Star Trek (1966 - present)

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,007
    Watching Star Trek The Motion Picture: The Directors Edition 4K for the first time, wow I am gobsmacked what they have done here, the restoration is up there with some of the best.

    I am going to have to watch this new restoration side by side with the other versions of the film.

    The shot when the Enterprise has flown over V'Ger... they have altered the end of the fly over by having the Enterprise rotate 180 degree to face V'Ger, that's phenomenal.

    Just watched this last night and it truly is a presentation the film deserves.

    Love what they've done with it and the extra scenes really add to the story. A massively underrated film.

    I didn't appreciate it as a 13 year old back in 1979 when I saw it at the cinema. In fact I thought it was boring. (It wasn't Star Wars..)

    Now I consider it an epic and beautifully paced film. A film I just savour watching it. Much like I do with 2001: A Space Odyssey.

    Some really nice in depth extras as well to delve into. All together a really essential package.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    There is one scene in Star Trek The Motion Picture that is one of the greatest moments in cinematic history in 4K it enhances its greatness.

    Star Trek The Motion Picture in 4K is God mode, this film is amazing. I love Wrath of Khan though this film is better.

    Star Trek The Motion Picture is great art.

    Masterpiece of science fiction.
    Can't agree, I think TWOK is a much better film. The effects are great, but so much time is devoted to them that it beats the pace to a pulp. The character work is very half baked- Kirk's arc fizzles out, Spock and McCoy being where they are is never explained. Decker is only ever mildly annoyed with Kirk, or mildly snarky when Ilia dies. The cast spend ages just watching a screen. The whole environment is sterile, especially so for a film that claims to be about the human adventure. Khan has better pacing, better character work, better executed thematics. There's a sense of energy TMP doesn't have.

    And on a minor note, the uniforms are much better...

    They sort of look better (although they're a bit over-designed, with bits and pieces everywhere) but I'd much prefer to be wearing TMP uniforms if I was stuck on a starship for months at a time! Give me a lovely comfy short sleeve shirt over a constrictive turtleneck under a button-up tunic any day of the week! :)
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    "I think you should pursue it. First of all, she's a beautiful woman."
    Never change, Riker.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Thoughts on Redemption (4×26/5×01)
    Loved the Worf content, strongly dislike the Yar retcon. I think it really makes a mess of her decision to die with dignity in Yesterday's Enterprise to have her not only survive, but have that whole depressing offscreen fate.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    It’s a weird choice (and was actually pitched by Denise Crosby herself, oddly!). I do like Crosby as Sela, and wish we would have gotten more out of her beyond the few appearances she made.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited September 2022 Posts: 554
    Unification (TNG 5×07/5×08)
    - Great to see Spock again. Nimoy is fantastic, as always.
    - Mark Lenard's performance in Sarek's last scene is heartbreaking. The fact him and Spock didn't have a final reconciliation was a crushing, but effective beat, and the mind meld at the end of the episode is a very good cap.
    - Part I did feel stretched out. Obviously they were dying to end on Spock stepping out of the shadows, but the whole Enterprise B story feels superfluous.
    -It's interesting how Spock implies that the Klingon peace mission ended in tragedy for the Enterprise, when that doesn't really fit with the film. The TNG crew must not have had a full idea of the plot while writing this story.
    - I still have quite a distate for the retcon, but Sela is significantly better in Part II than she was in Redemption. The scene where she lays out their plan in her office was great stuff.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2022 Posts: 8,188
    -It's interesting how Spock implies that the Klingon peace mission ended in tragedy for the Enterprise, when that doesn't really fit with the film. The TNG crew must not have had a full idea of the plot while writing this story.

    I think Spock was alluding to his regret over what happened with Gorkon and how he essentially forced his shipmates into a situation that initially went sideways. So by TNG, he’s trying to avoid making that mistake again by forming an underground movement rather than using the same official channels.

    In fact the references to TUC I think were written in by Nimoy himself. The two parter came out a few weeks before the film and he slipped it in the episode partly because it would be a way to promote his film.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited September 2022 Posts: 554
    -It's interesting how Spock implies that the Klingon peace mission ended in tragedy for the Enterprise, when that doesn't really fit with the film. The TNG crew must not have had a full idea of the plot while writing this story.

    I think Spock was alluding to his regret over what happened with Gorkon and how he essentially forced his shipmates into a situation that initially went sideways. So by TNG, he’s trying to avoid making that mistake again by forming an underground movement rather than using the same official channels.

    In fact the references to TUC I think were written in by Nimoy himself. The two parter came out a few weeks before the film and he slipped it in the episode partly because it would be a way to promote his film.
    Ah, right. Though the talk of 'consequences' for the crew still feels more ominous than how things worked out to me.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,134
    STD S5 Teaser Trailer...
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited October 2022 Posts: 25,134
    Picard S3 Teaser Trailer...


    Talk about a one two punch at the end there.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Wow, looks impressive!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,134
    Great to see Amanda Plummer follow her father into Star Trek, the Enterprise F appears to been in the trailer also.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,134

    Brent spiner :))
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited October 2022 Posts: 554
    Belated TNG top 5s:

    S4
    1. Reunion
    2. Brothers
    3. Family
    4. Data's Day
    5. Future Imperfect

    S5
    1. Ethics
    2. The Outcast
    3. The Inner Light
    4. The First Duty
    5. I, Borg

    S5 was a little weaker than 3-4, but it certainly had it's share of standouts. S6 so far is back on top form.

    As of Episode 5, Deep Space Nine is pretty decent. I've heard it takes a while to get really good, like TNG, but the first season doesn't seem like it's gonna be as torturous.

    Apparently my love of the holodeck episodes is atypical...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2022 Posts: 8,188
    Agreed about S5 not being as good as 3 and 4. Supposedly part of it had to do with the head writer Michael Piller being away during the middle portion of the season after the Spock episode, because he was focusing on developing DS9. As a result, the episodes weren’t as sharp. It’s no coincidence your top 5 is from when Piller returned to TNG and gave it a needed boost.

    DS9’s first season is weak but decent and has necessary world building. I think it really takes off starting with S2 once they’ve figured out the characters better, and from then on it just build and builds into a better show.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited October 2022 Posts: 554
    I love random spoilers from Google bloody News of all things.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    DS9’s “Q-Less” isn’t great but it’s got one of my all time favorite lines from Q.

    qless191.jpg
    "An abysmal place, Earth. Oh, don't get me wrong. 1,000 years ago it had character. Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Watergate. Now it's just mind-numbingly dull."
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited October 2022 Posts: 554
    DS9’s “Q-Less” isn’t great but it’s got one of my all time favorite lines from Q.

    qless191.jpg
    "An abysmal place, Earth. Oh, don't get me wrong. 1,000 years ago it had character. Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Watergate. Now it's just mind-numbingly dull."
    I quite enjoyed that one, although Q's couple of abusive-ex moments were too much.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited November 2022 Posts: 554
    TNG S6 Top 5:
    1. Chain of Command Part II
    2. Tapestry
    3. Rightful Heir
    4. Ship In a Bottle
    5. Relics (discussion below)
    Seeing the original original Enterprise bridge did get me a little. The relief when Scotty survived the episode was something else.
    It physically pains me not to include Face of the Enemy or Fistful of Datas, but it was stiff competition.

    Descent (TNG 6×26/7×01)
    They were really close to doing something compelling with Data here, but it just goes way too silly once the Borg starts indoctrinating him in the cell. Lore's 'deaths scene wasn't bad though.
    DS9 S1 was definitely a much easier watch than I expected. Not spectacular, but pretty good.
    1. Duet
    2. Dax
    3. Progress
    4. Q-Less
    5. Emissary

    DS9 S2
    Fantastic trilogy of episodes. Unlike the majority of TNG two-parters, it managed to keep a sense of energy throughout. My only complaint is that the death of Li Nalas was kind of strange coming off Sisko's speech about living instead of dying for Bajor, but the fact the show managed to convince me he might not die in the first place is an achievement in itself considering how marked for death he was.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    “Face of the Enemy” is a great turn for Troi, which really illustrates how she could effectively use her empathic abilities as a spy. Also, bravo to Jellico for getting Troi in a uniform. I think she looks much better in one than the casual dresses. This was something Marina Sirtis had been lobbying for years and finally got in S6.

    If you already enjoy DS9 by its first season, then it’s gonna be smooth sailing from there. The opening trilogy of episodes was the show attempting for more serialized approach which will become more evident in later seasons that they stop using “to be continued”.

    Also, I think this clip is a really great demonstration of the chemistry the cast has:


  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    “Face of the Enemy” is a great turn for Troi, which really illustrates how she could effectively use her empathic abilities as a spy. Also, bravo to Jellico for getting Troi in a uniform. I think she looks much better in one than the casual dresses. This was something Marina Sirtis had been lobbying for years and finally got in S6.

    If you already enjoy DS9 by its first season, then it’s gonna be smooth sailing from there. The opening trilogy of episodes was the show attempting for more serialized approach which will become more evident in later seasons that they stop using “to be continued”.

    Also, I think this clip is a really great demonstration of the chemistry the cast has:


    Yeah, thay was a great scene.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited November 2022 Posts: 554
    TNG's firm belief in it's own brand of utopianism has led to some great moments in itself, but I'm really enjoying DS9's pseudo-cynicism too. Few things are easy in this show, and damn near nothing is clean.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The cynicism does bleed into S7 of TNG, mainly concerning the Maquis. Of course, it’s the last season before things really ramp for the Alpha Quadrant.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Kira: "You follow springball?"
    Nareel: "Religiously."
    This show has some great dialogue.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Dax definitely has more personality in S2 than she did in S1, and I'm a fan of it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2022 Posts: 8,188
    DS9 probably has my favorite set of female characters of all the Trek shows, from the main cast like Kira and Dax, and secondary characters like Keiko O’Brien and Winn Adami. Just a good combination of the right casting and writing.

    With Dax in S1, they were trying to write her as a wise old sage that Sisko would confide in. But they didn’t know how to work with that until they loosened up her character as fun loving that gambles and fights, yet still the “old man” Sisko comes to for guidance.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited November 2022 Posts: 554
    DS9, Boood Oath (2×19)
    So, so cool that they brought back each of the Klingon villains from TOS for this story./spoiler]
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited November 2022 Posts: 25,134
    Its taken me a while to get through Strange New Worlds Ep 8 The Elysian Kingdom. that was a tough watch and a total misfire the script was quite appalling.

    Ep 9 was great they have done tremendous job at making
    the Gorn terrifying.

    Ep 10 Season Finale I really love the production on this series, good episode this show is the best new Trek by far.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited November 2022 Posts: 554
    TNG S7 Top 5
    1. All Good Things
    2. Preemptive Strike
    3. The Pegasus
    4. Lower Decks
    5. Parallels
    Definitely a weaker season than 3-6, but it had it's share of classics for sure. AGT was a fantastic finale.

    As for Generations...
    The Enterprise-B prologue was really good. Loved Kirk's eternal desire to command juxtaposed with him knowing it was Harriman's place and not his, loved the callback to Chekov's days as an ensign, loved the reaction to Kirk's disappearance. My only gripe is that it's a little odd pacing wise considering the film as a whole. But I still thought it was great. I don't have an issue with Scotty being there and the Kirk reference in Relics - Pretty much every one of the TOS crew was thought dead on multiple occasions, including Kirk. In his heart, Scotty easily could have hoped he would come back once again.

    Quite enjoyed the HMS Enterprise scene. Nice to see Worf promoted, and it's really not beyond the pale that Riker would fuck with Worf a bit (he looks pretty cool in the DS9 style outfit). The reaction to Data doing exactly the same action to Beverly was really contrived though. It's obviously only like that to facilitate the emotion chip, which is...not so great. The Farpoint reference was cute and "oh shit" worked alright. The Stellar Cartography scene was decent too. Everything else was a misfire that made Data painful to watch.

    The destruction of the E-D was the other really good sequence of the film. Especially the crash. Tense and cinematic. By the way, the bridge looked great. Shame it's gone, but I'm looking forward to seeing the E.

    Soran was no great Trek villain, but McDowell does play him very well ("time is the fire in which we burn" was a pretty good line). The Nexus is incredibly underdeveloped as to what it actually is (You can time travel in addition to the fantasy?), and the plot holes it creates in regards to Picard choosing to go back when he does instead of various earlier points (the space station, to Robert and Rene, even back to the B, etc) are problematic.

    Speaking of Picard and his family, I don't object to the idea of them dying in principle and Stewart does alright with it, but incineration is pretty brutal. I wish his Nexus fantasy was a little more character based than just referencing Stewart's Christmas Carol, neat as it is. Beverly as his wife? Something archeology related maybe?

    And of course, there's Kirk. I'll be blunt, they botched it. He's in the film for the first 15 minutes and then totally disappears until the last 20 minutes. I certainly don't mind Kirk's ever present loneliness figuring into his Nexus dreamworld, but why a character we've never seen or heard of before, especially when they're fine with just having her appear as a silhouette? Why not Carol or David, or even a TOS flame? And the Enterprise not showing up at all is bollocks. Six films repeatedly showing how empty Kirk feels when he's not on the Enterprise bridge, and it's not in his fantasy? I know they couldn't get Nimoy or Kelley back, but it's weird they're not there either. It's a shame, because I actually think that scene with Kirk in the Nexus is really good and fitting for his arc - but the aforementioned absences make it feel incomplete.

    Kirk and Picard interacting is of course very cool, but him dying to a falling bridge like that really soured things. Shatner does his best with the last lines, but it still feels shitty. There's a little bit of pathos in Kirk's death prediction from TFF coming true in a sense (No Spock or McCoy, 80 years out of time, barely knows Picard), but again, it's just not satisfying. Now, not every death needs to be big and heroic obviously. Maybe an anti-climax could've worked for Kirk. But not this. Not with with villain Kirk has no connection to, in a plot where Kirk is totally inessential (he isn't even Picard's first choice to fight Soran!) and has minimal screentime. Picard leaving his body on Veridion III instead of bringing it back to Earth was a really weird choice on his part too. Will Spock, McCoy or Scotty ever know he wasn't dead at all?

    It's all just so frustrating. Kirk has become one of my favourite characters ever over five seasons and seven movies, and after the amazing culmination of TUC this is an underwhelming coda. I don't think the concept here was doomed to fail at all. It was the execution that dropped the ball.

    At least the last scene with Picard and Riker is good
    4/10
    .
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2022 Posts: 8,188
    You can imagine it was even more frustrating for Trek fans when Paramount released this trailer that at the very least made it look like Kirk would be appearing on the Enterprise-D.



    The writers even admitted that the best possible story for Kirk and Picard was unfortunately already done with “Yesterday’s Enterprise”.
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