Britain's role in the Cold War

Pierce2Daniel

Hey

I studied this in school years ago but have recently been doing some more reading about all of this. The Cold War was essentially a battle between the USSR and the Americans. With the USA trying to contain the threat posed to their power and to international security by the growing developments in the USSR.

What then was Britain's role here? They were left bankrupt after WW2, were they therefore important in coaxing the Americans to follow the example they had already set? I imagine they were afraid that Stalin's growing influence in Eastern Europe would soon affect Western Europe and threaten Britain's own economical and social structures.

But considering the battle was between the two big superpowers themselves, what was Britain's role? I imagine spying on the enemy's nuclear prowess was a big thing. Were they then reporting to the American's with this info?

DarthDimi

My insights in this are very limited but I understand Britain's role in the Cold War is often at risk of being overstated. When reading Fleming, one gets the sense that the global power of the Empire was crumbling and somehow Fleming struggled to cope with that. Many a cultural analyst says he devised Bond's supertalents as a compensation for that. Bond would ultimately save the day in many cases where the Americans fell short or at least he would downplay their influence in certain conflicts (despite having them come to Bond's rescue occasionally). Furthermore, Orlov possibly nailed it when he said that the "British have only a token force."

Again I must emphasise that I'm far from being a specialist in these matters. I could be mistaken so corrections are welcome if so required. Still, I believe that what we see in TND - and I know this is a post-Cold War film - is utterly over the top. The British fleet versus the Chinese army? With all due respect, that's like sending a few cats to battle a hundred hungry Rottweiler dogs. I'm only using this example to demonstrate, hopefully with some correctness, that us Bond fans, especially foreign Bond fans like myself, could easily get too big an impression of the British war machine post-WWII through the Bond films and Fleming's patriotic (or might the word chauvinistic not be more accurate?) overemphasising of MI6's weight on Cold War affairs.

CommanderRoss

First, the Cold War was a powerstruggle between two idealistic power blocks, not just 'the US and Russia'. Yes, the 'West'was lead by the US, but England, France and especially Western Germany (Bundesrepublik Deuitschland) had quite an influence as well.
Especially in the first two decades the British and French armies had quite a punch to pack.
Don't forget that France and Britain had and have their own nukes. Other then the soviet states the western countries did have quite some influence on world politics. See also the Suez crisis

TheWizardOfIce

DarthDimi wrote:

Still, I believe that what we see in TND - and I know this is a post-Cold War film - is utterly over the top. The British fleet versus the Chinese army? With all due respect, that's like sending a few cats to battle a hundred hungry Rottweiler dogs.

One of the biggest flaws of TNDs script. From Carvers point of view doesnt starting a war between the US and China make mores sense? After all the Yanks really couldnt give a toss about things that dont involve them so if its viewers hes after why not go for the American audience by tailoring the conflict for them?

Not to mention that the idea that we would actually go out there and fancy taking on China is risible. We could barely beat an Argie conscript rabble so how are we going to take on the biggest army in the world after 15 years of further army cuts?

If the events of TND played out for real the most we would do is slag China off in the UN. We might and try to lobby the Yanks to back us in attacking them but they would tell us where to go.
No one is going to go nuclear for a sunken ship, especially as the Chinese will deny it.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

The US get involved in plenty of affairs where we have no place. Being the hegemonic international power, that is a responsibility we hold. Though it is quite often that we will march to the rescue (or lack there of) for our own gain while pretending to act like we are shining knights in armor riding to spread chivalry to the land.

DarthDimi

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

DarthDimi wrote:

Still, I believe that what we see in TND - and I know this is a post-Cold War film - is utterly over the top. The British fleet versus the Chinese army? With all due respect, that's like sending a few cats to battle a hundred hungry Rottweiler dogs.

One of the biggest flaws of TNDs script. From Carvers point of view doesnt starting a war between the US and China make mores sense? After all the Yanks really couldnt give a toss about things that dont involve them so if its viewers hes after why not go for the American audience by tailoring the conflict for them?

Not to mention that the idea that we would actually go out there and fancy taking on China is risible. We could barely beat an Argie conscript rabble so how are we going to take on the biggest army in the world after 15 years of further army cuts?

If the events of TND played out for real the most we would do is slag China off in the UN. We might and try to lobby the Yanks to back us in attacking them but they would tell us where to go.
No one is going to go nuclear for a sunken ship, especially as the Chinese will deny it.

Precisely! The script would have been better, IMO, had the British sent Bond to investigate because they couldn't stand a chance in a military conflict. Of course I'm not going to rewrite the script just out of improvisation right here and now. They would have to insert something to give Carver the chance for gain from the initial incident and its consequences but I can't think of something this very moment. Either way, the idea of a "global war" involving British seamen and some Chinese pilots seemed utterly incredulous at the time. I think Bieber's nocturnal escapades would still receive more media attention, sadly enough.

Pierce2Daniel

It seems to me that after WW2, Europe was left exhausted and weak which therefore left the USA and the USSR as the two largest superpowers. Britain's fears seem to be that in there weakened state they may fall foul of the Soviets. Churchill's main aim was to not let Britain fall within the Iron curtain.

TheWizardOfIce

DarthDimi wrote:

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

DarthDimi wrote:

Still, I believe that what we see in TND - and I know this is a post-Cold War film - is utterly over the top. The British fleet versus the Chinese army? With all due respect, that's like sending a few cats to battle a hundred hungry Rottweiler dogs.

One of the biggest flaws of TNDs script. From Carvers point of view doesnt starting a war between the US and China make mores sense? After all the Yanks really couldnt give a toss about things that dont involve them so if its viewers hes after why not go for the American audience by tailoring the conflict for them?

Not to mention that the idea that we would actually go out there and fancy taking on China is risible. We could barely beat an Argie conscript rabble so how are we going to take on the biggest army in the world after 15 years of further army cuts?

If the events of TND played out for real the most we would do is slag China off in the UN. We might and try to lobby the Yanks to back us in attacking them but they would tell us where to go.
No one is going to go nuclear for a sunken ship, especially as the Chinese will deny it.

Precisely! The script would have been better, IMO, had the British sent Bond to investigate because they couldn't stand a chance in a military conflict. Of course I'm not going to rewrite the script just out of improvisation right here and now. They would have to insert something to give Carver the chance for gain from the initial incident and its consequences but I can't think of something this very moment. Either way, the idea of a "global war" involving British seamen and some Chinese pilots seemed utterly incredulous at the time. I think Bieber's nocturnal escapades would still receive more media attention, sadly enough.

Couldnt they just have recycled the plot of YOLT? China sinks an American ship and it threatens to kick off. We send in Bond because we hacked signals coming from Carvers satelite or something?

DarthDimi

Well, I suppose they could have. The similarities between YOLT and TND were obvious enough as it was. ;-)

I thought it was, again, 'funny' how the British got so personally involved in Graves' plan to initiate a war between the two Koreas. At that point it was established that he was a Korean with a facelift so no more official links to the British if they so desired. Sure, he was going to conquer the Far-East first and then proceed to the rest of the world... I'm sorry. It just... it doesn't work. #-o

Murdock

DarthDimi wrote:

Well, I suppose they could have. The similarities between YOLT and TND were obvious enough as it was. ;-)

I thought it was, again, 'funny' how the British got so personally involved in Graves' plan to initiate a war between the two Koreas. At that point it was established that he was a Korean with a facelift so no more official links to the British if they so desired. Sure, he was going to conquer the Far-East first and then proceed to the rest of the world... I'm sorry. It just... it doesn't work. #-o

Good thing we don't have solar death rays. :))

DarthDimi

Murdock wrote:

Good thing we don't have solar death rays. :))

My my, I'm not even sure Bond could win from these guys:
:D


Reminds me a little of CR67 though. ;-)

Murdock

DarthDimi wrote:

Murdock wrote:

Good thing we don't have solar death rays. :))

My my, I'm not even sure Bond could win from these guys:
:D


Reminds me a little of CR67 though. ;-)

How right you are @DarthDimi. ;)

James Bond needs Duke Nukem's help for this one.
B-)