Star Trek (1966 - present)

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  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    It's amazing just how often Kirk violates the Prime Directive he lectures everyone else about.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited August 2022 Posts: 25,137
    Star Trek: STD S4 Episode 4 was cringe the worst of the entire history of ST.

    Episode 5 is better though I think I know who caused the anomaly already. There is way too much melodrama in this show and the future tech is a bit much both of these things harm the show overall.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Episode 5 is better though I think I know who caused the anomaly already. There is way too much melodrama in this show and the future tech is a bit much both of these things harm the show overall.

    Ohhh? Do tell.

    I burned through S4 without ever really speculating or going on forums at the time it dropped in the US, so I never heard about fan theories.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,137
    Episode 5 is better though I think I know who caused the anomaly already. There is way too much melodrama in this show and the future tech is a bit much both of these things harm the show overall.

    Ohhh? Do tell.

    I burned through S4 without ever really speculating or going on forums at the time it dropped in the US, so I never heard about fan theories.

    My hunch is
    those trying to solve the issue inadvertently create it, cause and effect.

    This is the only fan site I go on, well not entirely true as I occasionally go on AJB.

    YouTube can be a mine field when it comes to spoilers, I avoided spoilers with this series.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Before I watch TMP, I'll recap my thoughts on what I've watched since Season 1.

    Season 2 was a little weaker than the first, but not every season can have that hit rate. I began to notice a lot of episodes aped The Cage and even more aped Return of the Archeons after a while. Still very solid.

    Top 5:
    1. Mirror, Mirror
    2. Patterns of Force
    3. Bread and Circuses
    4. A Piece of the Action
    5. The Doomsday Machine

    Season 3 was significantly weaker than either, but I still wouldn't call it bad. It has enough enjoyable episodes in there. I seemed to be sympathetic to some of the more derided ones - I even liked Plato's Stepchildren and Turnabout Intruder!

    TOS overall is a 9/10. A truly great show in spite of it's various laughable flaws.

    1. All Our Yesterdays
    2. The Empath
    3. Spectre of the Gun
    4. Let This Be Your Last Battlefield
    5. The Enterprise Incident

    The Animated Series is quite good, particularly for a 70s cartoon. I'd argue Uhura is a stronger character here than she was on TV (sorry Sulu, you still didn't get much focus). The things holding it back are the lackadaisical facial expressions and the regulars voicing most of the alliens. And it gives TOS's constantly repeating musical cues a break too! I give it a 7/10.

    Top 5:
    1. The Counterclock Incident
    2. Yesteryear
    3. The Slaver Weapon
    4. The Jihad
    5. How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited August 2022 Posts: 25,137
    Star Trek: STD S4 Episode 6 now the ships computer is having some kind of melodramatic melt down :)) what are the writers doing. This episode was actually interesting for a few minutes, until cringe went to warp factor 10.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I recently binge watched The Orville Season 3 then followed it up with Strange New Worlds. Both filled me with immense joy that I've been missing from live action Star Trek in a long time. I'm looking forward to Lower Decks Season 3.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited August 2022 Posts: 25,137
    STD has got better with episodes 7 - 9 of Season 4 now they are focusing more on story rather than whiny drama. Watching episode 10 now.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I recently binge watched The Orville Season 3 then followed it up with Strange New Worlds. Both filled me with immense joy that I've been missing from live action Star Trek in a long time. I'm looking forward to Lower Decks Season 3.

    I need to finish S3 of The Orville thought the first few episodes were great, the budget has certainly improved. Once I finish STD I will binge watch the remaining episodes of SNW I think the whole season is now available in the UK on Paramount+.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,585
    I need to finish S3 of The Orville thought the first few episodes were great, the budget has certainly improved.
    I watched episode 4 just last night, it was a lot of fun. You could certainly see the money on the screen.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,137
    QBranch wrote: »
    I need to finish S3 of The Orville thought the first few episodes were great, the budget has certainly improved.
    I watched episode 4 just last night, it was a lot of fun. You could certainly see the money on the screen.

    The last episode I watched was a month or go maybe more, I unsubscribed to Disney+ for a while. I will most likely watch the first few episodes again. The Season Premier was great, loved the score it really channeled James Horner.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited August 2022 Posts: 25,137
    STD S4 episide 11, just when I thought things were improving this show hit an all time low, every character in this show honestly needs to get a grip, the 'feelings' of everybody even the bloody ships computer is laid on way too thick. Two episodes to go thankfully, it better be a half decent payoff.

    Edited: Finished the series, overall terrible full of plot armour. Worst season of Star Trek by some distance.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    I've now seen all six of the TOS-cast films.

    The Motion Picture has something really interesting themes, but it's so damn slow. Yes movie, I understand you have a budget now. I still don't need the 30 minutes of VFX shots and characters reacting to the VFX shots. The story just doesn't support the 2 hour 15 minute runtime. I like Spock's arc, but much like with McCoy's wilderness years, what got them from the end of TOS to where they are now is never developed. Kirk's conflict with Decker is good, though how things end for Kirk flows awkwardly into TWOK. 4/10.

    Still, despite the sequel being in effect a soft reboot, both explore the same idea of a midlife crisis in different stages. In TMP Kirk looks to recapture his glory days, while in The Wrath of Khan A more weary Kirk is confronted with all his mistakes from the past. Spock's characterisation also fits nicely with his epiphany in the prior film.
    Kirk's occasional wistfulness about having a normal relationship and life in TOS (most notably Naked Time and Conscience of the King) comes back in a great way here.

    This is, very controversiallly, probably my favourite. The pacing is much, much better, the character work is fleshed out and doesn't play second fiddle to the effects, and there's real tension and excitement. Khan is such a fantastic villain.
    I knew Spock's death was coming from way before I started Star Trek and I still shed a tear. Kirk's voice crack at the eulogy was tough stuff too.
    9/10.

    The Search For Spock certainly seems lesser when compared to TWOK, but I certainly still like most of the movie. The Enterprise crew rebelling in the first half hour is incredibly fun. Sulu and Uhura even get some good moments! I did prefer Kirstie Alley's Saavik, but Robin Curtis isn't bad. The problem there is more a reset in terms of how the character is written.
    By far my least favourite part of this film is how the almost father-daughter relationship between her and Spock last time gives way to her having (mind?) sex with his young self. Ugh. Thank God they didn't go through with the idea of having her be pregnant with his son.
    I know David's death is seen as a waste of potential by some, but I didn't mind the decision. The brutality of the death was a bit of a shock. The way it comes back in The Undiscovered Country is very effective,
    and it helps to make Spock's return feel less cheap. As does the destruction of the Enterprise, which was something I wasn't spoiled on beforehand, and it did hit me.
    6/10.

    The Voyage Home is very fun.
    While I loved the ending initially, and Kirk once again being 'Captain Kirk' certainly has a nice emotional component, I wondered if that reversion went against the themes of change and aging started in Wrath of Khan. But then I realised Kirk being an Admiral was never framed as something he had to accept at all - his deskbound status is tied directly to that feeling of fossilisation, and both Spock and McCoy tell him he needs to get back command of a starship.
    8/10.

    The Final Frontier is two or so more drafts away from being a good film.
    The premise of finding God is a little tiring after so many gods were the subjects of so many episodes of the show, and Eden was used directly in TOS (even though that was one of the worst episodes).
    Spock having a secret half-brother is soap opera level. Having said that, Sybok isn't a bad character, and he gives us by far the best scene of the film, him trying to make the Kirk-Spock-McCoy trio experience their worst pain.
    Overall, the second hour is much stronger than the first, with less out of place comedy. I was also struck by how much this film felt like TOS. Maybe the half regurgitated plot had something to do with it, but I still think it captures the show the best of all six movies with the cast. And the aforementioned trio's dynamic is captured very well too - there's a nice emotional core to Kirk's angst that would be better if it was more present throughout and the resolution wasn't somewhat played for comedy.
    5/10.

    The Undiscovered Country is a fantastic sendoff for these characters.
    Kirk's racism towards the Klingons made total sense to me; they took his son who he'd just finally started a relationship with away from him,
    and now he's an old man on the verge of retirement going back to an empty house.
    Although the plot would have had more impact if it was Saavik in Valeris's place as the traitor, as was originally planned,I can live with the way it is. Kim Cattrall isn't half bad in the role.
    Nice to see Sulu get a more substantive role for once. After decades driving the Enterprise, he finally gets his own command!
    Loved the callback to Checkov attributing every great thing to Russia with the Cinderella line, the forced laughter in the Klingon linguistics scene, Kirk "seducing" one last alien girl, Shatner hamming it up with a copy of himself, Rand getting an uncredited cameo on the Excelsior...
    Shoutout to the score. Has to be my favourite of the hexology.
    Even the ending of TWOK can't beat this film's final scene for me. Pitch. Bloody. Perfect.
    That final shot of them all on the Bridge, man:((
    9/10.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    STD S4 episide 11, just when I thought things were improving this show hit an all time low, every character in this show honestly needs to get a grip, the 'feelings' of everybody even the bloody ships computer is laid on way too thick. Two episodes to go thankfully, it better be a half decent payoff.

    Edited: Finished the series, overall terrible full of plot armour. Worst season of Star Trek by some distance.
    I'll see when I get there (eventually), but I struggle to believe it could be worse than TNG S1. That run of Episodes 2-7 was an utter, utter slog, and Justice was the worst episode of Trek so far IMO. Thankfully S2 was more hit than miss, and 3 is finally consistently good.

    Sidenote: I like Beverley too, but I kind of enjoyed Pulaski's ice by the end of S2. A bit of a shame she's gone.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2022 Posts: 8,188
    THE MOTION PICTURE was originally set to be a pilot episode of a new TV series. So if you wondered why it was so drawn out, there it is.

    TNG’s pilot sort of suffered from that too. It was written as an hour long episode stretched out to two by the demand of the studio. Roddenberry added Q to the script but it was still pretty bloated.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Encounter at Farpoint really needs a shortened re-edit. It was such a slog to get through.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    THE MOTION PICTURE was originally set to be a pilot episode of a new TV series. So if you wondered why it was so drawn out, there it is.

    TNG’s pilot sort of suffered from that too. It was written as an hour long episode stretched out to two by the demand of the studio. Roddenberry added Q to the script but it was still pretty bloated.
    Yeah, I was reading about Phase II. Can't say I mourn it overall; the recycled scripts for TNG weren't brilliant. Plus the TOS cast without Spock would have a gaping hole Xon couldn't fill.

    Can't imagine Farpoint without Q, he was by far the best part.

    Also, top 5s for TNG so far:

    S1
    1. Conspiracy
    2. 11001001
    3. The Big Goodbye
    4. Symbosis
    5. Datalore

    S2
    1. Q Who
    2. Elementary, Dear Data
    3. The Measure of a Man
    4. A Matter of Honor
    5. The Royale

    (One minor continuity question)
    McCoy in EaF. He's still in Starfleet at 137? Seems strange he'd hang on so long after the rest of the Enterprise crew retired. It's particularly weird Kirk would've folded then if he had the option of going on way longer. It was still a nice moment though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I don’t think they ever mention him being active in Starfleet. I always took it that he was already retired and was just there to take a look at the new ship that was named Enterprise.

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    I don’t think they ever mention him being active in Starfleet. I always took it that he was already retired and was just there to take a look at the new ship that was named Enterprise.
    Oh yeah, that would make sense.
    Still, the fact he continued on long enough to make Admiral isn't what I would've expected. Of course, Undiscovered Country was 4 years off from being made when he appeared.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I could see him being made head of Starfleet Medical sometime after the Enterprise was decommissioned. Wouldn’t surprise me if the EU books took that route.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    I could see him being made head of Starfleet Medical sometime after the Enterprise was decommissioned. Wouldn’t surprise me if the EU books took that route.
    Hm, could be.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited September 2022 Posts: 25,137
    Just had a pleasant surprise, I have bought both versions of Star Trek The Motion Picture that were available on Prime Video years ago. I was just looking at the box sets of Star Trek The Motion Picture: The Directors Edition 4K on Amazon, then I noticed my Standard Definition version of the Directors Edition has now become the Renastered version. Had a quick look on my mobile, the film looks amazing :x I will be watching that as soon as I am back home. I can't wait to listen to the film in Dobly Atmos.

    I also intend to buy this set when released next week...
    71XYt2vkbgL._SL1500_.jpg

    71aUdrmCV8L._SL1500_.jpg

    https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/107356/startrekmotionpicturedirectorsedition4kuhdcomplete.html
    The set gets an excellent review.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Screencap transfer comparisons between the 2009 blu-ray and new 4K remaster of THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY.

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,137
    .
    Screencap transfer comparisons between the 2009 blu-ray and new 4K remaster of THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY.


    Spock's colour tone looks more realistic, only viewing on my mobile.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Skin tones look far more natural for sure. Even the white collars on their uniform look white. I didn’t realize the 2009 blu-ray added a yellow filter.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,137
    Skin tones look far more natural for sure. Even the white collars on their uniform look white. I didn’t realize the 2009 blu-ray added a yellow filter.

    Natural was the word I was looking for, the Kirk image from 2009 his blood pressure looks sky high. The new images are a vast improvement.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Skin tones look far more natural for sure. Even the white collars on their uniform look white. I didn’t realize the 2009 blu-ray added a yellow filter.

    Natural was the word I was looking for, the Kirk image from 2009 his blood pressure looks sky high. The new images are a vast improvement.

    After spending an undisclosed amount of time in a Klingon prison, fighting aliens, scaling a mountain in sub zero weather only to fight his doppelganger and bluff his way out of not getting phasered, I'd imagine his blood pressure would be a little on the high side. :))
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    But it’s also Shatner, who seems to live his 90s as if he were still in his 30s. The guy is unstoppable!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    Looking much nicer and more natural. They've done a very good job with these.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,137
    Murdock wrote: »
    Skin tones look far more natural for sure. Even the white collars on their uniform look white. I didn’t realize the 2009 blu-ray added a yellow filter.

    Natural was the word I was looking for, the Kirk image from 2009 his blood pressure looks sky high. The new images are a vast improvement.

    After spending an undisclosed amount of time in a Klingon prison, fighting aliens, scaling a mountain in sub zero weather only to fight his doppelganger and bluff his way out of not getting phasered, I'd imagine his blood pressure would be a little on the high side. :))

    :)) you make some very good points, plus Kirk had Romulan ale in his system.
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