It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
I don't think Bond fans care about awards. The Coen Brothers are critically lauded Oscar winners, but I wouldn't want them making a Bond movie, the same way I wouldn't want Kanye West doing the theme tune, despite having nearly 30 Grammys. I don't think people would deny Newman's talent, but for a man with that many Oscar noms bestowed on him, it makes SF seem even more lacklustre imo. There are some really decent tracks on there, but it lacks cohesion for me, the requisite bombast, the luscious subtlety and the indelible sound that should form a Bond soundtrack. He really needs to up his game on SP. People can pull out all the awards they want, but they count for nothing. I don't listen to YOLT and think, 'poor soundtrack, can see why it never won any awards', it's a thing of beauty and it shits on SF from quite a height.
I think it's the cohesion of Thomas Newman's score that makes it a top quality score. Perhaps it's not so much melodical cohesion, but it certainly is rhythmic and thematic cohesion. Thomas Newman was adamant of bringing suspense to his Skyfall-score, by composing the music around something very basic: Heartbeats. And I think he pulled it off.
The thing that also makes the Newman score work for me is actually the fact that it backs off from including typical Bond-bombast. He created an entirely new sound for the Bond films, similar to how Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti, Michael Kamen and Eric Serra created their own sound for the franchise. I am delighted that Newman backed off from doing completely John Barry-copy-pasting at some moments. I just don't want a typical Bond score.....or a score that sounds Bond-ian on first listen. I'm not implying you are referring to that, but in a way you're talking about the typical "requisite bombast" and "luscious subtlety" that went with Barry's scores, no?
Brings me to another thing I disagree with you. I actually think Newman has been way way more subtle in his scoring as opposed to, let's say, David Arnold. Romantic moments and passionate moments in SF really got an unexpected Barry-esque feel if you ask me. The shower scene between Severine and Bond really got enhanced by Newman's lush track "Severine", whereas the slightly more contrived shower scene between Bond and Vesper in CR did not entirely work for me, mainly because of the slightly too simple and rather bland piano-piece "Vesper".
So in all honesty, I really hope Newman sticks to what he did with "Skyfall". If you ask me he should not up his game more. I never find it attractive from a creative point of view if you talk like that to such a talented composer. Music is foremost about taste, and you can't make everyone happy. So my message to Newman would simply be: Just do what you think is best.
Obviously, awards shouldn't be the reason to like or not like a score. I fully agree with that. In the end it's all about personal taste. And for me the Oscar nomination didn't enhance Newman's score or didn't make Newman's score better. But it did gave me a slight sense of proudness, which is something completely different off course :-).
I tend to agree with you @Gustav_Graves.
I liked that Newman did not try to copy Barry but brought his own creative take to it. I felt I was listening to the work of a man with a vision, rather than a hack, but it was somewhat mellow no doubt. Subtle.
I think Severine's theme is one of the greatest things I've heard post-Barry (but very Barry'esque lush), and I'm only disappointed it was not played more often because she was killed off too soon imho.
I too don't judge Newman by his awards, but I enjoyed the SF music, while watching the film. I'm not sure I would enjoy it on its own without the accompanying visuals, but that is a secondary requirement for me.
I'm referring to the Bond 'sound' as created by Barry. I think it was @Murdock, perhaps in this thread, who referred to the Bond scores as being a character themselves, which is exactly correct. Scores in Bond don't service the films in the way a traditional movie score might. There's no copying Barry involved, it's about working within the framework he created. You talk of Hamlisch, Conti, etc... they developed their own sounds, but they still worked within the framework of the Bond sound. The cues are consistent and memorable. Even GE, which is hated by some fans, has a consistency to the sound and feel. My three favourite tracks from SF are probably 'New Digs', 'Tennyson' and 'She's Mine', but they could just as well be from three different movies.
And as much as I'd love Newman to be involved with the theme, you don't have to be to put your own thematic stamp on the score.
There was nothing like this in SF for me.
On a side note, what I'd love in SP is a Blofeld/Oberhauser cue. Something truly memorable.
One of the greatest non-Barry compositions imho. I still get goose bumps listening to it. Truly wonderful stuff.
I think we will indeed get an Blofeld/Oberhauser cue in SP, as well as a Madeline Swann one.
I know it requires some faith, but as I've said before on this forum, there's nothing to worry about. The SP score is going to impress and will have essential Bondian cues. I'm 100% sure of it.
But come on, did Marvin Hamlisch really worked within the 'frame that John Barry created"? The track you're actually mentioning, "Ride To Atlantis" has IMO not much to do with John Barry's frame. For me it sounds like an exotic track to some kind of exploration cue to a possible reboot of "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea". Marvin Hamlisch really used a different kind of frame if you ask me: The late 1970's disco craze. He said it himself, that he was more inspired by The Bee Gees than by John Barry.
So is that wrong? Off course not. I liked his rendition completely. But so did I like Newman's rendition....Newman's interpretation of what he thinks is Bond-worthy.
Having said that, I do think that Newman actually worked way more within the frame that the late Barry created. Just listen to this:
Love that track, but yes, I personally agree on this. It is not Barry'esque to me, except for its grandeur and scale. However, it is a tremendous piece of work.
I found there to be more thematic consistency in the SF score than in Arnold's work to be honest. In fact, that's what I liked about the SF score. However, I'll agree it was too subtle in many places and needed just a little more oomph......
This sounded Bondian to me
I'm not worried, like I said earlier Newman is clearly capable, I hope he just embraces the whole thing a little more with SP. With SF I got the impression he wasn't too enamoured with the legacy that comes with it.
I didn't say it sounded like Barry, I was talking about the framework he created. Where cues are consistently weaved through the film. It adds a sense of cohesion to things. The structure of the score is Barry-esque. 'Severine' is a nice cue, but appears once. Where's the 'Silva' cue, that creeps into the score when he's around?
Well it better bl***y be.
A bondfilm that does not have the title song woven into the score just reeks of bad management and poor collaboration.
There is NO excuse for the song not to be a part of the fabric of the instrumental score. NONE.
TND, with it's criminally replaced KD Lang song, was a massive c***-up on the producers side from a musical point of view, one that is not to be repeated.
(As you can see I feel quite strongly about this...) :-w
Fair point. I felt with SF that we had a talented composer who may have been paying lip service to the legacy.
I personally preferred that to the alternative we had endured for some time, which imho was a fan boy who was, for the most part, out of his league.
If Newman gives more deference the legacy that he has in his hands, we're in for a treat.
If SF had sounded like this throughout I would've been very happy. This tracks sticks out to me as being head and shoulders above the rest of the score. It struck me the first time I saw it and I still feel the same about it.
It is one of several tracks on SF that is beautifully done. My fave is "Brave New World," which comes crashing upon us with the stunning visuals of Shanghai.
We Bond fans sometimes sound like a bunch of spoiled brats no ;-)?
The point has to do with Newman beyond just the SF OST, as there was some snarking about him, in general.
Post of the day!
That being said, you have to remember he had a limited orchestra for Skyfall.
an homage to Capsule in Space...
With that said, I hope Newman knocks it out of the park.
The music (aside from the TS) doesn't make the Bond films successful. If this were the case, the franchise would be comatose. There hasn't been a "memorable" score come out of the series in decades.
How about Edward Shearmur for a Bond composer?
Certainly not in the league of the non-Barry scores during the Barry era (even Conti with his disco influence created a more iconic Bond score than anything we have endured post-Barry, and Hamlisch & in particular Martin were definitely worthy of the job). That Hamlisch clip from above itself is on par with Barry - it is that iconic. His score during the Egyptian section of TSWLM is just magnificent.
It's certainly true that the score does not make a Bond film successful, but it definitely influences how the film is remembered and appreciated with time.......at least for me.
I recently rewatched TMWTGG and realized just how much I love Barrys' score for that film. For me, it really creates the right atmosphere and immerses me in the experience, thereby enabling more enjoyable repeat viewings, despite the film being average......the same applies to DAF
Yep. Newman is ok, would have preffered Arnold (a Bond fan, not just Mendes friend)!
I'm not questioning his fanboy status. He certainly is that. Just his abilities....which for me have been below par except for his last two.