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So now my question. Who actually wants to see Thomas Newman return as composer for Bond 24?
I want him to return. SF has one of the best scores of all the Bonds.
I honestly don't care if Newman returns or not. Yes, he did a good enough job to get the green tick, but why should good enough be enough? If he does return, I'd like to think he can show that he's learned a few things from/since his experience on SF. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is about his score that lacks, but there's a definite dip in quality in comparison to what we've heard in previous films. At the end of the day, I just want something memorable as a whole- something with it's own identity, as well as to hear some clever and varying use of leitmotif between the title song/Bond theme here and there where it's most appropriate. If Newman can deliver that, then kudos to him.
This is well stated; I thought the score was adequate to good but nothing special. I want special
And Allthough Arnold tried to tick that feeling in TWINE and especially his first film TND, I think in DAD, CR and QOS he was simply disappointing for me. In those films his music sounds and feels too much as filler music without having an independent feel.
You can say that from Newman too. But for me to a lesser extent. I think he brought more multi-layered music with great electronic percussion and a more "richer" feeling orchestra. I loved his more "romantic" approach, with more strings.
For me, David Arnold had some nice tracks in QOS, like "Night At The Opera" and "Mismo International" in CR. But overall Arnold's work disappoints me. Perhaps he should actually do more his best as score composer and "try" to do more films? Right now Arnold's CV looks rather poor compared to, let's say, Thomas Newman.
Then we have a different opinion on this matter ;-). I always say: Let's agree to disagree @Haserot :-).
Just to quickly react on the examples from Arnold you mentioned. I think those tracks pale, melody-wise, when compared with 'Backseat Driver' (TND), 'Snow Business' (tiny romantic cue in TWINE), but also with the action que 'Bloody Shot' (Thomas Newman, SF).
One should also ask himself: Did Arnold really outperform himself in every new Bond film? In my opinion Arnold never truly catched that crispy memorability of his melodies back in TND and to a lesser extent in TWINE.
Having said that, I can't wait to see Thomas Newman to return.
http://i.imgur.com/fhWeCxy.jpg
This is actually worthy of a news item on the MI6-HQ frontpage....
And thanks @marketto007 too! Have the MI6-editors already mentioned this on the Bond 24-newsroll?
I have never slated Arnold on here. I've always seen him as a moderately decent composer - not exactly inspiring but a lot better than Serra, for example.
For me Newman is a step backward, or at best a sideways move. I can see how if you dislike Arnold, the blandness of Newman would be preferable. But I think for the vast majority of people Newman's SF score was just very forgetable. In some films, that might not be a problem, but in the context of Bond, I think that's a major failing. If you add in his refusal to work with Adele and Epworth and properly incoprorate the title track into the score (even though he had plenty of time to do so), and we seem to have a composer who is simply temperamentally unsuited to working on Bond. Bond is a collaborative effort - something that Newman seems quite unaware of or uniterested in.
Also he seems to be ashamed of the Bond theme as well and didn't even try to make his own version.
From what I have gathered, people on this forum are exceptionally quick to judge. Calm down and give Newman another chance.
He had a chance and he flatly refused to work with Adele and Epworth. The only reason I've read for this is that he felt he was to busy on the rest of the score to incorporate the main title track them into his music. This is clearly BS/the lamest excuse ever made.
His SF score could and should very easily been a lot better, but his egotism got in the way. Pathetic. Not behaviour that makes me believe he deserves a second chance.
Looking through the list of films he's scored, I have to say that American Beauty is the only one that I have any positive memories of, in the sense that it made the slightest impression on me. As I say, perhpas this is a good thing in some contexts (a score that takes a backseat and lets the images, voices and acting dominate), but it seems to me Bond requires a composer with a stronger personality.
I disagree here....again. I had the chance to actually meet Thomas Newman. And he's a very kind, humble man. Even a bit shy-ish. Newman doesn't deserve such disrespectful ranting. All Bond composers bring something unique to the franchise. So does Newman.
I think Newman's score highlighted the complexity of "Skyfall" very well. James Bond has changed since Craig became Bond. The franchise is not just an entertaining popcorn blockbuster franchise anymore (like it was during the Brosnan-era), but also a movie franchise that, directly and indirectly, has socio-critical messages. CR, SF and to a lesser extent QOS all did address some geopolitical elements and had nicely interwoven themes (politically and socially).
With such a new approach, I actually prefer Thomas Newman's classier approach of scoring. His scores are indeed smoother and for the more ordinary fans of straight-in-your-face action flicks rather boring. But....not for me.
Please, let's avoid parodying each other as 'ordinary fans of straight-in-your-face action flicks' or whatever. Trust me, I am not a regular action flick fan, so don't assume that's where I'm coming from. I have never primarily seen Bond movies as action flicks anyway. I do however feel that a Bond score requires a certain amount of distinctiveness and character - something that I feel Newman totally failed to bring to SF. 'Smoother' scores no doubt have their place, but if in the case of SF, smooth = snooze, as far as I'm concerned. If this is all the fans hope for/expect from a Bond movie, frankly it's no wonder SF did so well - people are very easily pleased it seems to me.
Well, I didn't hear "M" citing a complete poem in GE. Nor did I hear "M" explaining the importance of secret intelligence services as opposed to Richard Snowden's, Julian Assange's WikiLeaks scandal.
For me, the Brosnan films aren't as "complex" and multi-layered as the Craig-films. Starting with CR Babs Broccoli and Michael Wilson truly put their own stamp on the movies, fully moving out of the shadows of their father producer "Cubby", who was way more conservative and who actually wanted to stick more to certain Bond elements. A "Skyfall" or a "Casino Royale" would not have been approved by "Cubby". Even Timothy Dalton recently spoke about that....
Fans seem to want one in the same league as John Barry. Frankly they unlikely to get it as Barry was unique in every way. The "James Bond sound" people talk about seems to be more like the "John Barry" sound, which happened to work so well with Bond.
I thought the SF track was fine. Not great but it suited the film it was attached to and had some effective tracks (when Bond first meets Severine and M's Tennyson speech).
My only reason for ever discussing replacing Arnold was not that I thought he was really bad, but because I thought Bond could do better. I feel the same way about Newman, although more so.
Yes, Barry was a one off, but there are other hugely talented people out there (some perhaps not yet discovered) who would relish an opportunity to make their names scoring a Bond movie. Newman gives every indication of seeing it as just another job. At least for Arnold it was clearly a privilege and great honour to score Bond. Whether he lived up to the legacy is another matter - he respected and understood the importance of the legacy to the fans, since he's also one himself.
I want more than 'effective'. George Martin, Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti and Michael Kamen all did one off scores and (IMO) offered something more than purely 'effective'. Some of their scores may seem a little dated, but they had character and personality and really added something to the films. I guess you could say the same of Serra, except that his score was memorable for all the wrong reasons.
Any way, this is supposed to be an appreciation thread, so I'll shut up.
Indeed and at least his scores where somehow memorable. Something SF didn't achieve in the least. Instead it was boring,boring,boring!
Well,maybe it is because the Bonds of yesteryear didn't feel the need to PRETEND they were intellectual. Probably that's the main reason why they didn't feel as pseudo as ...You know.