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There are a couple of references to rape in CR and TSWLM that are pretty horrible. Also, I've just finished reading GF and Bond's (i.e. Fleming's) attitude to lesbians and homosexuality isn't exactly enlightened...
One word: catharsis. I do not think I could or should be like James Bond, he is not a role model for me, neither are Oedipus or Hamlet or Faust.
I'd have to agree. Like the actor Jonathan Pryce (Elliot Carver) said, he never wanted to be James Bond when he was younger; perhaps his friend or something, but not the agent himself. That's interesting and blatantly truthful. I have to say that I agree - I'm about as far away from a James Bond-type figure as it's possible to get, I'd imagine. I'm even further away from, it than was the late great Bond scribe Sir Kingsley Amis!
In FRWL Fleming (as Kerim) says and I quote:
"Women long to be swept off their feet. In their dreams, they long to be slung over a mans shoulder, taken into a cave and raped".
As long as you don't take this sort of stuff too literally (somehow I'm not sure claiming that you "were making her dreams come true" will cut it in court) I don't think reading Fleming will make you any worse a person.
I don't think Fleming ever envisaged Kerim Bey as a role model.. It's part of the rough, barbaristic image Fleming is making of Kerim. And that makes it interesting, as Bond finds him a very aimable man, whilst he clearly is some sort of criminal.
On the other hand we all know Fleming himself had a bit of an'on the edge' sex life...
Kerim certainly wasn't a role model I agree (neither was Bond really) but I wouldn't go so far to say he was portrayed as unlikeable or villanous - despite the hideous story he tells. I don't remember Bond feeling uncomfortable around him (other than during the killing scene) or Fleming giving him any negative descriptions. He was seen as a flamboyant, aggressive man of the world. He was an ally and we were meant to be on his side.
Draco is interesting as he is a full on criminal whom Bond befriends rather than an official contact.
Agreed very much on that, BAIN.
And lets not forget Draco's thoughts on rape. Whether or not this is Fleming's view is debatable.
Thank you, kind @Samuel001 I'd be very happy for that potential eventuality. I'd happily gfist an artidcle to the main page at any time. All they have to do is approach me with what they'd like written by PM and I'll be very happy to carry it out. I've just subscribed to the email feed for the MI6 HQ Magazine - it puts the JBIFC to shame from what I've seen so far.
I have one question, though.
Is the article 'The Genesis of Colonel Sun' the same one as seen in the Titan 2005 reprint of the Colonel Sun comic strip of the same title?
The authors chart the origins of the continuation novels beginning with the overview of Fleming’s last Bond story “The Man With The Golden Gun” and Amis' involvement, through to the publication of “Colonel Sun” in 1968.
http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/comic_cs_review.php3
Thanks @Samuel001. I think they must be one and the same, though. I can't remember who wrote the Titan one, though I do have a copy of the book.
I'm not saying he was portrayd as unlikeable, on the contrary. Barbaristic isn't unlikeable, it's uncivilised. And I think that's a returning topic in Fleming's work. Draco, Kerim and even Quarrel are tough, uncivilised but highly likeable men with whom Bond can relate. Fleming does seem to have some interest in the 'noble savage'. But I guess that's just what beeing English was all abaut in those days ;-)
What did Draco say exactly?
''She explained to me later that she must have been possessed by a subconscious desire to be raped. Well'- this time he didn't smile- 'she found me in the mountains and she was raped- by me. The police were after me at the time, they have been for most of my life, and the girl was a grave encumbrance. But for some reason she refused to leave me.''
Page 55, Chapter ''The Capu''
I believe this is possibly what @TheWiz was referring to. But he has not been on this forum for a while now...
Than I suppose the average person on the social etiquette barometer...
Yikes!
We'll forget that one happened then.
Yes, and Fleming had Bond say/think some questionable things about rape and "semi-rape" too, let's not forget.
As for @TheWizardOfIce he has currently "resigned his commission" on here, but he may well return at some point in the future. Here's hoping as his debating skills are much missed around these parts.
Yes, I do hope so. When I joined last July, I managed to catch some of his contributions before he resigned. Very entertaining, and I'd like to seem him around here again.
a) a much more compelling and convinving author than Fleming
or
b) a very feeble-minded reader
It is not like those religious books. No one is brainwashed by Bond books. I hope.
I've talked to him a bit in private messages and he said he was just a bit bored with here right now and will come back when debates are a bit more interesting again. I've not heard from him since January 2014, though.
Ian was a good egg and he wrote the best spy-fiction ever concocted. One is at least a better person from the reading-enjoyment factor alone.
Well said @Timmer
Seconded.
Fleming was not discussing rape as the violent assault that it actually is, and which has nothing to do with sex.
He was IMO, using provocative language to explore sexual tension and dynamics.
Draco's woman above, admits to "a subconscious desire to be "raped"" by him.
Fleming does draw lines, maybe somewhat blurred, but the lines are there. ie Compare the Draco scenario, with a woman who is actually raped ie violently assaulted against her will, and traumatized accordingly.
Fleming considered himself to have PHD credentials concerning the female sexual pysche.
Dr. Fleming if you will.