It just doesn't make sense...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Okay, I revisited YOLT last night, so here are my best/worst moments:

    WORST
    5.) How Tanaka is able to locate the EXACT coastline that the Ning Po was photographed near. I find this incredibly far-fetched (I know, it's a Bond film), and also think it is just plain stupid how the tourist that shot the photograph was killed yet the diving girls RIGHT NEXT TO THE BOAT were apparently left alive.

    4.)Bond's "death" should have been a hell of a lot better than what we got. Kind of just...meh. The world's best secret agent deserves a better death, whether it is fake or not.

    3.)A lack luster true introduction to Blofeld. While I love Donald Pleasence, after hearing the dominating and evil presence Blofeld's voice had in the early Connery films, his voice and look this film didn't live up to the vision of the man as he was teased to us.

    2.)Aki's death and Bond and Tanaka's reaction to it. Just shameful writing at this end of the film. You get the idea that Bond is really falling for Aki from the start. He is so happy to see her whenever she meets him, and overall he is pleasant around her, but when she dies it is like he instantly forgot her after a second of shock. Shameful! Then it is on to Kissy, who he only cares for because she is pretty and has a sex addiction that needs fulfilled. Way to be a prat, Bond!

    1.)Bond being turned Japanese. I mean, seriously? If this film is to be believed all it takes to turn Japanese is some bushy eyebrows and a mat of short black hair. Who seriously said with a straight face that this was a good idea?! It is this kind of stuff that makes this film only average in comparison to the league of stunning Bond films we got in the 60s.


    BEST

    5.) Brandt: [after Bond is captured] "I've got you now."
    Bond: "Well, enjoy yourself."
    [Brandt slaps him]

    4.) Bond's fight at the Kobe docks, thought is could have been shot much better. The shots are cool, but the angles show you that Bond's punches and kicks aren't meeting his enemies, ruining the moment a bit.

    3.) Little Nellie gets a "hot reception." I love Bond's dialogue at the end:
    Bond: "Little Nellie got a hot reception. Four big shots made improper advances toward her, but she defended her honor with great success."

    And how he calls Q Nellie's "father" is just great. ;))

    2.) The climactic fight in Blofeld's volcano headquarters.

    1.) Bond's fight with the heavy in Osato chemicals. I love this fight so much, and it actually looks and feels rough and painful.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    For the best moments in OHMSS, see List 12. ;-)

    So, moving on:

    LIST 1: The 007 most intelligent Bond girls
    LIST 2: Your 007 favourite OT sequences by Maurice Binder
    LIST 3: Your 007 most annoying moments in a Bond film
    LIST 4: Rank the Aston Martin cars from the Bonds
    LIST 5: 007's 007 coolest moments
    LIST 6: Rank the non-Barry/Arnold scores
    LIST 7: Your 007 most sexy moments in the Bonds
    LIST 8: The 6 best moments of Bond in London
    LIST 9: The 007 best uses of the Bond Theme
    LIST 10: The 5 worst faces made by the Bonds
    LIST 11: Your top 10 PTS
    LIST 12: The 6 best scenes in OHMSS
    LIST 13: David Arnold's 6 finest moments in the Bonds
    LIST 14: The five nicest folks who ever played a part in a Bond film.
    LIST 15: Ranking the Glen directed Bonds.
    LIST 16: Rank the Blofelds (including NSNA and FYEO)
    LIST 17: The 5 worst moments in DN.
    LIST 18: The 5 best moments in DN.
    LIST 19: The 5 worst moments in FRWL.
    LIST 20: The 5 best moments in FRWL.
    LIST 21: The 5 worst moments in GF.
    LIST 22: The 5 best moments in GF.
    LIST 23: The 5 worst moments in TB.
    LIST 24: The 5 best moments in TB.
    LIST 25: The 5 worst moments in CR67.
    LIST 26: The 5 best moments in CR67.
    LIST 27: The 5 worst moments in YOLT.
    LIST 28: The 5 best moments in YOLT.
    LIST 29: The 5 best moments in OHMSS.

    <font color=orange size=5><b>LIST 30</b></font>

    <font color=green size=6> <b>The 5 worst moments in DAF.</b></font>
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    5 - Blofeld in drag.

    4 - the SPECTRE school of incompetence at large during the oil rig climax

    3 - Blofeld *just* standing there with a dissection knife waiting for Bond to turn to him (PTS)

    2 - Tiffany's abysmal performance at the gas pump. Wow :O

    1 - The inconclusive fate of Blofeld at the end of the film
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    5. The "muck up" in the Ford Mustang chase, where it goes in on one set of wheels...
    4. The dubbing in the PTS "Ca-Ca-CARIO!"
    3. Elephant plays slots...
    2. Apewoman!!!
    1. Blofeld in drag

    Hon Mention - the gaffe where by, in the Moonbuggy chase, when a stray moonbuggy wheel appears, when a car falls over.

    This one was hard - I had trouble in limiting it down to five. ;)
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