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But for now, let me say Newman certainly showed promise in Skyfall with his writing for the Shanghai/Macau segment of the film. Perhaps he was inspired by the exoticism of the locales and the more traditional Bondian elements that appeared there, which would seem to bode well for the direction SPECTRE is heading. I just hope he can improve in two key areas: 1) more appropriate and more confident use of the James Bond theme, and 2) please no more of the "noodlely" flute writing (it worked okay in parts of Skyfall, but there was too much of it and it just doesn't spell "James Bond" to me). That's as critical as I'm willing to go in a Thomas Newman appreciation topic. ;)
You and I are in complete disagreement then. Let's leave it at that.
Arnold used it in creative ways too. 8-}
Well, let's disagree on that. I'm glad he's not back and I look forward to the SP score. That's my last comment on this.
:))
Rather off-topic, this discussion of David Arnold and the James Bond theme, but it needs to be said David Arnold worked the James Bond theme in many fun and creative ways.
True!
David Arnold's James Bond Theme from his album "Shaken & Stirred":
Sounds rather lively, and slightly cheesier than his later versions. This more pompous, but still very "classic" version is the one that "SPECTRE" needs :-).
David Arnold's James Bond Theme from "The World Is Not Enough":
A lot of electro and synth sounds in it, fits the 1990's very well.
David Arnold's James Bond Theme from "Casino Royale":
Back-to-basics, very streamlined, and he could have used more percussion.
David Arnold's James Bond Theme from "Quantum Of Solace":
Slightly faster paced than the one from CR, more triangles and percussion.
David Arnold's James Bond Theme from "Skyfall":
In think they used the exact same version as for CR's end titles.
i just think for whatever reason, people don't want to give Arnold his credit, because he was trying to be too much like Barry.... which is fine - that's people personal opinions on the matter... but i think he did really fine work - and i hope he comes back to the series again one day..
That is a good point! That theme seemed almost (almost..) as integral to the franchise as the Bond theme for some time. Its odd and a shame that it just disappeared like that.
I doubt Newman is the man to bring it back though. He seems far to proud in his own craftsmanship to just reuse another composer's idea like that. It seems he wants to do his own things only, and its been speculated that was the reason why he was so reluctant to use more of the theme tune in Skyfall.
I could be completely wrong though...
You are correct sir, and it's been way too long since we've heard that bit of inspired music created by the one and only John Barry. A travesty that it has not been used in 35 years. Yes, I would love to hear that again,
I'd also love to hear the Bond theme drizzled around the score, as long as it's incorporated inventively into the score and massaged with the title track melody in certain parts of the movie. Newman has the skills to do this. The question is, will he? He'd better IMO or else I'll have a time defending him to all the Arnold "lovers" here after SP comes out..
Here's my all-time favourite by David Arnold. It was excellent for the Hamburg airport arrival and Q's BMW briefing. The jazz elements just get me every time.
The difference between the TND bit above and the OHMSS Barry post above does reflect the difference in approach between Barry and Arnold to my ears though.
In your TND post, I heard essentially the Bond theme with some jazzy elements thrown in, and it sounded good, but it was basically 3 minutes of the Bond theme in a slight variation.
In my post above of the OHMSS bit, you hear about 50 seconds of the Bond theme, then a pause with a bit of OHMSS's score, then another 50 odd seconds of the Bond theme in variation (with new, for the time, Moog synthesizer if I'm not mistaken thrown in), followed by a very dynamic, inventive, but not over-noisy action score with amazing melody.
The variations were far more pronounced in the Barry score above. It almost seemed like a brand new tune rather than just an interpretation of something that we've been hearing since the 60's
That's what I would prefer to see in SP ( admittedly we had neither in SF).
Agreed. Barry was the alpha and omega of the franchise's score. I just think Arnold is the closest to Barry we had. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Newman has an ace up his sleeve and brings back the theme in an action sequence in some way. Do you reckon he has lots of guts? :D
It's quite an honour to be called back to score one of moviedom's most storied and renown franchises (on a musical level as well as all other levels).
He'll definitely want to put his stamp on it though, and I'm ok with that. To me, he did a Roger Moore to Barry's Sean Connery on SF. He knew he could not imitate the master, so he wisely decided to innovate and take a different interpretive approach. At least it wasn't as jarring as Serra's very different take on GE (bits of which I'll admit to liking). Nevertheless, the new approach was not to everyone's liking it appears, which was to be expected. We're generally a conservative lot, us Bond fans.
He just needs to put in more orchestra (like he did to some extent on "The Chimera") and weave in the Bond theme this time. I'm sure he will do it. There will be an ace. He'll want to be remembered for this score. SPECTRE will be a movie that all involved on will want to be remembered for.
i've heard two different stories behind why that special 007 song has not been used since Barry....
often when Arnold was asked about using it - he would say something along the lines of, it's a very special piece of music, and should only be used when Bond is doing what Bond does in top form, and that he didn't want to use that song flippantly..
the other explanation i've heard, is that there is some legal copyright or trademark that Barry has over that song, and the reason for it's none use has been because he simply had never given his consent..
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have the OHMSS main theme return.
Regarding Newman's use of Bond theme, I hope that he'll create his own arrangement and that he won't use just the vamp, but also the guitar riff (in Skyfall it was used only once, it was a subtle and brief piano rendition at the end of Grandborough Road), the bebop (pretty much absent in Skyfall, unless you count that cacophonic reference used when the Aston Martin is blown up and during the train chase in the PTS) and the ending part (Arnold used it brilliantly in tracks such as Whiteout, Pursuit at Port au Prince and Antonov).
In my opinion it's GREAT news that he is back. I really liked the score of Skyfall and I'm sure this score will be even better.
I don't believe great modern movie scores need to be hummable. For example this is a masterpiece but not very hummable:
Why? Shouldn't a Bond score be memorable and hummable. John Barry excelled at this. The track you used as an example is nice, but it's not Bondian at all. It's simple background music. Music in a Bond movie is a character. It goes on the journey and tells a story. It is the star. Skyfall's music was a background character, It didn't have the grand imaginative sound Barry and Arnold created. It was simple and left much to be desired. Bond music deserves to be top priority not a last minute idea.
Bond music should be Bold, emotional and loud. Not quiet, simple and loopy. Simple background music is generic and lame in a Bond movie. But something complex, unique and imaginative is what Bond music is all about. More Barry and less Zimmer.
I want to be wowed by tense music. (The Skyfleet plane reveal from CR, that music cue made my heart pump. It was Classic Bond music. It made me fear that Carlos could destroy that plane.) Repetitive looped beats doesn't wow me. It bores me. It's pause menu music for when you wanna take a break and grab some snacks. Where's the originality and glamour in that?
Bond music doesn't need to be John Williams grade, but it needs to be something above mediocre and plain. Arnold paying homage to John Barry was the best thing to happen to Bond music after he retired. Newman had some good tracks but the rest of the score was bare and lacking. And the fact he had to be forced to incorporate the Bond theme into the score disappoints me. He didn't respect the theme. Arnold did and that's why he's a better composer for Bond than Newman.
Let's try to stay optimistic (because he is the one doing it ...) that Newman will deliver a much better Bondian score this time (goodness knows he has surely been told that from several sources). He does have the talent, but it takes more than that alone.
If the song only momentarily appears in the film, then once again I shant be blaming T Newman. It would be completely unfair.