London...again. Sick people killing good people on the streets of the UK.

forgotmyusername

I'm sick of sick people using one of the world's great religions to justify killing people in cold blood.

When will it end? How do we address the issues that gives these animals the excuse to be this inhuman?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

To be fair, religions have caused/sparked untold deaths for centuries now, whether they were during holy wars, cult attacks, times of the inquisition, in cases like that of Joan of Arc or even today's psychopathic massacres and radical terrorist attacks fueled by religion. Yes, those that kill innocent people are quite sickening to be sure, but religions and religious leaders in their many shapes and forms across history haven't been so wonderful either.

I must say though this discussion, like all religious discussions on here won't go very far until we are all at each other's throats.

4EverBonded

There have been horrors in religion, for sure. There have been great and kind people who helped others and sacrificed themselves for sure, too, religious and nonreligious people. We are a mixed, flawed, yet still at times truly beautiful set of creatures, we humans.

Murders and killings, tortures, kidnappings, sexual and all kinds of abuse - the despicable things people do to each other ... some days I really don't want to read the headlines; so much is sad and disgusting. I do check, though, in case of something major happening in the world. But at times it fills me with a heavy feeling of sadness and/or repulsion.

Perilagu_Khan

I see that the crystal clear, obvious message has not gotten through. Just as I suspected. When the survival instinct has vanished, the herd is ripe for the slaughter.

RogueAgent

Mindless madness! I just hope hysteria doesn't take a grip and cause riots....etc? Thoughts and prayers to the deceased and his family.

Ludovico

People murdering as an act of religious devotion is sadly (and tragically) nothing new or surprising.

Creasy47

Yep, it's just another topic that will be surrounded by religion. All types of religious groups, including atheists and agnostics, will enter and choke one another out with their beliefs until the thread is closed. Tragic, but there's no point in having another thread like this.

Ludovico

Creasy47 wrote:

Yep, it's just another topic that will be surrounded by religion. All types of religious groups, including atheists and agnostics, will enter and choke one another out with their beliefs until the thread is closed. Tragic, but there's no point in having another thread like this.

It will happen, most likely. That said, atheism is not a belief, it is a disbelief. In a specific point, a specific claim. I don't care if someone believes in God or not, I do care if he wants to impose his faith by violence.

myworldisenough

Not here to debate the motivation of the wicked evil cowards that carried out this sickening attack in the name of religion or whatever agenda they appear to have. I just want to say my thoughts are with the poor victim and his family and friends at this terrible time. RIP.

actonsteve

Creasy47 wrote:

Yep, it's just another topic that will be surrounded by religion. All types of religious groups, including atheists and agnostics, will enter and choke one another out with their beliefs until the thread is closed. Tragic, but there's no point in having another thread like this.

Atheism is the rejection of religion not a religion itself.

Creasy47

@actonsteve, poor wording in a quick rant on my part. I'm well aware of what atheism is.

Dragonpol

I don't know the details but this seems to be a very shocking incident invoking machetes and other knives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303

Whenever we start killing in the name of religion or other ideals, it all falls flat on its face in the justification stakes. Truly barbaric and brutal. Such a person must never be allowed out of jail for the remainder of his life.

Ludovico

What I find most chilling is that he spoke with a London accent.

TheWizardOfIce

The day the world truly went mad.

I'm not talking about the actual killing which frankly is fairly mundane - it was just a cowardly act by a pair of simple minded cretins who really shouldnt even be dignified with the label terrorist. 'Our lands'? - judging by your accent pal its a very long time since you've visited 'your lands' if ever. If you're such a hard man and a patriot why dont you go out there and fight the evil west rather than sitting on your arse in London watching Sky sports and playing Xbox and then sneaking up on people from behind with your equally gutless mate? There is not even the 'ideology' of the 9/11 attacks or Anders Breivik here; this was just cold blooded murder plain and simple.

What really shocked me though was how little people value their own lives. Picture the scene: 3 feet in front of you is a bloke covered in blood brandishing a machete and a few yards behind him is the body of someone he has just hacked to death. Do you?
a) run like buggery
b) stand there for ages filming him on your phone

Its beyond belief to me that peoples first thought these days is 'hey I might be able to get on Sky News' rather than 'this guy could start chopping me up any minute'.

How does one value a human life? Personally I would put mine at more than getting 1 million views on Youtube. But I'm obviously in a minority.

timmer

This is the new wave - domestic recruits. The enemy is indoctrinating local fanatics. We've also seen recent arrests/activity of locals in Boston, Toronto and Montreal. Seems it's become problematic to import operatives from the usual places.

The first reaction from passersby I hope, would be how can I take these guys down, but if you don't have skills, which would be most people, then yes why the hell aren't you running, or observing from a safe distance. The camera-phone is like a drug.

smokiegeezer

A Coward is always a Coward and this was a spineless and vicious attack. This is not about Religion or skin colour or even ideals....it was utter cowardice.

I've been told by people at work to watch this vile act on YOUTUBE but I will do no such thing because I can gain no entertainment value whatsoever from the murder of a human being.

My thoughts to the victim's family, I hope this man's life eclipsed his savage ending.

The awful truth when you lose a loved one is you never get over it, You only learn to live with it.

Dragonpol

smokiegeezer wrote:

A Coward is always a Coward and this was a spineless and vicious attack. This is not about Religion or skin colour or even ideals....it was utter cowardice.

I've been told by people at work to watch this vile act on YOUTUBE but I will do no such thing because I can gain no entertainment value whatsoever from the murder of a human being.

My thoughts to the victim's family, I hope this man's life eclipsed his savage ending.

The awful truth when you lose a loved one is you never get over it, You only learn to live with it.

Hey, I'm from Northern Ireland so lemme tell ya summin': cowardice is the terrorist's main stock in trade, yet they wish to be treated as you would a member of a national army when caught.

smokiegeezer

I have a mate Dragonpol who grew up in the 'troubles' and you would understand better than most this gross act of Cowardice.

I will never judge skin colour, nationality or religious beliefs when these terrible events occur.
The media should report it as Cowardice end of story.

Dragonpol

smokiegeezer wrote:

I have a mate Dragonpol who grew up in the 'troubles' and you would understand better than most this gross act of Cowardice.

I will never judge skin colour, nationality or religious beliefs when these terrible events occur.
The media should report it as Cowardice end of story.

Yes, indeed. I have no sympathy with justifications for any form of terrorist activity, nor should anyone in their right mind.

Dragonpol

There was a man by the name of Enoch Powell MP who made a speech erroneously dubbed the "Rivers of Blood" speech and he warned Beritain in 1968 that it was "busily engaged in stoking up its own funeral pyre". He repeated the words of a constituent: "In 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man". For black read the Islamist extremist - this has nothing to do with race for me, at least, as I am not a racist person. Of course they laughed at Powell and dward Heath, the Leader of the Opposition, removed him from the front bench of the Shadow Cabinet as a result. But Powell had plenty of support as his mailbags attested to - there were even calls for him to be made PM - he'd have been a much better leader than Heath. They said Powell was a crank, a crackpot, a racist - all the liberal slurs that could be thrown at a decent conservative man who was a real visionary and a politician of the first rank and of great intellect.

The thing is - he was RIGHT. Not Gordon Brown and his predecessors with their "bigoted woman" spiel. The lib-labs were wrong, the right was right - Britain is now a tinderbox of races, many of them biting the very hand that feeds them and yet it cannot remove them due to the lunacy of human rights legislation and jurisprudence.

This is Britain in 2013 - the idealists and loonies of the Left are welcome to it. As Quitin Hogg, later Lord Hailsham wrote, The Left Were Never Right.

The poor soldier's family have my thoughts and prayers. It must be awful to have their family member mutilated by the scum of the Earth.

JawsIsAlive

I was waiting till someone used this to fuel their racist, islamaphobic nonsense.

Dragonpol

JawsIsAlive wrote:

I was waiting till someone used this to fuel their racist, islamaphobic nonsense.

Predictable. Did you actually READ what I wrote at all?! I said I was NOT a racist. You're one of the lib-lab squad that all forums are littered with. We have to suffer such for our sins.

TheWizardOfIce

Dragonpol wrote:

JawsIsAlive wrote:

I was waiting till someone used this to fuel their racist, islamaphobic nonsense.

Predictable. Did you actually READ what I wrote at all?! I said I was NOT a racist. You're one of the lib-lab squad that all forums are littered with. We have to suffer such for our sins.

You have to expect this response Dragonpol. The moment you mention Enoch you are branded a racist just like he was because the left cant admit that he knew what he was talking about.

I predict that now old Enoch's name has been raised that we have about 15 minutes before this thread is closed. You are not allowed to have an intelligent debate on the matter and that is part of the problem with this country today.

forgotmyusername

Entitled to your opinion dude ^. But my mum and dad came to the UK with nothing...they worked triple shifts, we had acid thrown on our car, had dog pooh shoved in our letterbox because of the colour of our skin. We fed ourselves through hard work, they sent me and my sis through uni, we paid all our own fees and we've both worked and paid taxes for over 20 years. My dad paid taxes for 40 years.

As a family we've worked hard to integrate and be part of this countrys community.

I do think that the do gooders have made becoming a uk citizen a meh moment and not an honour. English has to be mandatory, and I hate translations for signs or forms. If you can't be bothered to learn the language then tough...you are excluded from what you needed.

But go back only 400 years and this country flourished on bringing new cultures and new people here....it's what the uk has been built on...don't ever forget that.

Go to the Glucester and Bristol docks and can u see how the white man had the whip in his hand for generation after generation. Those slave ships and markets should not be forgotten. And don't forget the East India company was nothing more than an excuse to rape, pillage and extort the people and resources of another country for the white mans greed.

This was an act of cowardice by two men who were looking for acceptance in society but found solace in the company of evil. I really do think they should be taken out of the gene pool full stop.

Dragonpol

forgotmyusername wrote:

Entitled to your opinion dude ^. But my mum and dad came to the UK with nothing...they worked triple shifts, we had acid thrown on our car, had dog pooh shoved in our letterbox because of the colour of our skin. We fed ourselves through hard work, they sent me and my sis through uni, we paid all our own fees and we've both worked and paid taxes for over 20 years. My dad paid taxes for 40 years.

As a family we've worked hard to integrate and be part of this countrys community.

I do think that the do gooders have made becoming a uk citizen a meh moment and not an honour. English has to be mandatory, and I hate translations for signs or forms. If you can't be bothered to learn the language then tough...you are excluded from what you needed.

But go back only 400 years and this country flourished on bringing new cultures and new people here....it's what the uk has been built on...don't ever forget that.

Go to the Glucester and Bristol docks and can u see how the white man had the whip in his hand for generation after generation. Those slave ships and markets should not be forgotten. And don't forget the East India company was nothing more than an excuse to rape, pillage and extort the people and resources of another country for the white mans greed.

This was an act of cowardice by two men who were looking for acceptance in society but found solace in the company of evil. I really do think they should be taken out of the gene pool full stop.

Of course I have absolutely no problem with people of colour being here - in fact I have a white cousin who married a black man and had two lovely children, now adults. I am not a racist in any way. We are all created by God for a purpose. I can see beyond this - it is Islamist radicals that want to do nothing less than destroy all of Western civilisation that I HAVE a problem with, not those who worked their way up from nothing. I actually think the Britain needed the influx of people of colour from the Commonwealth (it was a law passed by Clement Attlee, and as a democrat I respect that totally) as there were too many natives who didn't want to do menial jobs to replace all those killed in the last war. We can't just decide OUT WITH YOU ALL when we feel like it. With power comes responsibility. On the radical Islamists - they probably should never have been here, but sadly we only know who they are when they commit another atrocity like the piece of barbarity and butchery practised in broad daylight yesterday. It's not all black and white, you know. It's much more complicated than that.

Might I just be permitted to add that I think that Powell was wrong in the sense that it would not be the black man per se with the whiphand, but the radicalised Islamist - though, to be fair, there were very bad race riots in the 1980s of course as well as plenty of interracial problems in communities.

I'm from Northern Ireland, so I think I know a fair bit about what John Bull got up to, even as a unionist here.

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

JawsIsAlive wrote:

I was waiting till someone used this to fuel their racist, islamaphobic nonsense.

Predictable. Did you actually READ what I wrote at all?! I said I was NOT a racist. You're one of the lib-lab squad that all forums are littered with. We have to suffer such for our sins.

You have to expect this response Dragonpol. The moment you mention Enoch you are branded a racist just like he was because the left cant admit that he knew what he was talking about.

I predict that now old Enoch's name has been raised that we have about 15 minutes before this thread is closed. You are not allowed to have an intelligent debate on the matter and that is part of the problem with this country today.

Abso-bloody-exactly.

JawsIsAlive

I'm a pretty die hard socialist lefty, so we're clearly never going to agree on much. But I fail to see what your views immigration has to do with the topic at hand? I hate religion as much as anyone, and this tragedy clearly shows how terrible it's effects can be, but the majority of immigrants are genuinely hard working people looking to better themselves. Britain was not a crime-free utopia before immigrants arrived. Also WizardOfIce, I'm surprised an Alan Partridge fan like yourself has right wing leanings, considering that's what he's supposed to be poking fun at.

If it wasn't for the "left" the slave trade would still be in existence and homosexuals would be hung in the streets.

Dragonpol

JawsIsAlive wrote:

I'm a pretty die hard socialist lefty, so we're clearly never going to agree on much. But I fail to see what your views immigration has to do with the topic at hand? I hate religion as much as anyone, and this tragedy clearly shows how terrible it's effects can be, but the majority of immigrants are genuinely hard working people looking to better themselves. Britain was not a crime-free utopia before immigrants arrived. Also WizardOfIce, I'm surprised an Alan Partridge fan like yourself has right wing leanings, considering that's what he's supposed to be poking fun at.

If it wasn't for the "left" the slave trade would still be in existence and homosexuals would be hung in the streets.

Yes, I see you are indeed a leftie. Your choice. That's democracy. And yes, I do see a connection between unfettered modern-day immigration and radical Islam. They come here to maim and kill and not to integrate in any way, shape or form. I'm not referring to the many law-abiding and hard-working immigrants that we have here in the UK, of course. They contribute to the future well-being of the whole nation and have as much right to be here as you or I. It's the law since the late 1940s. Look it up on the statute book.

SaintMark

I think it is a sad day when these morons decided to slaughter a person out of rather warped motives. I think that their actions were wrong and that their religious opinions are not interesting as they were used as an excuse for a horrible act.
These people were hardly religious they were more in the frame of mind that their views were right and those of others wrong.

Enoch Powell was a racist and so were his opinions, not surprisingly we all get it right soonere or later he is no exception. We live in a cultural meltingpot and that is not going to change anytime soon, we have to come with better ways than starting a fight about whose religious opinions are dangerous and whose not. Religion seems to be as violent as it ever was, and it has always been an excuse to start a fight for more monetary reasons.

I am not sure these morons are terrorists but they sure did deliver a message, namely you are as save at home as the muslims are in AFghanistan or Iraq. They did a very good job and the average person goes paranoid in their suspicions.

smokiegeezer

Don't put any religious tag next to the Cowards.

Too afraid to admit what they really are they justify their spineless murder by claiming to be religious.

I am open to any faith as long as it respects my non-belief in Religion, No Religion can justify yesterdays events.

I thank the Mods for keeping open the thread, Let's remember although we all see the world with different eyes in this place we all love our Bond. Having something in common is how progress beg. Sadly we have members of our species reverting to animalistic traits of the past.
Killing for nothing, Killing for the sake of it.

smokiegeezer

That should read-

Having something common is how progress begins