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And as for grandeur, the scene where Bond swooshes up to the Atlantis on the wet-bike is one of the grandest. Really one of my favorite visual scenes in all of Bond.
Indeed, TSWLM is certainly an epic Bondian adventure. All it really needed was a bit more fidelity to the works of Ian Fleming and it would surely have had it all as a James Bond film experience.
As Partridge said to Tony Le Mesmer 'Thats just more vague. be more specific.'
Call me thick if you like but are we saying that 'grand' = some nicely shot scenery (preferably it seems in a desert environment) in a couple of scenes or a combination of a nicely shot scene backed by some nice music with a little bit of drama and intrigue thrown in?
By those criteria I give you exhibit A - SF.
The moment the bikes ride out onto the grand bazaar the music goes up a notch and there's a lovely shot of the mosques, Bonds arrival at the casino with an orchestral rendition of Adeles theme song is lush and later the scene on the Chimera is beautifully shot (CGI island aside) and backed with Newmans most evocative and dare I say Bondish sounding track. Also Bond and Severine are on their way into the unknown so we also have intrigue.
Then theres the phenomenal Tennyson scene.
Surely all this is 'grandeur' by the criteria you mention above?
My personal disqualifier for SF is its general darkness. No, it is certainly nowhere near as dark as QoS or even CR, but it's certainly dark in the 21st-century vein. To me, a true old school epic is generally open and bright, while still maintaining an air of seriousness if not dourness. TLD has that; SF, IMO, does not.
Also, SF does not possess the requisite romance for a truly grand film. Nothing serious has the chance to develop between Bond and Severine, while the relationship between Bond and Kara is arguably the most consistently romantic ever put to film in a Bond picture.
It seems to me from all this that this idea of 'grand' actually means 'the film that feels closest to Lawrence of Arabia'.
Scope, majesty, and a great score is what I'm getting from it.
Check the Wikipedia entry for "epic film" to see what I'm getting at.
I think what prevents SF to be grand is its small scale motivations: a revenge story that triggers something certainly large scale, but overall secondary and instrumental.
I would contend that blowing up MI6 and a terrorist attack on the tube are larger scale and more of a threat to the country than Koskov and Whittaker's pretty mundane drug dealing.
What are Koskov's 'large scale motivations'? Ultimately just money - how much duller a motivation can you get?
That also is a good point, but to be fair, TLD also involves large scale arms trading which could affect the outcome of the clash between the Soviets and the mujahedin. Maybe not a plot of immense global import, but hardly piceyune either.
And I agree with you. I don't consider TLD "grand", it remains small scale IMO, more so than SF. That said, money can be a very large scale trigger though, it depends what you are ready to do to obtain it and what is at stake. Creating havoc in Western economy or killing a lot of people in a nuclear holocaust, well, that makes the motivation large scale. Yes, in SF Silva creates lots of havoc, but in the end it is secondary to his ultimate goal.
TND was the last, lush & epic Bond IMO.
And I only want an occasional epic Bond anyway, my favourites tend to be the non-epic ones.
Same here. I'd love to see another TB-like Bond movie soon, but only because we did not have a TB-like Bond movie since... well, TB. In general, I much prefer small-scale ones, like DN and FRWL.
Those are the four that jump out. All include sweeping natural vistas, rousing music, romance and intrigue.
Sweeping natural vistas is really the clincher though. All Bond films have the other elements to varying degrees.
I must say 'Thunderball'. In my opinion it had everything.....and was a bit more serious than the more cheesy 'Goldfinger'. The casino's, the watersports, the beaches, villain with eyepad, larger-than-life score.....it had everything if you ask me.
Some other examples: 'Moonraker', 'The Lving Daylights' and 'Skyfall' (its cinematography is impeccable) too.
[-X
YOLT has lots of well shot Japanese scenery, but aside from the sweeping mountain vista we don't get much else on the grand scale.
I conjure you are being too strict!
Don't make me post a Youtube vid of The Wall...
However I am isolating the above 4 as my purest epic-grand Bond films, in the Lawrence of Arabia tradition, if you will.
You asked for this:
Love the school-kid riot at the end. The burning building reminds somewhat of the SF finale.
The plot is certainly grand, both in its scope and its global importance. Then there's Barry's soaring score, which I think is overrated, but is certainly epic. There's also the paramilitary clash in the volcano lair.
No, what grabs me about YOLT is the awesome Bond vs Spectre vibe. It's the ultimate Bond vs Blofeld and Spectre. Nothing tops the Spectre volcano for sheer glorious scale.
It's the ultimate 007 spyfy fantasy adventure. The rest is bonus, ie the authentic Fleming touches and the Japanese scenery and culture immersion.
Revised strict list:
TB, YOLT,Spy,MR and TLD.
Waters, Gilmour and their children's choir can pipe down. :)
Yes, but in TND you have Bond single-handledly machine gunning the crew of a submarine in a narrow environment. It has no real large scale battle. That prevents it from grand-ness I think.
Only two movies were really about world domination, maybe three if you count YOLT.