John Dee, the original 007

forgotmyusername

Fascinating that a 15th century bearded Welsh genius was the original 007. He used the now famous signature to inform the then queen that letters were for her eyes only.

I know many learned members may already know this but for the less devoted to Bond history like myself it is a fascinating bit of trivia.

Enjoy: http://www.sirbacon.org/links/dblohseven.html

Jones_The_Bond

John Dee is a fascinating character. In 2004 two things were stolen from the Science Museum in London by 'a man in a long black coat' - Dr Dee's 'crystal ball' and a statement on the ball's use by the 17th century astrologer and botanist Nicholas Culpeper. I love that story. The thought that somewhere, someone, is rifling through the instructions in an attempt to use the thing.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Jones_The_Bond wrote:

John Dee is a fascinating character. In 2004 two things were stolen from the Science Museum in London by 'a man in a long black coat' - Dr Dee's 'crystal ball' and a statement on the ball's use by the 17th century astrologer and botanist Nicholas Culpeper. I love that story. The thought that somewhere, someone, is rifling through the instructions in an attempt to use the thing.

I love stories featuring mystery figures that are never identified, like the Poe Toaster who visited Edgar Allen Poe's grave every year on the writer's birthday:

"The shadowy figure, dressed in black with a wide-brimmed hat and white scarf, would pour himself a glass of cognac and raise a toast to Poe's memory, then vanish into the night, leaving three roses in a distinctive arrangement and the unfinished bottle of cognac. Onlookers gathered annually in hopes of glimpsing the elusive Toaster, who did not seek publicity and was rarely seen or photographed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe_Toaster

I would be honored to pick up the mantle, but don't like close to Baltimore. The last few years have seen no action by the Toaster, whoever they may be, which makes me wonder if the family chain has been broken, and our incumbent Toaster has died without an heir or someone chosen to continue on.

Whatever the truth, I love the mystery of it all. I think Poe would be proud. :)

forgotmyusername

Dee was a very weird and clever man...a person who believed in the super natural which went against his scientific principles. I loved the fact that Fleming knicked the 007 idea from him.

Dragonpol

This is just one of the theories on how 007 got his name, of course.

forgotmyusername

Dragonpol wrote:

This is just one of the theories on how 007 got his name, of course.

To be fair, 007 for the queen's eyes only from a 15th century spy, seems pretty clear cut. I mean 007 being used as a secret sign to pass on secret documents....ummm let me think....nah I think we have found our 007 origins here.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/2503023.stm

boldfinger

I was about to think, ´who cares´, but that´s really fascinating stuff to read! Thanks guys!

Samuel001

I'd known of this but never knew the entire story. Thanks for sharing.

Dragonpol

forgotmyusername wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

This is just one of the theories on how 007 got his name, of course.

To be fair, 007 for the queen's eyes only from a 15th century spy, seems pretty clear cut. I mean 007 being used as a secret sign to pass on secret documents....ummm let me think....nah I think we have found our 007 origins here.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/2503023.stm

I've also heard the theory that '007' came from a Rudyard Kipling short story about a train, that it also came from the wartime top secret files and memos Fleming handled in the Admiralty where the 'double-O' prefix was used to signify 'top secret', so I don't think we can at all certain about John Dee as the source for Bond's number.

forgotmyusername

Dragonpol wrote:

forgotmyusername wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

This is just one of the theories on how 007 got his name, of course.

To be fair, 007 for the queen's eyes only from a 15th century spy, seems pretty clear cut. I mean 007 being used as a secret sign to pass on secret documents....ummm let me think....nah I think we have found our 007 origins here.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/2503023.stm

I've also heard the theory that '007' came from a Rudyard Kipling short story about a train, that it also came from the wartime top secret files and memos Fleming handled in the Admiralty where the 'double-O' prefix was used to signify 'top secret', so I don't think we can at all certain about John Dee as the source for Bond's number.

This is of course is true but Kipling wasn't around in the 15th Century. Dee and his works would have been known to an old Eton boy...Dee's 007 came first and Fleming must have seen it...

Any way Dee is a fascinating man and I'm going to study him a bit further....

Dragonpol

forgotmyusername wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

forgotmyusername wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

This is just one of the theories on how 007 got his name, of course.

To be fair, 007 for the queen's eyes only from a 15th century spy, seems pretty clear cut. I mean 007 being used as a secret sign to pass on secret documents....ummm let me think....nah I think we have found our 007 origins here.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/2503023.stm

I've also heard the theory that '007' came from a Rudyard Kipling short story about a train, that it also came from the wartime top secret files and memos Fleming handled in the Admiralty where the 'double-O' prefix was used to signify 'top secret', so I don't think we can at all certain about John Dee as the source for Bond's number.

This is of course is true but Kipling wasn't around in the 15th Century. Dee and his works would have been known to an old Eton boy...Dee's 007 came first and Fleming must have seen it...

Any way Dee is a fascinating man and I'm going to study him a bit further....

I hope we read the fruits of your research soon. Good luck!