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What do you want from Billie Eilish's NTTD's title song?

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Something I learned in the 70s and 80s: there's so much to enjoy in these Bond films, I focus on what I like.

    Bond's attitude is something I'll pay attention to in April, @MakeshiftPython, with everything else.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,081
    ggl007 wrote: »
    New Billie Eilish video: she drives a car underwater... No, not what you're thinking


    Uh, I know I've mentioned this already, but her voice irritates me with it's monotonous tone. I understand that it's popular, but Bond songs should be timeless. I really hope I'm proven wrong, but I think this song will be underwhelming to say the least. Billie's voice lacks the maturity needed for a truly iconic Bond theme, IMO.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2020 Posts: 24,183
    Octopussy wrote: »
    ggl007 wrote: »
    New Billie Eilish video: she drives a car underwater... No, not what you're thinking


    Uh, I know I've mentioned this already, but her voice irritates me with it's monotonous tone. I understand that it's popular, but Bond songs should be timeless. I really hope I'm proven wrong, but I think this song will be underwhelming to say the least. Billie's voice lacks the maturity needed for a truly iconic Bond theme, IMO.

    I doubt her singing would be any worse than Sheryl Crow's, whose monotonous "All I Wanna Do" would never have inspired me to select her for the Bond theme song in '97. And I would have been right too since her singing in TND is very monotonous except in those parts where Sheryl tried to bring some power but ended up just shouting her way through the ordeal.

    Madonna went deliriously monotonous too. And she didn't have to since she really can sing. But she just chose to talk rather than sing.

    Look, we've had everything more or less--except someone rapping a Bond theme song and heaven forbid we ever get that. We've enjoyed great voices covering almost every vocal range humanly possible, we've had raspy voices, we've had great rockers and beautiful ballads. We've also had some really painful singing, like NSNA, TND, DAD and, at least in my opinion, AWTD. But for some mysterious reason, relatively relaxed about Billie giving us something really good. Whatever her strengths, if Finneas and Zimmer play into those (again, not sure how involved Zimmer was with the song), it could work. It can also fail miserably. Only time will tell. I'm neither worried nor too confident at this point; I'm merely very, very curious. ;-)
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,767
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    That’s because Craig has played two iterations of Bond in a way.

    He played “Reboot Bond” for two films.

    In Skyfall he was back to playing “franchise Bond” because it was implied that he had seen his share of action between QOS and SF. Even the the exploding pen line was a nod to the franchise as a whole it kind’ve brought elements of past Bond films into the Craig continuity. The DB5 in storage WITH gadgets is also proof of this.

    So the Adele song is more in line with “franchise Bond” because Mendes sort of intended to blur the lines between the old and new, thus establishing Craig Bond as the same man from the previous 20 films pre CR.

    I would’ve preferred both from the interpretation of Bond and the music to stick in the reboot phase that we had from his first two films. Even if I don’t like AWTD that much it at least fits the intention of the filmmakers at the time.

    The point of the end of CR was that Bond had become the fully formed person that we were introduced to in DN. I don’t think the original plan in 2006 was that “reboot Bond” would be a thing for Craig’s entire run, but rather that because CR was so popular it was decided QOS would be a direct “continuation” where Bond was still behaving impulsively and making mistakes, also continuing how CR discarded old tropes and characters like Q and Moneypenny. I think EON realized that didn’t quite work given its mixed reception. Also because of the four year gap and the 50th anniversary, it made more sense to reintroduce Craig’s Bond as being a 00 veteran that likely had a bunch of adventures akin to DN-DAD, but more in spirit rather than literally.

    And I’m glad SF turned things around. I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films. CR was an exceptional Bond film, and should always remain as such.
    QoS did show character growth, as opposed to the following two films, which had, if at all, character jumps from one film to the other. And it would have been very easy to build on the immensely strong foundation Craig established in his first two films, develop the character further slowly, and re-introduce old tropes in a slower and more natural way. As it would have been very easy to show a more "natural" evolution from "our organsiation" to "Quantum" to "Spectre".
    All those doors were wide open after QoS. But someone high up must have decided they got so badly burned by QoS (I wonder how?) that they went for a denial route.




    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films.
    Hell, yeah, @MakeshiftPython.

    They've been putting the screws to Bond in every film, and reestablishing the elements of the original Bond film formula. Quite an era to witness playing out.

    One of the things I really enjoyed seeing in SPECTRE was Craig just straight up playing classic Bond. No longer the upstart that has something to prove from CR, the guy haunted by a dead lover in QOS, or the very world weary guy from SF, but rather just Bond being in his prime, strutting like he's hot s***. You really get that with the way he's casually walking on the rooftops of Mexico City, how he walks away from his dispatched parachute "good evening", and many other moments as if he has an attitude that he owns the world. He's playing classic Bond, but one that evolved from the previous films.

    I noticed some fans accused Craig of phoning it in, but I think that comes from the fact that he was no longer playing Bond as if the character had a chip on his shoulder, so in a sense he doesn't come off as compelling as he did in the previous films. Going by the trailer for NTTD, it looks like some of that angst is coming back a bit in his performance, though he also seems to still carry the confidence from SP. How that all fits into a cohesive character story will be revealed with the premiere of the film.
    I don't understand how anyone could think Craig phoned it in in SP. His performance is surely not one of that film's flaws.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    edited January 2020 Posts: 78


    Proof of concept. The track was suggest by a friend of mine who’s a Bond fan and had started listening to Billie to get a feel for her music before the film comes out. Knocked this together this afternoon.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    That’s because Craig has played two iterations of Bond in a way.

    He played “Reboot Bond” for two films.

    In Skyfall he was back to playing “franchise Bond” because it was implied that he had seen his share of action between QOS and SF. Even the the exploding pen line was a nod to the franchise as a whole it kind’ve brought elements of past Bond films into the Craig continuity. The DB5 in storage WITH gadgets is also proof of this.

    So the Adele song is more in line with “franchise Bond” because Mendes sort of intended to blur the lines between the old and new, thus establishing Craig Bond as the same man from the previous 20 films pre CR.

    I would’ve preferred both from the interpretation of Bond and the music to stick in the reboot phase that we had from his first two films. Even if I don’t like AWTD that much it at least fits the intention of the filmmakers at the time.

    The point of the end of CR was that Bond had become the fully formed person that we were introduced to in DN. I don’t think the original plan in 2006 was that “reboot Bond” would be a thing for Craig’s entire run, but rather that because CR was so popular it was decided QOS would be a direct “continuation” where Bond was still behaving impulsively and making mistakes, also continuing how CR discarded old tropes and characters like Q and Moneypenny. I think EON realized that didn’t quite work given its mixed reception. Also because of the four year gap and the 50th anniversary, it made more sense to reintroduce Craig’s Bond as being a 00 veteran that likely had a bunch of adventures akin to DN-DAD, but more in spirit rather than literally.

    And I’m glad SF turned things around. I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films. CR was an exceptional Bond film, and should always remain as such.

    I think you missed my point. Regardless of the filmmakers intention. There is a clear difference between spilt currently down the middle his four released films. And the music reflects this.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited January 2020 Posts: 8,188
    boldfinger wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    That’s because Craig has played two iterations of Bond in a way.

    He played “Reboot Bond” for two films.

    In Skyfall he was back to playing “franchise Bond” because it was implied that he had seen his share of action between QOS and SF. Even the the exploding pen line was a nod to the franchise as a whole it kind’ve brought elements of past Bond films into the Craig continuity. The DB5 in storage WITH gadgets is also proof of this.

    So the Adele song is more in line with “franchise Bond” because Mendes sort of intended to blur the lines between the old and new, thus establishing Craig Bond as the same man from the previous 20 films pre CR.

    I would’ve preferred both from the interpretation of Bond and the music to stick in the reboot phase that we had from his first two films. Even if I don’t like AWTD that much it at least fits the intention of the filmmakers at the time.

    The point of the end of CR was that Bond had become the fully formed person that we were introduced to in DN. I don’t think the original plan in 2006 was that “reboot Bond” would be a thing for Craig’s entire run, but rather that because CR was so popular it was decided QOS would be a direct “continuation” where Bond was still behaving impulsively and making mistakes, also continuing how CR discarded old tropes and characters like Q and Moneypenny. I think EON realized that didn’t quite work given its mixed reception. Also because of the four year gap and the 50th anniversary, it made more sense to reintroduce Craig’s Bond as being a 00 veteran that likely had a bunch of adventures akin to DN-DAD, but more in spirit rather than literally.

    And I’m glad SF turned things around. I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films. CR was an exceptional Bond film, and should always remain as such.
    QoS did show character growth, as opposed to the following two films, which had, if at all, character jumps from one film to the other. And it would have been very easy to build on the immensely strong foundation Craig established in his first two films, develop the character further slowly, and re-introduce old tropes in a slower and more natural way. As it would have been very easy to show a more "natural" evolution from "our organsiation" to "Quantum" to "Spectre".
    All those doors were wide open after QoS. But someone high up must have decided they got so badly burned by QoS (I wonder how?) that they went for a denial route.

    In a lot of ways QOS felt like a step backwards with Bond to me, as if he had to relearn what he already did in CR but through a different manner, kind of like how Chris Pine’s Kirk did in the second Trek film just because the first film was popular enough that the filmmakers wanted to play the same beats. The frustrating thing in QOS is that it felt even more contrived, like how Judi Dench accuses Bond of shooting a fellow agent of his point blank and he never replies to that, giving M more reason to think Bond has gotten out of control.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    But the reason he doesn’t reply to M is because any protest would assume guilt. He’s so sure that he never killed the agent that he doesn’t dignify it with a response. It’s his way of saying without saying “you know me better than this”. M has doubt because she knows how much pain he’s going through having lost Vesper and would probably accept his actions.

    Bond saying “I never left’ at the climax is his way of saying “thanks for worrying about me, I understand why you followed procedure but it’s (she’s) out of my system now”.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    It doesn’t really play well.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It doesn’t really play well.
    For you
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    And many more.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    edited January 2020 Posts: 78
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    And many more.

    Are you implying that my opinion doesn’t count because people share yours?

    Or to put it another way actually discuss it instead of just being a naysayer because you don’t share my views.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    More of a reflection of how mixed its reception was.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,767
    00Dalton7 wrote: »


    Proof of concept. The track was suggest by a friend of mine who’s a Bond fan and had started listening to Billie to get a feel for her music before the film comes out. Knocked this together this afternoon.
    Sheryll Crow was Shirley Bassey in comparison.

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    That’s because Craig has played two iterations of Bond in a way.

    He played “Reboot Bond” for two films.

    In Skyfall he was back to playing “franchise Bond” because it was implied that he had seen his share of action between QOS and SF. Even the the exploding pen line was a nod to the franchise as a whole it kind’ve brought elements of past Bond films into the Craig continuity. The DB5 in storage WITH gadgets is also proof of this.

    So the Adele song is more in line with “franchise Bond” because Mendes sort of intended to blur the lines between the old and new, thus establishing Craig Bond as the same man from the previous 20 films pre CR.

    I would’ve preferred both from the interpretation of Bond and the music to stick in the reboot phase that we had from his first two films. Even if I don’t like AWTD that much it at least fits the intention of the filmmakers at the time.

    The point of the end of CR was that Bond had become the fully formed person that we were introduced to in DN. I don’t think the original plan in 2006 was that “reboot Bond” would be a thing for Craig’s entire run, but rather that because CR was so popular it was decided QOS would be a direct “continuation” where Bond was still behaving impulsively and making mistakes, also continuing how CR discarded old tropes and characters like Q and Moneypenny. I think EON realized that didn’t quite work given its mixed reception. Also because of the four year gap and the 50th anniversary, it made more sense to reintroduce Craig’s Bond as being a 00 veteran that likely had a bunch of adventures akin to DN-DAD, but more in spirit rather than literally.

    And I’m glad SF turned things around. I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films. CR was an exceptional Bond film, and should always remain as such.
    QoS did show character growth, as opposed to the following two films, which had, if at all, character jumps from one film to the other. And it would have been very easy to build on the immensely strong foundation Craig established in his first two films, develop the character further slowly, and re-introduce old tropes in a slower and more natural way. As it would have been very easy to show a more "natural" evolution from "our organsiation" to "Quantum" to "Spectre".
    All those doors were wide open after QoS. But someone high up must have decided they got so badly burned by QoS (I wonder how?) that they went for a denial route.

    In a lot of ways QOS felt like a step backwards with Bond to me, as if he had to relearn what he already did in CR but through a different manner, kind of like how Chris Pine’s Kirk did in the second Trek film just because the first film was popular enough that the filmmakers wanted to play the same beats. The frustrating thing in QOS is that it felt even more contrived, like how Judi Dench accuses Bond of shooting a fellow agent of his point blank and he never replies to that, giving M more reason to think Bond has gotten out of control.
    And then what about Bond in SF? He basically seems to have learned not a lot even though he´s supposed to be seasoned.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I can see growth in his weariness, being far less the rough and impulsive novice in CR. He resembled the latter era Fleming Bond with more of that cynicism. I do like that when he’s killing his lead it’s not through his aggressive defense but through his failure to hold on to the guy’s arm. Oopsie!
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,022
    Grammy awards tonight. We know Billie will perform but since she just released a new song incl. music video it's more likely she's gonna perform that one and not the NTTD track.

    BTW, she's up for six Grammys. Not bad for a teen.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    That’s because Craig has played two iterations of Bond in a way.

    He played “Reboot Bond” for two films.

    In Skyfall he was back to playing “franchise Bond” because it was implied that he had seen his share of action between QOS and SF. Even the the exploding pen line was a nod to the franchise as a whole it kind’ve brought elements of past Bond films into the Craig continuity. The DB5 in storage WITH gadgets is also proof of this.

    So the Adele song is more in line with “franchise Bond” because Mendes sort of intended to blur the lines between the old and new, thus establishing Craig Bond as the same man from the previous 20 films pre CR.

    I would’ve preferred both from the interpretation of Bond and the music to stick in the reboot phase that we had from his first two films. Even if I don’t like AWTD that much it at least fits the intention of the filmmakers at the time.

    The point of the end of CR was that Bond had become the fully formed person that we were introduced to in DN. I don’t think the original plan in 2006 was that “reboot Bond” would be a thing for Craig’s entire run, but rather that because CR was so popular it was decided QOS would be a direct “continuation” where Bond was still behaving impulsively and making mistakes, also continuing how CR discarded old tropes and characters like Q and Moneypenny. I think EON realized that didn’t quite work given its mixed reception. Also because of the four year gap and the 50th anniversary, it made more sense to reintroduce Craig’s Bond as being a 00 veteran that likely had a bunch of adventures akin to DN-DAD, but more in spirit rather than literally.

    And I’m glad SF turned things around. I don’t think I would have been happy with Craig’s run just being the same guy we saw in CR, without any of the character growth and never reintroducing the many other elements that’s associated with the older films. CR was an exceptional Bond film, and should always remain as such.
    QoS did show character growth, as opposed to the following two films, which had, if at all, character jumps from one film to the other. And it would have been very easy to build on the immensely strong foundation Craig established in his first two films, develop the character further slowly, and re-introduce old tropes in a slower and more natural way. As it would have been very easy to show a more "natural" evolution from "our organsiation" to "Quantum" to "Spectre".
    All those doors were wide open after QoS. But someone high up must have decided they got so badly burned by QoS (I wonder how?) that they went for a denial route.

    In a lot of ways QOS felt like a step backwards with Bond to me, as if he had to relearn what he already did in CR but through a different manner, kind of like how Chris Pine’s Kirk did in the second Trek film just because the first film was popular enough that the filmmakers wanted to play the same beats. The frustrating thing in QOS is that it felt even more contrived, like how Judi Dench accuses Bond of shooting a fellow agent of his point blank and he never replies to that, giving M more reason to think Bond has gotten out of control.

    I've always found it funny how in CR and QoS Craig's young and sprightly and then SF roles around and he's aged significantly and "lost a step". Craig's arc throughout his films is inconsistent, IMO. I've also always laughed how in CR and QoS they make Craig look beat up and battered after a fight or action sequence, but in SF and SP he has a fight with someone link Hinx but doesn''t have a scratch on him.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,022
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    I've always found it funny how in CR and QoS Craig's young and sprightly and then SF roles around and he's aged significantly and "lost a step". Craig's arc throughout his films is inconsistent, IMO. I've also always laughed how in CR and QoS they make Craig look beat up and battered after a fight or action sequence, but in SF and SP he has a fight with someone link Hinx but doesn''t have a scratch on him. [/quote]

    +1
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Craig's fine in SP; no problems there. But that should be for another thread.

    So what did you all think of Billie's performance on the Grammys?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Just looked it up now, @4EverBonded. That was nice.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2020 Posts: 12,480
    Song of the year for her and her brother!


    Seems Bond could not get a hotter singer for this film. Hot, hot, hot ... whether you like her singing or not.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Very lana del Rey esque
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 833
    Just incredible to see them win -- and indeed, a huge coup for Bond. I can't believe all this film now has going for it, after the road it's taken to get here. Can't wait to hear their tune.

    Congrats Billie and Finneas!
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Just a reminder that this is a thread to discuss Billie Eilish and her contribution to the world of Bond.
    Please leave comments for past Bond film discussion in the appropriate topic.
    :-bd
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    As a marketing exercise, this could not be going any better.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,022
    Billie/Finneas Grammy Awards 2020:

    Album of the Year
    Song of the Year
    Best New Artist
    Record of the Year
    Best Pop Vocal Album

    She is the first artist to sweep the top awards since 1981 and the youngest artist to win album of the year.

    And brother Finneas won:

    Producer of the Year, Non-Classical
    Best Engineered Album, Non-Classical









    Now we can only hope the Bond track is a damn good one.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    vzok wrote: »
    As a marketing exercise, this could not be going any better.

    +1
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    They both seem really likeable and bizarrely normal
This discussion has been closed.