Rank the composers

2

Comments

  • Posts: 6,432
    1. Barry - A genius.
    2. Martin
    3. Arnold
    4. kamen - LTK soundtrack improved over time for me.
    5. Hamlisch - Simply for the Bond77 theme.
    6. Newman
    7. Conti -FYEO Ok at times then terrible.
    8. Serra - Read that the better themes in GE were written by a different composer, found the soundtrack quite dull at times.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    I really don't understand people who would put Arnold above Newman. You guys are delusional.

    Again. Casino Royale's score. I don't have anything against Newman and yes, I would argue he's probably the better composer of the two, but Arnold made a better Bond score. Get the difference?

    Agreed. Newman is the better composer I guess but he just doesn't have the passion for the Bond style that Arnold has. That alone puts Arnold out in front for me.

    Also agreed about Eric Serra, @StirredNotShaken. Not the best Bond score and definitely has it's weaknesses but far from the abomination many claim it to be.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    1) Barry - Duh.

    2) Martin - Simply stated, the best non-Barry Bond score.

    3) Hamlisch - I really don't feel too guilty about this pleasure although I don't think I'd be blaring it at stoplights.

    4) Arnold - He's a tough one to rank, that's for sure. He has a much larger body of work than many of the "one and done" composers. That is a detriment to him however. If I could compile my favorite tracks from all of his Bond scores and make a "Pachazo Best Of Compilation" then he would rank at number two on this list. I cannot forget the times that he has left me scratching my head though. I also cannot forget the times where he has completely lost me. A roller coaster, this one.

    5) Conti - Some great moments in here but also some really bizarre choices. Overall it works but I'm glad that he only did one.

    6) Newman - Nothing terribly offensive but nothing truly memorable either. As average as it gets.

    7) Kamen - I'm placing him this low because I don't feel that he did enough to differentiate his prior work to this piece.

    8) Serra - There are some good moments to be found here but it's a weak effort compared to all of the others.

    9) Norman - In retrospect he was like the opening band for John Barry. No one hated him but once the main act took the stage he was completely forgotten.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    1st : Sir John Barry

    2nd : David Arnold

    3rd : George Martin



    4th : Marvin Hamlisch
    5th : Eric Serra
    6th : Thomas Newman
    7th : Michael Kamen
    8th : Bill Conti
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 17,762
    1. Barry: My all time favourite composer. I remember the first time i saw OHMSS. I was in a period of listening to very much late 60's music, and I couldn't help but noticing how much this score fits the late 60s. But it's not only a in-period correct soundtrack, it's a good score in general. The same goes for all his scores. They are just very good soundtracks!

    2. Arnold: I've always had trouble with his scores. There are some tracks that are just all over the place, but there's also many good one's. Concerning his Brosnan-era scores: Weren't most film scores around that time very much like that? Most of what I remember from 90s/ early 00s scores was just that - they were all over the place.

    3. Conti: I have a soft spot for 70s/80s music and for FYEO. There is too much disco on some tracks, but overall there is some good music here. The "Submarine"- track is one of my best memories from FYEO.

    4. Hamlisch: I really found this score perfect for TSWLM. Bond 77 is one of the best non-Barry tracks.

    5. Martin: I really like this score. Very much a time period piece, just like Conti's and Hamlisch's scores, but I think that is why I remember these three scores so well. There's not many scores (Bond and non-Bond) I can say the same about.

    6. Newman: I've listened a lot to this score; maybe even more than some of Barry's. The trouble is that it just don't win me over. I need to remember tracks to really enjoy the score, and there's just two or three songs that stuck. I have no doubt if he does one more, it will be more Bondian, but for now, I just can't rank him top five.

    7. Kamen: Same problem as with Newman: good effort, but nothing I really can remember. Too American?

    8. Serra: I've never liked this. Everything I remember from this score is hollow dark sounds.

    9. Norman: The score has actually stopped me from seeing Dr. No several times. I usually just go straight to FRWL and continue from there.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,494
    I'd just like to comment on the fact that, when defending Serra, I made my case in a paragraph, made my argument, and all I got back from someone was "You're a joke, I'm going to laugh at you." Is it wrong that it's bothering me? I try to have constructive discussions on here, anyone who's spoken with me knows that, so for that to be someone's response is a bit hurtful. Please try to keep that in mind for future, not just with me, but with everyone on the forum. Thank you to thelivingroyale for defending me there.

    Sorry if I hurt your feelings, and you shouldn't take it personally as it should be no surprise to anyone. I've been laughing at any and everyone who feels the way you do around here for 5 years, and I will be again at the next person too. In your case, you made some very strong assumptions and statements in defending the indefensible, yes of course you can have your opinion and I will explain my position with plenty of facts to "back my smack". If you have any further issue, please, feel free to flag my post and register your complaint with the mods. Meanwhile, here's my list for any and everyone to like or dislike, or laugh at for that matter.

    1. John Barry- Along with Miklos Rosza, I firmly agree with every opinion that John Barry Prendergast is the greatest film composer of all time and as I'm fond of saying, the Mozart of his time. He's an immortal whose music will be relevant as long as human society exists. Then. Now. Forever.

    2. George Martin- he may not have a songwriting credit for the infamous and classic title song, but I can't imagine anyone else stepping into Barry's void and producing what he did here. Everything from the funky urban vibe to the eerie strings thematically fits the movie to the tee and he uses Barry's methods of weaving in the title song and one or two others he composed. As @chrisisall states, original yet very Bondian and I don't think any composer has yet managed this most difficult feat as well as Martin.

    3. David Arnold- as folks have been pointing out, DA is an acknowledged disciple of Barry and considered him his mentor. While he has produced some terrific scores that have been very Bondian (TND, CR, QOS), his experiments with techno in an effort to establish his own style of Bondian sound have not quite worked out and both the TWINE and DAD soundtracks make that impression. Kudos for his excellent efforts but he is no more at Barry's level than anyone else. He finally started to hone in on something with CR and QOS, using the techno more sparingly and being smarter about it's use, and if indeed the rumors of EON being sour on Thomas Newman are true, we may see him return sooner than later. I would be equally interested in seeing how he's grown as a composer now that he's had some time to reflect on what he's done and how he could improve or change his direction.

    4. Michael Kamen- I understand as a musician and composer why some see him as a generic 80's action kind of composer and that his big, bombastic sound in LTK differed little from his other efforts such as the "Die Hard" series. But what differentiates Kamen from the others we'll get to next is that like Martin and Arnold, he was also a fan of Bond and Barry and he not only understood what kind of sound Bond fans wanted to hear, he was also highly enthusiastic about the opportunity. His use of flamenco styled guitar really matches the Latin flavor of the adventure, and when he turns the London Philharmonic loose on the Bond theme- wow!

    5. Thomas Newman- this starts the run of composers for whom scoring a Bond film was more of a job and less a labor of love. This gets proven to be especially true in his case when you notice the pronounced lack of the Bond theme and are told that he was not going to include the title song anywhere in his soundtrack until it was suggested that he should do these things. Technically Newman is a pro's pro and his use of techno/electronica is much advanced over Arnold's, but in respect to content a focused listen to his SF soundtrack reveals that he thought he too could reinvent the Bond sound and that's why this effort mostly doesn't match up with Martin, Arnold, and Kamen in understanding that the Bond sound is what people truly want. Or should if they truly understand anything about Barry's legacy for these films. I think he gets that now, and I'd expect better of him next time, if there is a next time.

    6. Marvin Hamlisch- other than crafting a timeless title theme, Hamlisch shows proper respect for Barry in making use of it thematically within the film. He puts a modern for the time disco spin on the Bond theme in "Bond 77" to match the atmosphere of the current social climate. I give him credit for the attempt, but the disco and his keyboard use here are an acquired taste. Some like it, but if you hate disco it's annoying as all hell.

    7. Monty Norman- as stated, he wrote the timeless Bond theme but it's Barry's orchestration and later use that breathed life into the notes. Otherwise the soundtrack is unremarkable and often not very good.

    8. Bill Conti- when you revel in the glory of "Gonna Fly Now" like I do as a native of the Philadelphia suburbs, you realize that Conti is capable of greatness. Some of the things he does are very good such as the submarine scene and the climb up to St. Cyril's. The title song gets use. Otherwise it's more a disaster than not. The gunbarrel theme is nearly identical to Martin's, and his choice of instruments seem very out of place as disco and the brass/keyboard sounds were by then passe and old news. It fails on many levels, but not as much as what was to come in 1995.

    9. Eric Serra- Severely underrated? Nope. Unfairly criticized? Please! In Jon Burlingame's book about Bond music, Serra states that he was given little to no direction from the producers. Rather than going with music that fit the Bondian style, he figures he can do what he wants and this soundtrack becomes the giant, toilet clogging dump of the entire series. I'm sure Serra would have done a lot of things differently and better in hindsight, because in all fairness he is a much better composer than this effort shows, but this soundtrack is still unacceptable and far below his own standards. So many things are wrong for the movie and antithetical to the Bond legacy. Pastiche please! The gun barrel theme is too radical and does not work. No use of the superior title theme (the best music in the entire film) anywhere. I wish Bono and Edge had done the soundtrack, unlike Serra they were Bond fans who weren't looking to do anything but pay their own tribute to Barry and the Bond legacy. Sparing use of the Bond theme that actually has to be rewritten for the tank chase by John Altman. So many atonal and dark sounds that do not fit despite claims to the contrary. The orchestration regarding the strings anywhere in the film is all wrong and his romantic themes sound like elevator muzak. No heart, no soul, no passion. More fitting for the likes of Bourne and "La Femme Nikita" and a huge mistake. The ONLY thing that Serra does well is in the PTS where you hear the Bond theme on timpani drums, this really works as far as originality but after that it is what it is. So, @StirredNotShaken, these are clear reasons why most people are highly critical of this soundtrack and why they hate it. No one hates this sonic abortion because they hate Serra- they just hate his work in this particular film. Like most of the very, very few who like this work such as yourself, there is very little if any factual basis in either musical theory nor history to back up this opinion. So I don't see where you've made any case for anything you've written other than you think you've made one, and think you speak for many who don't share your opinion because it fits your view. Feel free to rebut me if you wish, and I will seriously try to be on my best behavior in my response.

    Warmest regards,

    Sir Henry
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 5,997
    There is John Barry, and then there's anyone else. IMHO, of course. But if I have to do a ranking, here goes :

    1) John Barry, of course
    2) David Arnold
    3) Thomas Newman.
    4) Bill Conti. Yes, I know I'm in the minority here, but I loved his score.
    5) George Martin
    6) Marvin Hamlisch
    7) Michael Kamen (loses point because his score is a bit too similar to his Lethal Weapon and Die Hard scores)
    8) Eric Serra
    9) Burt Bacharach (not Bondian, I know, but funny score)

    And waaaaaay down at the bottom : Michel Legrand.

    EDIT : Oooops, I forgot Monty Norman. I put him between Martin and Hamlisch. Granted, he created the Bond Theme, but it was John Barry who turned it into a hit. And his music was too descriptive for my taste. Case in point : the tarentula scene. That's guaranteed to make an audience laugh every time.
  • Posts: 2,402
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-36X9pc4rnA

    Another reason I think Serra's score was much better than people have made it out to be. Again, I'm not saying every piece was a fucking opus, but what the hell is wrong with this?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-36X9pc4rnA

    Another reason I think Serra's score was much better than people have made it out to be. Again, I'm not saying every piece was a f***ing opus, but what the hell is wrong with this?
    Not much IMO.
    I actually LIKE the score, a lot better than the Seventies disco scores. I really don't get all the hate on this. It's not my favourite, but it's SO far from the worst IMHO.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    The GoldenEye score was genius for 1995. I hate to say it, but Barry by the mid 90's was getting repetitive with his sound. While that's fine, his scores weren't very intuitive. I for one love Serra's score. +1 more @StirredNotShaken! ;)

    As for my Rank.

    1.John Barry
    2.David Arnold
    3.Eric Serra
    4.Michael Kamen
    5.George Martin
    6.Thomas Newman
    7.Bill Conti
    8.Marvin Hamlisch
  • Posts: 2,402
    That dissonant chord when Bond is shot with the dart along with everything that builds up to it. Plus that piano piece during Alec's monologue... it's beautiful stuff. And yeah, the disco stuff really grates me. I'm considering putting Martin and Kamen (ESPECIALLY Kamen, there's no way in hell he should be so low and I'm kicking myself for putting him at #6) higher. Serra did a lot of great stuff in that score. The overture, the Severnaya suite, Whispering Statues, and the theme used in the Archives/Cradle fights (same piece, can't remember the title) are all just brilliant pieces of score and some of my favourite in the series. People, I find, just take the bad parts (e.g. the Ferrari/DB5 "Jerry Was a Race Car Driver" ripoff, which could've been much worse than it was, and the ear-rape end credits song) and try to say the whole score was like that.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ah Run, Shoot and Jump. Most of the GE score bashers hate it because of "Ladies First" Which yeah it's crap but the rest of the score is good. Listen to the Leon: The Professional Score. It's very good and atmospheric. Also as I've pointed out before on other threads the high pitch techo-hit sound effect used in the finale of "The GoldenEye Overture" was actually a music sample used from the Goldfinger gunbarrel. Just high pitched and filtered. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Murdock wrote:
    I hate to say it, but Barry by the mid 90's was getting repetitive with his sound.
    While I *might* agree to a degree here, his TLD ('87) score was one of the best in the entire Bond series IMO.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    I hate to say it, but Barry by the mid 90's was getting repetitive with his sound.
    While I *might* agree to a degree here, his TLD ('87) score was one of the best in the entire Bond series IMO.
    Oh no disagreeing with that. His 80's stuff was awesome. However in the 90's it felt like he wasn't really trying to outdo himself and played it safe with the string orchestra style. I've listened to his scores to "The Specialist" and "Mercury Rising". While there were some good things there. Most of it sounded stale throwaways from other scores he did.
  • Posts: 2,402
    But aren't we here to talk about them as Bond composers?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    But aren't we here to talk about them as Bond composers?

    Yes I sort of got off topic. :))
  • Posts: 3,333
    1. John Barry
    2. George Martin
    3. David Arnold
    4. Marvin Hamlisch
    5. Michael Kamen
    6. Thomas Newman
    7. Monty Norman
    8. Bill Conti
    9. Eric Serra
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I really love Bill Conti's score in FYEO. ''Runaway'' is definately one of my all time favourite Bond scores.
  • Posts: 6,396
    1. John Barry. Best Bond score is OHMSS but my favourite of all his film scores will always be Midnight Cowboy.
    2. Marvin Hamlisch
    3. Thomas Newman
    4. George Martin
    5. Bill Conti
    5. David Arnold
    7. Monty Norman
    8. Michael Kamen
    9. Eric Serra
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    1 John Barry
    2 Thomas Newman (Burt Bacharach goes here if we count him)
    3 Michael Kamen
    4 David Arnold
    5 George Martin
    6 Marvin Hamlisch
    7 Monty Norman
    8 Bill Conti
    9 Eric Serra
    10 Michel Legrand
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,139
    1. John Barry
    2. Eric Serra
    3. David Arnold
    4. Michael Kamen
    5. Marvin Hamlisch
    6. Bill Conti
    7. George Martin
    8. Monty Norman
    9. Thomas Newman
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    1. John Barry
    2. George Martin
    3. Marvin Hamlisch
    4. Bill Conti
    5. David Arnold (Craig years)
    6. Thomas Newman (SF)
    7. Eric Serra
    8. Michael Kamen
    9. Monty Norman
    10. Michel Legrand
    11. Thomas Newman (SP)
    12. David Arnold (Brosnan years)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    @bondjames
    I like the distinction you introduce between Arnold (CR, QOS) and Arnold (TND, TWINE, DAD). I think it's nothing if not fair to assert that his later work feels more mature, more dramatically balanced and less chaotic. He definitely brought the "x factor" to the 90s Bond, but for every ten seconds of solid cool Bond stuff, he also delivered minutes of trite, deafening and out-of-control, dissonant turmoil.

    CR, I feel, is where he started to treat his Bond music as a useful narrative tool and less as an expression of his own fanboyish excitement.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @DarthDimi. You've perfectly captured how I feel about Arnold's tenure. I agree that there is more balanced maturity in his last two scores - they feel more classic, timeless and melodic. His earlier sound always felt more discordant and noisy to me and I disliked his use of drums during that period. Having said that there are some great flourishes in his early Bond work, it's just not as prominent.

    While not my first choice, I'm open to him returning for B25 because I think the decade+ away may motivate him to bring something even better to the table.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited December 2018 Posts: 16,351
    1. John Barry
    2. David Arnold
    3. George Martin
    4. Michael Kamen
    5. Eric Serra
    6. Bill Conti
    7. Burt Bacharach
    8. Marvin Hamlisch
    9. Monty Norman
    10. Michel Legrand
    11. Thomas Newman
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    bondjames wrote: »
    While not my first choice, I'm open to him returning for B25 because I think the decade+ away may motivate him to bring something even better to the table.

    @bondjames
    I couldn't agree more. I'm confident, in fact, that having worked in other media and for productions of a vastly smaller scale, Arnold, upon returning to Bond, could prove less complacent and more innovative than ever before. He's pushing 60 and has been away from it all long enough to have lent himself a new perspective on things. The films themselves have undergone a remarkable tone shift too, mandating a different subset of musical attitudes. Putting it bluntly, a popcorn version of John Barry's greatest hits, like what he gave us in '97, simply won't do anymore. B25 could offer him the opportunity to re-invent himself, something he had already done, albeit in smaller doses, with CR.

    As for my current ranking, and taking the liberty of splitting a composer's contributions in two as suggested by @bondjames:

    1) Barry (obviously)
    2) Arnold (Craig era)
    3) Newman (SP)
    4) Kamen
    5) Conti
    6) Newman (SF)
    7) Arnold (Brosnan era)
    8) Hamlish
    9) Martin
    10) Serra
    11) Norman
    12) Legrand

    Bacharach's score is an oddity. It's brilliant but so incredibly different in what it set out to do, that I hesitate to include it in this list. I can put the musical genius of Bacharach on par with Barry's, but his "Bondian" efforts are almost the opposite of what the others have tried to accomplish.
  • Posts: 17,762
    Surprisingly easy list to make. My opinion of most of the scores and composers have been unchanged for a long time. Marvin Hamlisch and Bill Conti share the fourth place together, as I can only separate their scores by current mood. Lately I've been listening more to TSWLM. Earlier this year, FYEO got more playing time.

    1. John Barry
    2. George Martin
    3. David Arnold
    4. Marvin Hamlisch/Bill Conti
    6. Monty Norman
    7. Burt Bacharach
    8. Michael Kamen
    9. Eric Serra
    10. Michel Legrand
    11. Thomas Newman
  • LFSLFS
    edited July 2020 Posts: 40
    1. John Barry
    Every score that John Barry did is wonderful. Even The Man with the Golden Gun, of which Barry thought of as his weakest (which it probably is), is better than what almost every other film composer could come up with. His most extraordinary work was probably done in the 60s, but even that is a matter of taste (my favourite is Thunderball). A magnificent genius who elevated every film. He captured the essence of the film and made his melodies stay in your head not for days, but forever.

    2. David Arnold
    If you need a substitute for Barry, Arnold is your guy. His first score for Tomorrow Never Dies is a great start and his peak is Casino Royale, which rivals Barry. He understands the tone and intention of the film, the characters and their relationship and he gets to the gist of what a scene is trying to convey. I wish Arnold would come back in the near future.

    3. Michael Kamen
    In its minimalism, Kamen's score is impressively effective; it sounds like Mexico and danger. His underscoring technique underlines the tone of the film and the Americana atmosphere; the arrangements of the gun barrel sequence and the Bond Theme are some of the coolest. A highly underrated soundtrack for a highly underrated Bond film.

    4. George Martin
    Very dynamic, very fresh. George Martin incorporated the title song throughout the picture in a beautiful way like very few composers besides Barry. I don't think highly of the over-scoring during the final scene with Kananga, though (when Bond is tied up), or the largely silent boat chase sequence: it's not a very well-filmed chase, so it could have needed some musical help to make it look better.

    5. Monty Norman
    I guess this is controversial, but I accept the verdict. Norman was ultimately a songwriter, not a film composer, and it shows. But I will always love the songs in Dr. No: "Three Blind Mice", "Jump Up", "Underneath The Mango Tree"... they were developed with Byron Lee and his band. Also, without Norman, there wouldn't be the Bond Theme.

    6. Bill Conti
    Conti is a brilliant composer, no doubt. Some of the For Your Eyes Only score is great, some ideas don't quite work. The disco music during the car chase is great fun, during the ski chase it becomes a bit too much for me - this is Bond, not Rocky.
    I LOVE the title track sung by Sheena Easton.

    7. Marvin Hamlisch
    Sounds just a little too dated for me; the Bee Gee disco riffs are too prevalent and don't really fit the Bond world very well.
    His title song "Nobody Does It Better" is one of the best, though.

    8. Eric Serra
    I think Serra is the only composer to this day (if you exclude Norman's Bond Theme) where the producers intervened in the end and decided to opt for something different, because they were so disappointed with Serra's musical choice during the St. Petersburg chase.
    Some of the score is okay - like the Casino scene - , but it's almost too clichéd and there's no red thread that somehow connects the music. The techno tracks sound like they were taken from a PC game.

    10. Thomas Newman
    I'm sorry, I don't get it. Generic, boring and sounding like every other Hollywood movie today. Not memorable at all.



    The composers of unofficial Bond films:

    1. Burt Bacharach
    Typical Bacharach; it's not Bondian at all, of course, yet it fits the crazy film somehow. It's fantastic 60s lounge Easy Listening, not to be taken too seriously, but composed by a bonafide musical genius.

    2. Michel Legrand
    The worst. SO ill-fitting for Bond and so very fitting for the atrocious film the score was composed for. Sounds like cheap 80s soft porn, at best (or at least what I imagine 80s soft porn would sound like; I don't watch porn). The title song is laughable.
    Quite curious how bad the music is, given that Legrand was a very good composer.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    I haven't specifically focused on the scores while watching, so I might have to edit this ranking soon, but from what I can remember my ranking is this:

    1) Martin

    2) Barry
    3) Arnold (TND/DAD/CR)

    4) Conti
    5) Hamlisch
    6) Norman
    7) Kamen
    8) Serra





    9) Arnold (QoS/TWINE)
    10) Newman
    (but the blame perhaps goes more to the screenwriters/director etc. who decided to make horror movies instead of Bond movies, IMO)
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    John Barry - pretty obvious. no one, except maybe George Martin, comes close.
    George Martin - LALD is an excellent soundtrack that is unmistakebly Bond... with a groove.
    Marvin Hamlisch - TSWLM doesn't contain any spectacular musical cues but it still sounds like a Bond soundtrack and the title song alone earns him third spot.

    The rest range from bad to forgettable.
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