SPECTRE: Thomas Newman is Back! (appreciation topic)

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  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I am up for a new composer. At his best Arnold did a decent Barry immitation, but IMO that is not really good enough. I have long said that while I wouldn't object to Arnold coming back, I think EON should be aiming much higher. They need a true original talent who can continue the greatness of the Barry era, but bring something truly new to the Bond sound - reinvent it and put it at the cutting edge of popular film scoring once again.

    Newman for me offers even less than Arnold. I'm not sure he's ever written a memorable melody. Perhaps American Beauty? That seems a major issue for a Bond composer and leaves me with little expectation that his SP score will be any better than his work on SF, particularly if he continues to resist collaborating with the composer of the title track.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    The guy who did the music for the FRWL videogame (can't remember the name) should have a chance.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    00Dalton wrote: »
    Nothing Thomas Newman did was that remarkable. It's got nothing in the score that's even that different from David Arnold. At least he would've made a continuation of the melodys he started in CR and QOS. I hate that they snubbed Arnold for the 50th anniversary film and we arn't getting him back for SP.

    I hope upon hope he does Craig's 25th and final film.

    Thus rounding out the Craig era and bringing back the YKMN melody as I think it's the middle modern equivalent of 007 theme as a great alternative sound to the Monty Norman theme.

    SF lacked a melody that tied the film together and the rendition of Adele's song in the Casino scene felt 'for the sake of it' as he was pretty much made to include it and no interest in having it in the film.

    CR and QOS were superior scores and had progression. SF could've continued this as the Criag era is one narrative.

    The fact SF got an Oscar nomination is proof the Academy is a sham. The John Barry scores were much more deserved of an Oscar.

    In all honesty SF Score is so generic it could be used (with the exception of the Bond moments which BTW are rushed) in literally any prestigious event film and you wouldn't know it was written for Bond which is a very specific sort of film taut requires a well defined Bondian score.

    To each their own, but...

    1. The "Mother" theme is one that ties the film together.

    2. Newman didn't just get a Oscar nomination, he also won a Grammy for the SF score.

    3. There was no snub with Arnold. Two reasons: 1. Newman is Mendes's guy, period; 2. Arnold was too busy anyway doing the Olympics.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes, I don't think Mendes snubbed Arnold. I believe they met, but Mendes always works with Newman so he brought his man in. No hard feelings I don't think.

    With Purvis and Wade I think there may have been a bit more tension, as they probably felt they'd not received the credit they felt was due for SF and then Mendes and EON had to ask them to come back.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Actually, Arnold claimed that his availability (him doing the Olympics) wouldn't prevent him from doing the score for Skyfall.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Just add TND amounts of Bond theme in SPECTRE and I think Newman can redeem himself. ;)
  • TripAces wrote: »
    00Dalton wrote: »
    Nothing Thomas Newman did was that remarkable. It's got nothing in the score that's even that different from David Arnold. At least he would've made a continuation of the melodys he started in CR and QOS. I hate that they snubbed Arnold for the 50th anniversary film and we arn't getting him back for SP.

    I hope upon hope he does Craig's 25th and final film.

    Thus rounding out the Craig era and bringing back the YKMN melody as I think it's the middle modern equivalent of 007 theme as a great alternative sound to the Monty Norman theme.

    SF lacked a melody that tied the film together and the rendition of Adele's song in the Casino scene felt 'for the sake of it' as he was pretty much made to include it and no interest in having it in the film.

    CR and QOS were superior scores and had progression. SF could've continued this as the Criag era is one narrative.

    The fact SF got an Oscar nomination is proof the Academy is a sham. The John Barry scores were much more deserved of an Oscar.

    In all honesty SF Score is so generic it could be used (with the exception of the Bond moments which BTW are rushed) in literally any prestigious event film and you wouldn't know it was written for Bond which is a very specific sort of film taut requires a well defined Bondian score.

    To each their own, but...

    1. The "Mother" theme is one that ties the film together.

    2. Newman didn't just get a Oscar nomination, he also won a Grammy for the SF score.

    3. There was no snub with Arnold. Two reasons: 1. Newman is Mendes's guy, period; 2. Arnold was too busy anyway doing the Olympics.

    By snubbed I meant he didn't get to do it. Not he was meant to and didn't.

    Just because a director works with a composer all the time doesn't mean that it was the right choice for Bond.

    I sure Arnold would've accomadated anything Mendes wanted.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I'm really curious what Thomas Newman comes up with for "SPECTRE".
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Newman is back - Fine. Arnold would have been better.
  • Posts: 11,119
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Newman is back - Fine. Arnold would have been better.

    Bold statement at this moment ;-)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Newman is back - Fine. Arnold would have been better.

    Bold statement at this moment ;-)

    More of an opinion really. I feel the same way. It's a bit tedious to end every post with "in my opinion."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I am still waiting, and really tired of waiting but still very eager nonetheless - to hear anything about the theme song. Anybody have any clue? Have I missed some news somewhere?
  • Posts: 11,425
    Not very active this forum, is it?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Adele was not confirmed until only a couple of months before the film's release, thus I bet we're going to wait before we know SPECTRE's performer.
  • Posts: 725
    talos7 wrote: »

    Not a good thing. I have no appreciation for Newman's music as I thought his score was very bland in SF. Bond films should have a strong score and I just don't think they got it from Newman. Mendes is about as good a judge of composers as he is of screen writers (Logan). As for the awards, SF's huge success (and Adele's big hit theme) carried Newman to his Grammy win and Oscar nom (along with his family connections as old Oscar voters just love their own).

    Now he will be writing music for two spy films with the exact same time line opening days within each other. If he can't write great music for one spy film, I just wonder how he will write great music for 2 at the same time.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Nothing wrong with TN's score imo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    smitty wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »

    Not a good thing. I have no appreciation for Newman's music as I thought his score was very bland in SF. Bond films should have a strong score and I just don't think they got it from Newman. Mendes is about as good a judge of composers as he is of screen writers (Logan). As for the awards, SF's huge success (and Adele's big hit theme) carried Newman to his Grammy win and Oscar nom (along with his family connections as old Oscar voters just love their own).

    Now he will be writing music for two spy films with the exact same time line opening days within each other. If he can't write great music for one spy film, I just wonder how he will write great music for 2 at the same time.

    This part does concern me. I hope he knows where his priority should be (SP of course!).
  • Posts: 2,158
    I'm doubt it will have any impact. I think Bridge of Spies is already in the can and is being edited as we speak so Newman will be scoring it now - summer before moving onto Spectre July/August time.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    talos7 wrote: »
    smitty wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »

    Not a good thing. I have no appreciation for Newman's music as I thought his score was very bland in SF. Bond films should have a strong score and I just don't think they got it from Newman. Mendes is about as good a judge of composers as he is of screen writers (Logan). As for the awards, SF's huge success (and Adele's big hit theme) carried Newman to his Grammy win and Oscar nom (along with his family connections as old Oscar voters just love their own).

    Now he will be writing music for two spy films with the exact same time line opening days within each other. If he can't write great music for one spy film, I just wonder how he will write great music for 2 at the same time.

    I actually think the other way around. Now Thomas Newman has the opportunity to create two "spy-sounds" that are vastly different from each other. "Bridge Of Spies" now could prove to be more spy-drama, whereas "SPECTRE" will be more spy-action. It could focus the creativeness of Thomas Newman, channeling more distinct Bond sounds, as compared to "Bridge Of Spies".

    I strongly disagree with your notion that he can't write spy music. Again, that's a matter of opinion. What I am worried about is the timeframe Thomas Newman now has. It'll be very very busy for Mr Newman now. Given the fact that John Williams bowed out pretty late, I assume the music for "Bridge Of Spies" could suffer from that....

    And please, don't forget "APPRECIATION TOPIC" ;-).
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yeah, I think it's fair to say a film suffers when John Williams walks out of one door and Thomas Newman comes in through another. It's called trading down.

    Crazy to think that Cubby turned down Spielberg for Bond. We could have had a J Williams Bond score.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Fact is: Thomas Newman it is for SP. And I was wondering something. Does your music taste never change when you listen to piece of music more frequently? In other words: If on first listen you tend to dislike Thomas Newman's work, can it be possible that after repeated listening you actually start to.....like it more? Or are we all that simple-minded....that we must like music on a first listen? I actually find it a bit short-sighted. The lovely quality of Newman's score for SF IMO was, that on repeated listening I started to like his score more. That's a quality on itself as well. And perhaps now we are more accustomed to Newman, perhaps we all start to like his score for SP a bit sooner.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I'll keep it brief because this is an appreciation topic...

    It wasn't that the score is bad, it's just a bit generic, even 3 years on with repeated listenings.

    When I listen to "Dawn Raid on Fort Knox", "Cable Car and Snake Fight", "Kung Fu Fight", "He's Dangerous", it just screams James Bond, much like the Union jack parachute jump, or the tank chase, or Moonraker free fall.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I was excited for Newman when he was announced for Skyfall. I though QoS's score was lacking quite a bit including a very minimal use of the Bond theme. I liked some tracks. Night at the Operabeing the standout track for me, so I was ready for someone new to score a Bond movie. I wasn't familiar with Newman's work outside of Wall-E which I thought was a great score.

    Then comes Skyfall. On first hearing the score, I liked most of it. But it's replay value is not very good. The more I listen to it, the more I like it less. It's just not very memorable and doesn't have that classic Bond music punch to it. It's just an oddity that is lacking Bond theme and sweeping memorable melodies. I know we'll never get another John Barry score but Bond music shouldn't lesser than it's been for decades. Perhaps Barry set the bar too high, or perhaps themeless, more simplistic musical compositions are the new IT thing. Which is a shame. Because Bond music was a character in the films themselves. I just hope Newman tries a lot harder for SPECTRE because a Skyfall grade soundtrack won't cut it this time.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Murdock wrote: »
    I was excited for Newman when he was announced for Skyfall. I though QoS's score was lacking quite a bit including a very minimal use of the Bond theme. I liked some tracks. Night at the Operabeing the standout track for me, so I was ready for someone new to score a Bond movie. I wasn't familiar with Newman's work outside of Wall-E which I thought was a great score.

    Then comes Skyfall. On first hearing the score, I liked most of it. But it's replay value is not very good. The more I listen to it, the more I like it less. It's just not very memorable and doesn't have that classic Bond music punch to it. It's just an oddity that is lacking Bond theme and sweeping memorable melodies. I know we'll never get another John Barry score but Bond music shouldn't lesser than it's been for decades. Perhaps Barry set the bar too high, or perhaps themeless, more simplistic musical compositions are the new IT thing. Which is a shame. Because Bond music was a character in the films themselves. I just hope Newman tries a lot harder for SPECTRE because a Skyfall grade soundtrack won't cut it this time.

    Nice to read different opinions :-). Perhaps in the future they can hire the composer from "Kingsman"?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @Murdock, I think it's in the musical department where Bond is still falling behind (compared to the Barry era). They have improved on several fronts in the past decade but still lag in this important sector, especially in comparison to the competition, which has gotten much better.

    Yes indeed, Barry did set the bar way too high....... Like Ken Adam, Maurice Binder, and even Terence Young, he created something that likely can never be equaled.

    I personally cannot listen to any non-Barry score without watching the accompanying film except for Martin's LALD. Having said that, I did like Arnold's QoS score the best out of the bunch he did, because it was a little more melodic than he had done before, and because of the excellent Night at the Opera (which is extremely evocative of Barry with its building cues).

    I did not mind SF's score, while listened to in conjuction with the film. As mentioned, since Barry I've not been able to listen to any score on its own, so the SF score was just par for the course.

    I'm sure Newman has it in him to deliver something special for SP. The movie looks to be much 'louder' and 'busier' than SF from the trailers, so the score will have to be 'amped up' as well. I don't think we'll have accusations of elevator music this time around.

    I'm disappointed that EON has still not found a suitable successor to Barry after all these years (Newman is just a stand-in due to Mendes).........someone who can create a new sound which still evokes Barry. I think Giacchino could do it certainly.

    Likely after DC's run is over, there will be a shakeup and we'll see a new series composer.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @Gustav_Graves, Yes! I have been listening to the Kingsman soundtrack lately. I would love for them to score a Bond movie.

    @bondjames, Yes I'd also love Giacchino to score many Bond films.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    Those with a TN problem are in the minority. It's all a matter of taste, but the industry itself has already settled this debate: Newman is one of the very best film composers around. If he sucked, he wouldn't be working continuously. His scores for American Beauty and The Shawshank Redemption are iconic, and he has 12 Oscar noms (including SF) and six Grammys (including SF). Composers who suck aren't going to be that accomplished.
  • Posts: 725
    Murdock wrote: »
    I was excited for Newman when he was announced for Skyfall. I though QoS's score was lacking quite a bit including a very minimal use of the Bond theme. I liked some tracks. Night at the Operabeing the standout track for me, so I was ready for someone new to score a Bond movie. I wasn't familiar with Newman's work outside of Wall-E which I thought was a great score.

    Then comes Skyfall. On first hearing the score, I liked most of it. But it's replay value is not very good. The more I listen to it, the more I like it less. It's just not very memorable and doesn't have that classic Bond music punch to it. It's just an oddity that is lacking Bond theme and sweeping memorable melodies. I know we'll never get another John Barry score but Bond music shouldn't lesser than it's been for decades. Perhaps Barry set the bar too high, or perhaps themeless, more simplistic musical compositions are the new IT thing. Which is a shame. Because Bond music was a character in the films themselves. I just hope Newman tries a lot harder for SPECTRE because a Skyfall grade soundtrack won't cut it this time.


    I think the last 2 sentences in @Murdock's post nail the problems I have with TN's Bond score. Williams has written scores for many Spielberg films like Jurasic and Star Wars that were indeed "characters" in those films. Some truly memorable stuff that intensely captured the essence of those films and contributed to their success. I don't think TN's score contributed to SF's success, if anything, for me it weakened the film. TN writes music for dramas where the music is not supposed to intrude. For a film like SP, the score needs to help carry the action. I had some issues with Kingsman, but the music was exactly the kind of strong score that helped carry that film.

  • Posts: 4,619
    I have to disagree with most people here and agree with the Music Branch of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. I think the score of Skyfall was excellent.
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