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The films and music of JOHN CARPENTER thread
Some of you may have already come across my Alien thread, and I thought I would make a thread for my second favourite Sci-Fi horror film of all time, The Thing. since it has quite a cult following and has an intriguing discussion range, I thought it would be quite a good topic. You can talk about the prequel and about the original 1951 film if you want. Feel free to write whatever you want. (within reason)
Mod edit: I am recycling this thread for everything Carpenter.
DD.
Mod edit: I am recycling this thread for everything Carpenter.
DD.
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The Thing 1982
You know it's strange the amount of films that at the time are not appreciated and receive not only poor box office reception but also negative critical reaction but then go on to become cult classics with a huge appreciation, the amount of times I now see John Carpenter's version of The Thing getting 5 star reviews and shouts of masterpiece but back in 1982 it was a very different story. Carpenter's film unfortunately arrived in the same year as another alien based film, though that film was an entirely different tone, friendly and wanting to return home. I never actually understood the love for Spielberg's E.T for me his best work was behind him (sorry but this is my opinion and I'll expand if anyone wants the discussion).
The optimistic view point of the Beard's box office smash had the general public not ready for Carpenter's dark apocalyptic science fiction horror and consequently it took the VHS (remember them) release of this film for it to find it's audience and find it's audience it did. Some could argue that this is a remake of the Howard Hawks produced The Thing From Another World, both films are based on John W. Campbell Jr's novel Who Goes There. Whereas the Hawks film goes for the man in the suit routine typical of that genre of film making in the 50's, Carpenter with a treatment from Burt Lancaster's son Bill opts for the enemy within angle and produces a far more disturbing and darker take on Campbell's story.
The plot is a given and don't see the point going into it here just that once the U.S scientists take in the husky dog after rescuing it from the supposed crazed Norwegian scientists things go from bad to worse when the scientists realise neither of them can be trusted and might just not be what they seem.
I guess it's down to personal opinion but some might say that Halloween is Carpenter's finest moment, it undoubtedly informed the slasher genre to the degree of no other and is one of the most influential horror films of all time, a simple idea utilised brilliantly but for me it is 1982 film Carpenter's follow up to Escape From New York that is the man's finest achievement. Casting is key here and Kurt Russell had already been Carpenter's Elvis in an acclaimed TV film directed by JC as well as playing the stone cold cool Snake Pliskin in Escape. The Thing is essentially an ensemble but Russell's R.P McCready is the films most dominant character who emerges as the story progresses to take hold of the situation. This is not to say that he completely steals the picture, the rest of the cast are uniformly excellent. Wilford Brimley as Blair does a terrific job of the Doctor who is the only member of the group who realises the extent of the situation. A special mention to both Donald Moffat, Keith David and David Clennon who as Garry, Childs & Palmer add some welcome dark humour to the proceedings, Moffat's finest sequence just topping Clennon "You've got to be f**king kidding", something about being tied to a couch, you know the line. As the situation takes hold Carpenter and cinematographer Dean Cundey notch up the unease, as the camera follows down the corridors which may or may not be the view point of the being. Inventive sequence like the blood test sequence are brilliantly played by the cast, the feeling of paranoia key to making this work.
Of course Rob Bottin's still effective effects mark this out as not only a disturbing relentless work but also a visual feast of horror and eye popping delight of disgusting options to distort the human body that could only come from the mind of Bottin, if you watch the excellent retrospective on the Blu ray and DVD witness his sheer boyish enthusiasm for his creations, unfortunately with the advent of C.G.I this kind of technique
as become rare and as films most recently proved there is no replacement for practical effects and make up. The late Stan Winston also contributes to the famous dog kennel sequence, bought on board to take some of the load of the work of Bottin's shoulders. Hitchcock veteran Albert Whitlock provides some exceptional examples for the landscape in the alien spacecraft sequences of the film. The Thing is a great example of the craft of practical visual effects been utilised to large degree although not detracting from the experience and only enrich the narrative and drive the story on. Speaking of an ensemble this isn't just the actors, we are talking a crew who's all aspects deliver in all departments making this work so well, Ennio Morricone's subtle minimalist score is essential to investing the film with it's unrelenting unease, although it's not up there with is best work it's seem incredibly unfair that it was nominated for a Razzie for worst score when you consider the efforts composers accompany films with these days, if only Danny Elfman could have taken note of Ennio's score when providing Red Dragon with it's score, talk about sign posting everything before it happens, Morricone allows the film to breathe and lets the action play out in the same way that John Williams does with Jaws.
It would almost be unheard of today to see a film to be allowed the time to develop, it is nearly an hour in before the first real eye catching moment arrives although the film from its opening moment is gradually upping the dread and sheer hopelessness of the situation, it's no surprise that this failed on it's initial release these kind films are more typical of the 70's, the likes of Vietnam and Watergate looming over the films of that decade, the 80's saw a move to more positive vibe the end of the 70's had given birth to the blockbuster but the 80's ran with the concept, the nihilistic feel here must have felt incredibly out of place. Carpenter also remarked he'd not seen an all male ensemble for sometime, this aspect may have contributed to its reception in 1982.
Fast forward to nearly 30 years later and Universal green lighting a prequel which tells the story of the Norwegian camp which McCready and co happen upon and Mary Elizabeth Winstead is cast in the lead role, completely betraying Carpenters film and making no sense for the sake of guaranteeing bums on seats. Whereas such a studio born film will likely be forgotten this film nearly 30 years old continues to endure and captivate.audiences. I would only rate Ridley Scott's Alien over it, none of the subsequent sequels including Cameron's much celebrated entry hit the mark like it does, not unlike Bladerunner it influence is ingrained in cinema and like that film it took it's time to make it's mark but now it's here to stay.
* * * * * / * * * * *
I'm jealous. I keep seeing a blu-ray steelbook of it that I want on Amazon, and it appears to have more features than the normal blu-ray I currently own of it.
The atmosphere is just perfect and the tension never lets up, the old school effects still look pretty damn good also. Love the scene with the blood test, one of the tensest scenes ever put to film.
With an ongoing fan debate as to who really composed the score. ;-)
The only movie that scared me so badly I could not sleep. I was 11 at the time.
I know how you feel. I think the prequel would've been leagues better if they used anamatronics and the like and didn't rely so heavily on CGI.
It was a strange film. Was as much a remake as it was a prequel. Funny how the special effects and animatronics were far better in the original than the CGI was in the new film. If that isn't a lesson to those in Hollywood that CGI isn't always the best way to go, than I don't know what that is.
After all, we all knew that after suffering DAD ;-)
Definitely had the potential, agree use of cgi undermined certain scenes. Liked the references to the earlier movie the axe for example, they did try to create a similar atmosphere to the original movie. Though felt it ran out of steam at times. Though as remakes/prequels go it was pretty good.
Carpenter's musical collaborator in those years - Alan Howarth closed the case with the liner notes for his 2011 electronic re-recording of the whole score (using sample libraries and virtual instruments for both the orchestra and synths).
There's less than 42 minutes of music in the film itself,and 25% percent of that is music composed by Carpenter/Howarth at the last minute before dubbing. The later includes the following bits of underscore:
- Main Title/UFO flyover
- Autopsy
- Kennel attack
- Burning of Bennings
- Mac alone
- Synth overdubs over Morricone's "Contamination" (when Mac blows up the tentacled thing)
Plus various stingers.
Here's Ennio's side of the story:
"Carpenter flew to Rome and showed me his film," Morricone says. "He was very insistent, and I liked his movie, so I decided to do it. The thing is, though, we barely talked about what he had in mind. When I went to Los Angeles to record the score, I brought a tape along that contained some synthesizer music I had recorded here in Italy. It was really difficult for me to understand what kind of score he wanted, so I composed an array of totally different things, hoping he would find something of particular interest to him. Now, I have been in this business for 30 years and I think I know what my clients want, and guess what? He picked the piece that mostly resembled his own personal compositions. That is of course the main theme, which can be heard throughout the movie."
Confirmation of this claim comes on the film's soundtrack, which contains a great deal of music which never made it into the film. The main theme is virtually the sole composition heard during the film, and collectors consider the album a rather peculiar one as a result. "I wrote an hour of music for The Thing, and I just can't believe the way it was ignored," he frowns. "So when they asked me what to put on the album, I recovered all the stuff we had previously recorded. You can't sell a soundtrack album with one theme only; it's like cheating your potential buyers!"
Yes, The Thing is truly his masterpiece IMO, but Vampires & Escape From NY are also outstanding. I absolutely love his f**k PC attitude. But strangely enough, I end up watching Big Trouble In Little China & Escape From LA more than any of his others- they're just so damn funny! :))
Made me jump; made me squirm- can't ask for more than that from a vampire movie.
Couldn't agree more. Such a fantastic movie. Some serious ass gets kicked in that film.
Furthermore, Carpenter is one of "my" people. He loves Lovecraft perhaps even more than I do. And he shows it, with The Thing, Prince Of Darkness, In The Mouth Of Madness and to an extent even The Fog. Those first two are among my favourite works of his; The Thing is even more than that in my my book, it's an absolutely excellent horror film, one of the greatest ever made.
It goes without saying that Halloween is Carpenter's biggest hit, and it's a classic for sure. But let's not forget his intriguing though flawed giallo Eyes Of Laura Mars either, or Christine, his Snake Plissken films, or his delicious "off" ones, like Big Trouble, Vampires The Ward and Ghosts Of Mars. I'm even impressed with Elvis, Starman and more.
Every once in a while, I tend to revisit Carpenter's films, the ones he directed, produced, wrote and scored. Close to 30 titles! It took me a while to become a hardcore fan, but for a decade or so now, I have been. I profoundly respect and admire Carpenter.
Carpenter is the one who piqued my interest in movies. Siting in the dark on my own as a young teenager watching Assault On Precinct 13 for the first time was quite an experience! I loved it! The dialogue, the action and the oh so cool music!
As soon as i got my first VCR i rented all his films available and he became a firm favourite. Himself and Brian De Palma were my idols back then!
Carpenter to me made really interesting genre films which had great ideas and stories. He didn't seem to be making them for a quick buck.
His latter career output i've found lacking, but his body of work is still very impressive.
My personal favourites;
The Thing (His most accomplished film. Everything just works perfectly.)
Halloween (The cinematography, the music and slow build. Just wow!)
Assault On Precinct 13 (Loved it as a kid and still love it now)
Escape From New York (A flawed but ambitious project that i just love. Wonderful characters and dialogue. Also has a seriously good set up.)
The Fog (Not perfect, but a really cool ghost story with another great score)#
Dark Star (Really funny and amazing what was achieved on a tiny budget)
Prince Of Darkness (personally i think this is his most underrated film. A fascinating set up with some very original ideas. One of his best endings!)
In The Mouth Of Madness (Another very underrated film. I must admit i only started to really appreciate this on a re-watch)
So glad i got to see him perform in concert last year!
An excellent list, which I would probably go along with, apart the last one, which I admit I haven't seen!
Assault On Precinct 13 and The Thing I have seen more times than is healthy. When I saw the latter in the cinema, I came away dazed, stunning atmosphere and as for Rob Bottins effects!..Wow!
What did you think of 'Christine'?
My favourites:
But heck, I love them all: Elvis, Dark Star, Big Trouble, Starman, They Live, ... The only truly disappointing ones, for me, are Memoirs, LA and Ghosts Of Mars.
Christine is a perfectly well made and entertaining film, but as an adaptation of the book it's kind of a pointless empty excercise. Same with the adaptations of Cujo, Firestarter and lord knows how many others...